GUC Use > Banging Head vs. Wall (Rant)

Old Jun 21, 2017, 4:40 pm
  #31  
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That's going to be one of my next steps, although IIRC you can check the ticket there and not the reservation.

I'll also need to do something to get the KLM PNR as one receipt says ARPT rather than OPEN for that segment, with no seat assignment.
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Old Jun 21, 2017, 4:43 pm
  #32  
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Originally Posted by MSPeconomist
That's going to be one of my next steps, although IIRC you can check the ticket there and not the reservation.

I'll also need to do something to get the KLM PNR as one receipt says ARPT rather than OPEN for that segment, with no seat assignment.
I think KLM segments always say ARPT.

KLM.com also accepts Delta PNRs in my experience (and then displays the KLM PNR).
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Old Jun 21, 2017, 4:48 pm
  #33  
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Originally Posted by bgriff
I think Saudia shut down the functionality to see other airlines' bookings.
Nope -- it's definitely still there. I've only ever used it for DL 006 issued tickets and it always has worked.

I haven't tried any others because lately I haven't had any other tickets issued by other airlines.
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Old Jun 21, 2017, 5:22 pm
  #34  
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Originally Posted by bgriff
I think KLM segments always say ARPT.

KLM.com also accepts Delta PNRs in my experience (and then displays the KLM PNR).
Correct on both. Also DL PNR will work on AF.com
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Old Jun 21, 2017, 5:23 pm
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I ran into a similar issue a few months ago trying to use GUCs to upgrade JFK-AMS-DXB and DXB-AMS-EWR, with all but the AMS-EWR segments DL-coded/KL-operated. After 6 phone calls to the DM line, I did some digging around on FT and found an old thread complaining about frustration using GUCs where someone suggested calling Singapore reservations (you can find the number on DL.com).

Sure enough, with just one phone call (and some time on hold), the agent understood my request and was able to apply the GUC to the KL flights where Z class was available. Might be worth a shot!
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Old Jun 21, 2017, 6:41 pm
  #36  
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I just checked my 006- ticket number on the Saudia website and it looks OK to me, with all O booking class for the business class segments. From this, I would assume that the ticket has been reissued, I hope successfully.

My receipt on delta.dumb is showing all seat assignments again, including for the ARPT segment. My next internet exercise will be to try the DL PNR on the KLM website and see whether there's any agreement about what I have.
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Old Jun 22, 2017, 1:17 am
  #37  
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It gets better!

First, glad to know I'm not alone on this. Second, here's another endorsement of HUCA.

So I realized after the ticket was reissued that the first leg of my return which had been a DL-codeshare was changed to a KL-coded flight in the agent's attempt to apply the GUC. I called back (now 24 hours after initial issue) and explained to an agent what had happened. Eleven minutes later, she had it all fixed and the GUC applied for the whole return trip back. As she said, lots of people just don't know how to use the Deltamatic system to get the GUCs confirmed. She was aghast when I told her I'd been on the phone for 2+ hours the day prior.

I suppose the moral of the story here is, we must persist in order to get the full value of GUCs!
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Old Jun 22, 2017, 1:27 am
  #38  
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Originally Posted by CGNC
It gets better!

First, glad to know I'm not alone on this. Second, here's another endorsement of HUCA.

So I realized after the ticket was reissued that the first leg of my return which had been a DL-codeshare was changed to a KL-coded flight in the agent's attempt to apply the GUC. I called back (now 24 hours after initial issue) and explained to an agent what had happened. Eleven minutes later, she had it all fixed and the GUC applied for the whole return trip back. As she said, lots of people just don't know how to use the Deltamatic system to get the GUCs confirmed. She was aghast when I told her I'd been on the phone for 2+ hours the day prior.

I suppose the moral of the story here is, we must persist in order to get the full value of GUCs!
Yeah, IME it's always been this way with DL. You need to know what your elite benefits are supposed to be, including the latest version of all the rules and you need to know how to look for signs that the transaction has or has not been done correctly. It helps to make things as easy as possible for the phone agent (and you will need to call!) by checking schedules before calling and gifuring out alternatives, including creative routing possibilities, in advance. Some agents aren't very willing to do lots of seemingly pointless checks for inventory, but if you give them a smaller number of alternatives to check, it can be easier for everyone.

In retrospect, my biggest mistakes in the process have been not following my gut and doing a HUCA when I've skeptical about an agent; at best, it's a waste of my time as the inventory I need might be rapidly disappearing. Also, if CVG answers, hang up ASAP and try again.
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Old Jun 22, 2017, 1:42 am
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Originally Posted by ruckzac
Keep in mind, of course, that it's highly advantageous to book a DL-marketed/KL-operated flight rather than a KL-marketed/KL-operated flight because only Y/B/M fares can be upgraded for the latter (all fare classes except E are upgradeable on the former).
Well, I guess I'm glad I stumbled upon this thread and trudged through it as I assume this just recently changed... just in January of this year I did two KL-coded (V class) KL-operated US-EU tickets and upgraded them to Z inventory using DL GUCs. The process was shockingly easy actually. It was so painless that I had tagged that as the "ideal usage" pattern for future DL-GUC redemptions.

