GUC Use > Banging Head vs. Wall (Rant)
Jun 21, 2017, 9:22 am
#17
Join Date: Aug 2005
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I am having same problem even with a delta operated direct flight. Ticket is sold by AF with AF flight numbers, so phone agents told me I need to have YBM fares, which I think is wrong. But if rules are not clear enough for phone agents, only way seems to be is to try in person at a Delta ticket office or at skyclub.
Jun 21, 2017, 10:58 am
#18
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Jun 21, 2017, 11:10 am
#19
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Are you sure that's true? I tried to upgrade a TATL itinerary a few months ago where there were two DL-operated TATL segments, one KL-marketed, one DL-marketed. The agent told me that the KL-marketed one would have to be YBM but that we could upgrade the DL-marketed one, which makes at least some sense to me, and this agent was otherwise very good so I would give her better-than-average chances of knowing what she was talking about. But the public rules don't say specifically what happens for DL-operated, AF/KL/VS-marketed.
Jun 21, 2017, 11:13 am
#20
Join Date: Oct 2012
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Are you sure that's true? I tried to upgrade a TATL itinerary a few months ago where there were two DL-operated TATL segments, one KL-marketed, one DL-marketed. The agent told me that the KL-marketed one would have to be YBM but that we could upgrade the DL-marketed one, which makes at least some sense to me, and this agent was otherwise very good so I would give her better-than-average chances of knowing what she was talking about. But the public rules don't say specifically what happens for DL-operated, AF/KL/VS-marketed.
IIRC there are reports of agents having to reissue the tickets with DL flight numbers to get it to work correctly.
Jun 21, 2017, 1:05 pm
#21
Join Date: Dec 2014
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Ignoring differences in the hard and soft products (which of course vary by aircraft), I actually think DL-marketed/KL-operated flights are the optimal way to use a GUC:
- KL-operated flights upgraded to Z typically yield a 150% MQM bonus because the flights are re-coded to KL flight numbers when the ticket is re-issued.
- KL upgrade inventory can easily be searched via Expert Flyer whereas you need to call Delta in order to find OY (previously OP) inventory. Whether Z inventory is available is irrelevant to whether upgrade inventory is available on DL-operated flights (regardless of who is the marketing carrier).
Jun 21, 2017, 1:59 pm
#22
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flyerCO is correct; for KL-operated flights, Z inventory needs to be available for the KL flight number in order to confirm an upgrade regardless of if the ticket is marketed by KL or DL. Keep in mind, of course, that it's highly advantageous to book a DL-marketed/KL-operated flight rather than a KL-marketed/KL-operated flight because only Y/B/M fares can be upgraded for the latter (all fare classes except E are upgradeable on the former).
Ignoring differences in the hard and soft products (which of course vary by aircraft), I actually think DL-marketed/KL-operated flights are the optimal way to use a GUC:
Ignoring differences in the hard and soft products (which of course vary by aircraft), I actually think DL-marketed/KL-operated flights are the optimal way to use a GUC:
- KL-operated flights upgraded to Z typically yield a 150% MQM bonus because the flights are re-coded to KL flight numbers when the ticket is re-issued.
- KL upgrade inventory can easily be searched via Expert Flyer whereas you need to call Delta in order to find OY (previously OP) inventory. Whether Z inventory is available is irrelevant to whether upgrade inventory is available on DL-operated flights (regardless of who is the marketing carrier).
Now we just need DL IT to figure out what the heck is going on with using GUCs on VS.
Jun 21, 2017, 2:05 pm
#23
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Not 100% sure what you mean by this, but based on 4-5 anecdotal cases I've checked, when a KL-coded, DL-operated flight shows Z available on EF, it has always also been available for OY with DL. So for transatlantic GUC use on DL flights, you can make some use of EF to find space and just confirm with DL before making firm plans. Unfortunately this doesn't seem to work for DL flights in other regions.
But yes the 150% MQMs, for as long as that benefit lasts, makes redeeming GUCs on KL fairly attractive.
