Looking for compensation
Mar 23, 2017, 4:57 pm
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 17
Looking for compensation
Hello. Sorry if posting in the wrong area,
Does anyone have a contactable contact for Delta please? I've been writing to them about an ongoing issue and even involved the complaints body ( CAA) yet they are refusing to award the correct compensation and have ignored most correspondence. I've even written to their chairman Ed Bastian. Also Heidi Gould and a few others, but nothing back. Please see the email to delta from the CAA. Im appalled at their behaviour!!
Thank you for your patience with us while we have investigated your complaint about the disruption of flight DL1 on 28th November 2016.
As you may be aware, the relevant legislation covering this matter is EC Regulation 261/2004, which establishes common rules on compensation and assistance to passengers in the event of denied boarding and of cancellation or long delay of flights (the “Regulation”). This provides that compensation is only payable if the disruption is inherent in the normal operation of an airline and was not due to “extraordinary circumstances” which could not have been avoided by the airline even if all reasonable measures had been taken.
We have contacted Delta Airlines about your complaint and asked them to reassess it. In the reassessment process, if Delta Airlines still maintains that you were not denied boarding, they must provide information to the CAA to justify their position.
After we initially wrote to Delta Airlines, they informed the CAA that:
“The claimant was not denied boarding. The claimant had a reservation with VS. His claim needs to be addressed to that airline.“
I could see from your complaint that your flight was operated by Delta Airlines and under applicable legislation, it is the operating carrier that takes responsibility for denied boarding. In light of this I wrote to the airline to say:
"Under Regulation EC 261/2004 it is the operating carrier that is required to pay compensation and not the airline the reservation is with. Therefore, as the flight was operated by Delta Airlines, please could Delta Airlines explain how the passenger was not denied boarding or confirm if you will be paying compensation."
I regret to inform you that, despite a number of attempts, Delta Airlines has not responded to us with the information we need to assess the defence relied upon by them in your case.
The CAA receives complaints and assists passengers in resolving them under the Regulation. However, we do not have the legal power either to force the airlines to respond to us, or to impose a solution which is binding on the airline. We are not an ombudsman scheme, and any view that we express on a particular matter is not legally binding.
In the absence of any information from the airline to justify its position, we have proceeded to consider your complaint based on the information provided by you. Based on that information and the airline’s non-response, the CAA’s opinion is that compensation would be payable in your case.
As stated above, although the CAA’s opinion is that compensation is payable in your case, the CAA is not able to impose this decision on Delta Airlines. Therefore, if you do wish to proceed with your complaint, you will need to decide whether you wish to issue a court claim. You can find consumer advice on taking a case to court at the following link:
https://www.gov.uk/make-court-claim-for-money
If you do issue court claim, you may make reference to the CAA’s opinion above in support of your claim. However, you should be aware that Delta Airlines may provide further information in the course of the court proceedings to justify its position.
We are very sorry that, despite the time taken to get to the bottom of your case, we are unable to help you further in this matter.
Yours sincerely,
Nicolaus O'Hara
Consumer Affairs Officer
Does anyone have a contactable contact for Delta please? I've been writing to them about an ongoing issue and even involved the complaints body ( CAA) yet they are refusing to award the correct compensation and have ignored most correspondence. I've even written to their chairman Ed Bastian. Also Heidi Gould and a few others, but nothing back. Please see the email to delta from the CAA. Im appalled at their behaviour!!
Thank you for your patience with us while we have investigated your complaint about the disruption of flight DL1 on 28th November 2016.
As you may be aware, the relevant legislation covering this matter is EC Regulation 261/2004, which establishes common rules on compensation and assistance to passengers in the event of denied boarding and of cancellation or long delay of flights (the “Regulation”). This provides that compensation is only payable if the disruption is inherent in the normal operation of an airline and was not due to “extraordinary circumstances” which could not have been avoided by the airline even if all reasonable measures had been taken.
We have contacted Delta Airlines about your complaint and asked them to reassess it. In the reassessment process, if Delta Airlines still maintains that you were not denied boarding, they must provide information to the CAA to justify their position.
After we initially wrote to Delta Airlines, they informed the CAA that:
“The claimant was not denied boarding. The claimant had a reservation with VS. His claim needs to be addressed to that airline.“
I could see from your complaint that your flight was operated by Delta Airlines and under applicable legislation, it is the operating carrier that takes responsibility for denied boarding. In light of this I wrote to the airline to say:
"Under Regulation EC 261/2004 it is the operating carrier that is required to pay compensation and not the airline the reservation is with. Therefore, as the flight was operated by Delta Airlines, please could Delta Airlines explain how the passenger was not denied boarding or confirm if you will be paying compensation."
I regret to inform you that, despite a number of attempts, Delta Airlines has not responded to us with the information we need to assess the defence relied upon by them in your case.
The CAA receives complaints and assists passengers in resolving them under the Regulation. However, we do not have the legal power either to force the airlines to respond to us, or to impose a solution which is binding on the airline. We are not an ombudsman scheme, and any view that we express on a particular matter is not legally binding.
