BenA

I'm curious why you think this. Other than sometimes lengthy waits at passport control when entering Schengen without a priority queue, the new security reconfiguration seems like an overall win all around: anyone flying between Schengen, the CTA, the US and Canada no longer needs to clear security at all! And if you originate in AMS or somehow need to clear security anyway, the new filter setup is way, way, way better - the multiple loading zones make it stress free and borderline pleasant to go through.

I guess I could complain a little about the silly D1/E1 interview, but they've done a good job of placing those kiosks all around (including outside the lounge). And in the old system, you still had to complete that interview anyway...

dilbertsdaddy

AF seats on 1 X 2 X 1 are the best of the lot for sure.

DL has all direct aisle but not all of the seats are great.

KL 2 X 2 X 2 is ok if you have the middle.

You have to be wary of AF 2 X 3 X 2, no real good options on that one.

I think DL has the worst service of the 3. Always professional, always nice, but good service is not a description that comes to mind when thinking of D1. I think the KL crews are great, and honestly, AF is good too. DL international crews dial it in (most of the time).

I believe the food is highly dependent on the city catering, but in general the main courses on DL fall flat, everything else is OK. I just had the best breakfast I have ever had on an airplane in 35 years on KL.

Just my opinion....don't flame me.

flyerCO

KLM 747 don't have the old WBC seats. They were updated two years ago I believe. The KLM A330 is what is to be avoided. They pack the seats in. AFAIK no other airline puts as many in J on an A330. The 777 is standard 2-2-2 seating using the newer WBC seats. Of course the 787 is the best with the newest 1-2-1 herringbone seating.

SDQBound

My Ranking goes as follows:

Seat Comfort: AF (BEST), KL (787) DL (A330, 77L), DL (Any other equipment), KL (772/77W), Any other AF.

Food: Delta (Quantity), AF (Taste, except for the weird snack served before arriving to JFK), KL

Staff: DL (miles ahead from the rest), KL, AF

Lounge: AF, DL, KL

As MSPEconomist said, transiting through AMS is not as fun as it used to be.

met19

I appreciate all the replies- I won't be traveling till October. Amazing how much opinion is on flights/beds/food/staff.

I am thinking LAX or SLC for maximizing a TATL business seat. Obviously going to fly out of AMS on the return (no reason to "transfer in Paris just to get AF). So on the return it will prob be either DL or KLM

The real question is the outbound leg where I will have to transfer in Europe at either Paris or AMS. I could fly any of the three.

Thanks.

dcadwell

Wife and I are booked on JFK-CDG-NAP-CDG-JFK AF business in just under 2 weeks. JFK-CDG is a BEST 777, whereas CDG-JFK is a NEV4 A380. I'll make it a point to return to this thread with a thorough description for you as it relates to food, service, transfer in CDG, etc.

met19

thanks

Grouchy

1. Until they get the new WBC seats try to avoid KLM A330s at all costs . If you have choice try to avoid the non 'BEST' AF planes & KL 787s (small WBC seats).

2. Schiphol has currently some serious issues.
With 10000 slots moved from the winter to the summer and travel season starting every 'peakday' at Schiphol there where long lines; you know the ones who last 100 minutes when you don't have priority. It got plenty of news coverage around here.

If they don't fix this by July, 3 hours will probably be very optimistic.

met19

So apparently there is change in the past week for the October flight schedules. Previously I was able to connect outbound in Paris to Basel (so I could use AF). HOP moved their BSL flights to Orly. I was kinda hoping to get on the 380 in LAX...c'est la vie. But now the reality is really AMS both ways which means DL or KLM. Theoretically I could fly in to CDG and train to Basel through French countryside.

met19

I was going to fly in first/business to get priority and sky pesos

3Cforme

WBC refers to World Business Class, KLM's trademark for long-haul Business. KLM has no international first, nor does Delta. Delta calls its long-haul business cabin Delta One.

ralph4878

Flew KL's "new" business class for the first time last month on a 777-200 IAD-AMS-IAD. I was pleasantly surprised by how comfortable their new seats are and the layout of the space. The service, too, was quite good: FAs were authentically friendly, patient with passengers, and efficient. It was obvious that the plane had been overhauled as there were some leftover vestiges from its earlier days: the toilets were definitely old, as were the galleys.

The one thing I did not like about the seats was the 2-2-2 arrangement. I sat in the middle pair of seats so as to have aisle access and no one jumping over me to get out of his or her seat, so there were no issues, but had I been on the aisle with a neighbor in the window seat, it would certainly have been disruptive to have him or her jumping over me. Also, the aisles are pretty narrow on these planes, so being on the aisle leaves one open to bumps by carts and passing FAs and passengers.

Immigration/transfer in AMS can be beastly, and the KLM lounges are massive and packed to the gills, but overall I wouldn't say that AMS is any worse than, say, LHR, IAD, CDG, or JFK...

Overall, however, I was very pleased with my experience in KLM business class. I do not fly DL (for one, I bank my miles with Alaska, and for two, I don't think their hard products are that great; I have also not had great experiences overall with them), but I do find AF's newer business product to be pleasant. I do most of my international flying on AA, BA, EY, and AF, but I will look at KL's pricing from now on when shopping for future flights.

mayhem

Yikes, a lot of good info but also some outdated comments. Both KL and AF have significantly improved their hard product (777 on AF and 787, 777, 744 on KL all got so much better).

To begin, your transfer in CDG to HOP could have been a very painful transfer. Have done it and it takes for ever with a bus ride and a possible security re-clearing, I hate transferring in CDG, though AF has better food, FAs you need to appreciate in some way, and better layout on the 777.

Now to your point, KL or DL:
+ for KL: 787 is nice, 744 is about to go out forever and has a good WBC but 2-2 config, 777 is good but indeed 2-2-2. FAs are very very friendly, food is quite far below DL and AF. IFE is also very good
- for KL: risk of A330, 2-2 configs that get you a seatmate
+ for DL: guaranteed aisle access, friendly crews, decent food, sundaes.
- on DL are the small IFEs

Take a look at the equipment but KL is worth a try.

KDCAflyer

I think that KL's food is underrated here. I'm a simple person, so I enjoy their beef dishes, and they generally do a good job with chicken too. Sure the meal service won't blow you away, but it's consistently good. DL's can be better, but it's often inconsistent. I've had plenty of D1 meals that can't touch KL.

mayhem

Well, I'm being harsh by comparing it to AF, and DL in some way. That said, happy to post you a picture from the snack they offered which is a pretty pathetic burger which I compare to a Mcdo $ slice. Happy to post the pic.

Wines were ok. Think the KL lounge has been most consistent in food quality (vs. DL which goes up and down in quality offering) and AF which is quite crowded typically.

But still, Taittinger, foie-gras, ... AF makes a statement out of its food.