At least I educated myself here, and as usual, it seems things have gotten worse .

Last edited by HeadInTheClouds; Jun 22, 2017 at 1:53 am Reason: Add that KL flights were V class.
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Old Jun 22, 2017, 1:48 am
  #40  
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A major advantage of trying to upgrade KLM marketed and KLM operated segments is that you can see business class upgrade inventory on EF. This includes the ability to search a range of dates at once and to save such searches for later use. It's very slick and EF even reminds you of the correct inventory you want.

For DL segments, we must call DL and be at the mercy of phone agents who might be experts at this and know exactly what to do or might be clueless but adamant.
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Old Jun 22, 2017, 2:16 am
  #41  
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Originally Posted by bj27
Good summary.

Now we just need DL IT to figure out what the heck is going on with using GUCs on VS.
Or care first.
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Old Jun 22, 2017, 9:22 am
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Originally Posted by HeadInTheClouds
Well, I guess I'm glad I stumbled upon this thread and trudged through it as I assume this just recently changed... just in January of this year I did two KL-coded (V class) KL-operated US-EU tickets and upgraded them to Z inventory using DL GUCs. The process was shockingly easy actually. It was so painless that I had tagged that as the "ideal usage" pattern for future DL-GUC redemptions.

At least I educated myself here, and as usual, it seems things have gotten worse .
Yes - they changed the rules! This is what the site said in late Nov 2016:
Originally Posted by Delta, Nov 2016
Valid on all KLM-marketed, KLM-operated flights from published Main Cabin fares in Y, B, M, S, H, Q, K, L, U, T, X, or V class to Business Class.
This is what the site said in early Feb 2017:
Originally Posted by Delta, Feb 2017
Valid on all KLM-marketed, KLM-operated flights from published Main Cabin fares in Y, B, or M class to Business Class.
Originally Posted by MSPeconomist
A major advantage of trying to upgrade KLM marketed and KLM operated segments is that you can see business class upgrade inventory on EF. This includes the ability to search a range of dates at once and to save such searches for later use. It's very slick and EF even reminds you of the correct inventory you want.

For DL segments, we must call DL and be at the mercy of phone agents who might be experts at this and know exactly what to do or might be clueless but adamant.
What you say is misleading for two reasons:
  • It ignores that fact that you can now only upgrade Y, B, or M fares on KL-marketed, KL-operated segments
  • It implies that you can't identify upgrade inventory via ExpertFlyer for DL-marketed, KL-operated segments (you can, simply by finding Z inventory on the KL-marketed equivalent flight)

So, to recap:
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Old Jun 22, 2017, 9:41 am
  #43  
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Originally Posted by HeadInTheClouds
Well, I guess I'm glad I stumbled upon this thread and trudged through it as I assume this just recently changed... just in January of this year I did two KL-coded (V class) KL-operated US-EU tickets and upgraded them to Z inventory using DL GUCs. The process was shockingly easy actually. It was so painless that I had tagged that as the "ideal usage" pattern for future DL-GUC redemptions.

At least I educated myself here, and as usual, it seems things have gotten worse .
Honestly I don't think it's that bad, especially if you know to look up space on ExpertFlyer, since half of the complaints seem to come from DL agents giving bad information about whether upgrades are even available.

The other main challenge is whether KLM Z space is available at all, and possible complications due to married segment availability, and especially how married segment availability works across mixed DL/KL-operated segments. But if you find a routing that's all-KL-operated and shows Z space on ExpertFlyer, it still seems to work pretty well, occasional HUCA requirements notwithstanding.
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Old Jun 22, 2017, 9:48 am
  #44  
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Could O be relevant when married segments apply with the DL segments using OY? I'm thinking of my own ticket here.
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Old Jun 22, 2017, 9:55 am
  #45  
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Originally Posted by MSPeconomist
Could O be relevant when married segments apply with the DL segments using OY? I'm thinking of my own ticket here.
EF does specify that Z is for GUC upgrades on KL while O is for some other kind of upgrades, which may mean mileage upgrades.


My more general observation on married segments is that when I was booking, I saw (not for my dates, but for other dates) lots of NYC-AMS-CPT options where the routings with KL-operated JFK-AMS flights showed 0 Z on both sectors, but the routings with DL-operated JFK/EWR-AMS flights showed available Z space on both sectors. But it's not clear if that's "real" space since you're not actually booking Z space on the DL sector, you're booking OY space, but does the married segment logic still create Z availability on the KL sector? And if it doesn't, does Z availability for an independent AMS-CPT trip govern upgrade availability on that sector?
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