In the absence of any information from the airline to justify its position, we have proceeded to consider your complaint based on the information provided by you. Based on that information and the airline’s non-response, the CAA’s opinion is that compensation would be payable in your case.
As stated above, although the CAA’s opinion is that compensation is payable in your case, the CAA is not able to impose this decision on Delta Airlines. Therefore, if you do wish to proceed with your complaint, you will need to decide whether you wish to issue a court claim. You can find consumer advice on taking a case to court at the following link:
https://www.gov.uk/make-court-claim-for-money
If you do issue court claim, you may make reference to the CAA’s opinion above in support of your claim. However, you should be aware that Delta Airlines may provide further information in the course of the court proceedings to justify its position.
We are very sorry that, despite the time taken to get to the bottom of your case, we are unable to help you further in this matter.
Yours sincerely,
Nicolaus O'Hara
Consumer Affairs Officer
Mar 24, 2017, 1:50 am
#2
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At this point you need to either hire a lawyer or one of the many EU261 payment companies. While the CAA letter is not binding, it's provides a level of support. The EU261 payment claim companies will likely be cheaper and collect a % of the payment.
BTW What exactly happened?
BTW What exactly happened?
Mar 24, 2017, 2:04 am
#3
Original Poster
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 17
Thank you for your reply. Long story but here goes
We booked a birthday holiday for my aunts 60th and 70th birthday.We booked via lastminute.com on what we thought was a Virgin Atlantic flight, which turned out to be on a Delta aircraft, that wasn't an issue. We tried to complete the online check-in the day before, unfortunately, I only could check in 3 out of 4 passengers. The website advised us to see a check-in agent on the day of travel. I knew there was an issue, so I called Virgin immediately. Virgin reservation centre told us that the date of birth for My aunt was not in , they corrected it and advised that we could carry on and check in. (A few months ago we had to pay an extra fee for a name change, which we were told was done, and we had a receipt of �46 for .) On arrival at the airport the next day the passengers were told that the name change had not been done, even though we had been informed the night before, that all names, ESTA and passport details were correct and complete. The check in agent assumed that the ESTA was not done for my cousin (even though we had shown her the confirmation number), by the time she had decided that everything was in order, the flight had closed and we were told we were too late, (although we had arrived at the airport at 23 hours before )We were also told that Virgin, were in 'meltdown' as they were dealing with a new system, so I suspect that the check-in system had let us down, and the name change issue was just a smoke screen. The manager refused to speak to me on the phone, but said that only 2 of the party could standby for the next flight, however, My aunt couldn't travel until the name corresponded with her passport! My aunt is 70 years old, she's never stepped out of Ireland, so she was in absolute tears, along with my other aunt and my cousin. Eventually, on looking into the problem, the Manager, realised that there was actually no issues with the booking at all, so decided to let them all standby for the next flight, which they eventually got seats, although not seated together. I am absolutely fuming that they have had to suffer all this stress, through no fault of their own, this was a trip of a life time for my auntie, and it also happened to be my other aunts 60th birthday.They were worried sick about their flight back. After writing to Virgin who responded very quickly, but rightly so, said it was a Delta issue. I then had to call Delta, who had the worst customer service, very familiar and unsympathetic.
We booked a birthday holiday for my aunts 60th and 70th birthday.We booked via lastminute.com on what we thought was a Virgin Atlantic flight, which turned out to be on a Delta aircraft, that wasn't an issue. We tried to complete the online check-in the day before, unfortunately, I only could check in 3 out of 4 passengers. The website advised us to see a check-in agent on the day of travel. I knew there was an issue, so I called Virgin immediately. Virgin reservation centre told us that the date of birth for My aunt was not in , they corrected it and advised that we could carry on and check in. (A few months ago we had to pay an extra fee for a name change, which we were told was done, and we had a receipt of �46 for .) On arrival at the airport the next day the passengers were told that the name change had not been done, even though we had been informed the night before, that all names, ESTA and passport details were correct and complete. The check in agent assumed that the ESTA was not done for my cousin (even though we had shown her the confirmation number), by the time she had decided that everything was in order, the flight had closed and we were told we were too late, (although we had arrived at the airport at 23 hours before )We were also told that Virgin, were in 'meltdown' as they were dealing with a new system, so I suspect that the check-in system had let us down, and the name change issue was just a smoke screen. The manager refused to speak to me on the phone, but said that only 2 of the party could standby for the next flight, however, My aunt couldn't travel until the name corresponded with her passport! My aunt is 70 years old, she's never stepped out of Ireland, so she was in absolute tears, along with my other aunt and my cousin. Eventually, on looking into the problem, the Manager, realised that there was actually no issues with the booking at all, so decided to let them all standby for the next flight, which they eventually got seats, although not seated together. I am absolutely fuming that they have had to suffer all this stress, through no fault of their own, this was a trip of a life time for my auntie, and it also happened to be my other aunts 60th birthday.They were worried sick about their flight back. After writing to Virgin who responded very quickly, but rightly so, said it was a Delta issue. I then had to call Delta, who had the worst customer service, very familiar and unsympathetic.
