met19

I am flying San Diego to Basel and then AMS-SAN. I can choose from different metal and routing/transfers. I am planning on flying in first/business.

Wondering what peoples thoughts over different metal/transfers.

Thanks for the info

3Cforme

All Delta long-haul Business seats are lie-flat but there are variations. The seat will depend on the aircraft. The aircraft will depend on the routing (and travel date).

MSPeconomist

However, all DL wide body international aircraft have 100% direct aisle access in D1.

pbarnette

Book DL so you are guaranteed aisle access and flat beds. Some might argue that AF is better if on a flat bed plane, but I prefer DL service. KL is inferior to both AF and DL, fitting with their status in the AFKL universe as the mid-tier brand.

KDCAflyer

My personal ranking is DL, KL, AF. I do not like the attitudes of most AF crews I've encountered, and CDG still isn't fun, despite the improvements made over the last few years.

MSPeconomist

Yes, but AMS has become significantly less fun recently, due to the reconfiguration of security there. The gate security checks before flights to the USA worked well until AMS decided to "fix it."

flyerCO

Agreed. DL due to 100% all aisle, flat beds. KLM due to service (plus who doesn't like adding another delft blue house to their collection). AF last due to seat, pricing, and attitude. Even when saying "thank you" they made it seem like they were scolding you. I liked food the best on AF, followed by DL and last on KLM.

flyerCO

How is it less fun? Less security is always a plus IMO. Plus no reclearing on flights from approved countries.

KDCAflyer

Yeah I hated the gate security at AMS. Not being able to take water bottles through really sucked. It also gave pax less flexibility.

pbarnette

I hate them. Just another cheap trinket to clutter the house. I finally prevailed upon my wife to throw away maybe 30 of them when we moved.

emrdoc

Threw them out??? You should have at least sold them!


http://www.ebay.com/bhp/klm-house

NOLAnwGOLD

I avoid AF cuz they are so prone to strike and I just want to make sure that I get there!

Bowgie

In terms of just in-flight comfort and food, I'd rank

AF flatbed>Delta>AF angled>KLM

AF flatbeds are the A380 and reconfigured 777
AF angle are old 777's with 2-3-2 across seating

Last I looked, KLM was still flying 747 combi's (old seats) AMS-LAX.

Coming from Europe, you can connect in SLC (flying Delta nonstop) or LAX (flying AF or KLM nonstop) to maximize the fraction of the trip in biz-class versus biz-class plus a long domestic first class segment on Delta.

If your travel is in May, I'd be inclined to avoid LAX because of the chaos of Delta's planned move from terminal 5 to terminal 3+4.

BenA

I've flown a lot of AF/DL/KL over the last few months so am well positioned to make some comparisons here.

If you can get the AF "BEST" seat, they are my top pick. The catering is most to my taste, the wine is consistently excellent and well chosen, and despite many people's reports to the contrary I find their cabin crew to be universally pleasant and attentive. It's a more distant and professional service than DL, but I actually like that style and find it less intrusive. And the BEST seat is amazing - tons of personal storage and space, and aisle access for everyone. The IFE is spot on and they even have nice removable dividers if you are stuck in the center section. Really a fantastic experience all around in the air. (CDG is still a pain and the ground staff largely are awful, but the lounges are a notable bright spot.)

Next best is DL. Great food and wine, definitely in the same league as AF but a little less consistent. Pick the hub in europe with the better times if you need connecting flights, with a slight preference to AMS. Seats are great on the A330 and acceptable on the 767. (Definite preference for the 330 if you can find it, which shouldn't be a problem to europe.)

Next best is... changing your dates and times to get one of the above options.

After that, you get to decide what you care about. If it's service/food/catering, the decision is easy - book AF even if you're stuck in NEV4 seats. The lack of aisle access and middle seats in business are inexcusable, but you can st least hope for an equipment swap.

KLM is the obvious last place finisher here. People like to throw around hyperbole about food being "inedible" or wine being "undrinkable" when describing crappy products onboard, and while I won't go that far, the only time I would have chosen a KLM meal again was a special case (AMS-KIX with a special japanese meal catered by a restaurant in AMS). The price point on their wines is notably lower than the other two options too, to the point where I gave up and switched to cocktails on my last flight. My personal theory is that the delft houses take up a substantial part of the catering budget and affect all the other elements of the service. Even the amenity kits are trashy and sparse - the kits are a weird shape with poor materials, and the contents are almost indistinguishable from a Delta Comfort+ kit, except you can tell because the KLM toothpaste is a knockoff Chinese brand that tastes weird rather than colgate.

But KLM has one redeeming quality - they have been renovating many of their cabins to New World Business Class seats. If it's a 787, that's their best product because it's a copy of the AF best seat - definitely worth putting up with the catering for if the times are more convenient. The other new WBC is okay but not as good since it's 2-2-2, so only really attractive if you are a couple or seated in the middle section. The older unrenovated planes (A330 especially) are a total travesty - I'd literally book coach rather than wasting miles or money on that product.

Just my opinionated $0.02.

BenA

I don't believe the AF A380 has their new BEST lieflat product - I think it's still on the NEV3/4 179 degree almost-flat 2-2-2 product unfortunately.

IIRC, all the new 787s and almost all the 777-200s have BEST. The 777-300s are a mixed bag and you may or may not get it, so it's a risky booking if equipment swaps occur. Everything else is an older seat right now