Jun 21, 2017, 3:23 pm
#24
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 1,880
Not 100% sure what you mean by this, but based on 4-5 anecdotal cases I've checked, when a KL-coded, DL-operated flight shows Z available on EF, it has always also been available for OY with DL. So for transatlantic GUC use on DL flights, you can make some use of EF to find space and just confirm with DL before making firm plans. Unfortunately this doesn't seem to work for DL flights in other regions.
If that's the case, then one could find OY inventory by searching for Z fares on DL-operated, AF/KL/VS-marketed flights. However, it's my understanding that while Z inventory with codeshare partners may sometimes coincide with OY inventory, it doesn't always and therefore isn't a reliable way to find OY inventory.
Last edited by rucksack; Jun 21, 2017 at 3:29 pm
Jun 21, 2017, 3:30 pm
#25
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Are you saying that, as a rule, when Z inventory is being marketed through Delta's transatlantic codeshare partners (i.e., AF, KL, VS), OY inventory is also available?
If that's the case, then one could find OY inventory by searching for Z fares on DL-operated, AF/KL/VS-marketed flights. However, it's my understanding that while Z inventory with codeshare partners may sometimes coincide with OY inventory, it doesn't always and therefore isn't a reliable way to find OY inventory.
If that's the case, then one could find OY inventory by searching for Z fares on DL-operated, AF/KL/VS-marketed flights. However, it's my understanding that while Z inventory with codeshare partners may sometimes coincide with OY inventory, it doesn't always and therefore isn't a reliable way to find OY inventory.
Jun 21, 2017, 3:39 pm
#26
Join Date: Oct 2012
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Are you saying that, as a rule, when Z inventory is being marketed through Delta's transatlantic codeshare partners (i.e., AF, KL, VS), OY inventory is also available?
If that's the case, then one could find OY inventory by searching for Z fares on DL-operated, AF/KL/VS-marketed flights. However, it's my understanding that while Z inventory with codeshare partners may sometimes coincide with OY inventory, it doesn't always and therefore isn't a reliable way to find OY inventory.
If that's the case, then one could find OY inventory by searching for Z fares on DL-operated, AF/KL/VS-marketed flights. However, it's my understanding that while Z inventory with codeshare partners may sometimes coincide with OY inventory, it doesn't always and therefore isn't a reliable way to find OY inventory.
Jun 21, 2017, 4:04 pm
#27
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I just ticketed an itinerary where the return portion is a M class fare upgraded with (the agent said, but I can't verify this yet) 30,000 miles. The TATL segment is DL operated and DL marketed so that it books into OY as expected, but the KLM operated and KLM coded segment is now showing as O class. Seats have been assigned. I'm going to watch this like a hawk to make sure that the agent didn't somehow sell me a separate business class award ticket for the KLM segment. In the meantime, I'm wondering how much to worry. The ticket hasn't been reissued yet and I can't see how many miles might have beeen taken from my DL FF account. The whole process only took about a half hour on the phone with a DM agent.
Of course there's no hope of seeing the fare calculation either.
Of course there's no hope of seeing the fare calculation either.
Last edited by MSPeconomist; Jul 7, 2017 at 7:59 am Reason: Typos
Jun 21, 2017, 4:06 pm
#28
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For the KLM flights I looked at, EF shows both Z inventory (with a number of seats) and O inventory (marked as yes). I seee lots of zeros for Z on flights saying yes to O (classic business class saver award space).
Jun 21, 2017, 4:35 pm
#29
Join Date: Oct 2012
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I just ticketed an itinerary where the return portion is a M class fare upgraded with (the agent said, but I can't verify this yer) 30,000 miles. The TATL segment is DL operated and DL marketed so that it books into OY as expected, but the KLM operated and KLM coded segment is not showing as O class. Seats have been assigned. I'm going to watch this like a hawk to make sure that the agent didn't somehow sell me a separate business class award ticket for the KLM segment. In the meantime, I'm wondering how much to worry. The ticket hasn't been reissued yet and I can't see how many miles might have beeen taken from my DL FF account. The whole process only took about a half hour on the phone with a DM agent.
Of course there's no hope of seeing the fare calculation either.
Of course there's no hope of seeing the fare calculation either.