Mar 24, 2017, 2:37 am
#4
Join Date: Feb 2016
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Posts: 2,988
OP - I fail to see where EC261 applies. Your party had check in issues. They didn't even make it to the gate for the original flight so how could they be denied boarding?
I also don't know why you would call VS with check in issues. The operating carrier always handles check in. I think there is more to this story than you're letting on...
What was the route scheduled to fly and operating airlines for said flights, by the 4 pax you mention had a reservation?
DL has excellent customer service but EC261 is handled by a specific team reachable by writing only. It seems you don't have a valid EC261 claim and they perhaps did you all a favor allowing standby on the next flight without any change fee or fare difference.
I also don't know why you would call VS with check in issues. The operating carrier always handles check in. I think there is more to this story than you're letting on...
What was the route scheduled to fly and operating airlines for said flights, by the 4 pax you mention had a reservation?
DL has excellent customer service but EC261 is handled by a specific team reachable by writing only. It seems you don't have a valid EC261 claim and they perhaps did you all a favor allowing standby on the next flight without any change fee or fare difference.
Mar 24, 2017, 3:29 am
#5
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 2,881
You're saying you were at the airport 23 hours before departure and you were trying to checkin all the way up until the flight closed for checkin at 1 hour before departure? I don't believe that. EU comp doesn't apply if you're not at the gate. Please provide more info.
Mar 24, 2017, 3:31 am
#6
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,151
If you feel you've been ignored and have a strong case, just go to court. Delta will respond.
Alternatively, use a service which will fight for you for a fee to save you time
https://www.airhelp.com/en/
Alternatively, use a service which will fight for you for a fee to save you time
https://www.airhelp.com/en/
Mar 24, 2017, 5:37 am
#7
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Long Beach, CA
Programs: DL DM
Posts: 5,292
Mar 24, 2017, 6:47 am
#8
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The collection companies are good at this and cheaper then a lawyer. They take a percent of the final payment and include the cost for courts.
Mar 24, 2017, 7:11 am
#9
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: OKC
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Mar 24, 2017, 7:14 am
#10
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As a starting point and perhaps for the benefit of others in your situation:
1. There is no benefit in writing to random people at a large operating business, even to senior executives. All of these claims are forwarded to the same database as an EC 261/2004 claim would made it into in a day or two had it been correctly submitted. While people sometimes believe that "executive support" and other sillinesses mean special treatment, it does not. It means delay.
2. Complaints should be short and to the point. An EC 261/2004 claim is based on a simple set of facts and is binary. Those facts either exist or not. The purpose of your trip and your aunt's age are irrelevant. Unlike situations where you are seeking assistance where the personal situation may matter, it does not matter here.
3. This claim demonstrates that it is a waste of time dealing with the NEB's such as the CAA with respect to a multinational such as DL as repsects a claim such as this. DL knows full well what the Regulation provides, has a team of highly-paid lawyers to determine its legal positions, and a larger team of regulatory front-line people to send out formulaic answers such as the one you received. It will not be swayed by the CAA. Presuming that you have a UK address and thus access to MCOL, your time with the CAA is not well spent. File your claim with DL, if it is denied, start the MCOL process (Letter Before Action forms are on the website) and let the matter take its course.
But, but, but -- At least on the facts you suggest, I do not believe that your aunt has a valid denied boarding claim against DL under EC 261/2004 and that she will lose that claim should she as the passenger (not you) pursue her claim.
As best as I can see, your aunt had troubles with VS which caused a name mismatch ultimately leading to an inability to timely check in with DL. The technical fault appears to have been due to a "meltdown" (your words) at VS which DL was able to correct but not quickly enough to permit boarding.
Nonetheless, DL did rebook, either as required by the fare rules or ex gratia. While the entire check-in mess is neither your fault nor your aunt's so far as your statement suggests, if DL boards a passenger with a name mismatch, it subjects itself to massive fines and the prospect of having to return your aunt to LHR on its next flight. In turn, your aunt faces being excluded from the US at JFK, a far worse situation than being stuck at LHR waiting for the next flight.
It is possible that DL may toss something your aunt's way to soothe hurt feelings, but it seems clear that it is dug in and quite prepared to deal with MCOL and the ensuing court proceeding. While the end result is not precedential in the sense of UK and EU law, it sets a pattern which DL does not want to set.
1. There is no benefit in writing to random people at a large operating business, even to senior executives. All of these claims are forwarded to the same database as an EC 261/2004 claim would made it into in a day or two had it been correctly submitted. While people sometimes believe that "executive support" and other sillinesses mean special treatment, it does not. It means delay.
2. Complaints should be short and to the point. An EC 261/2004 claim is based on a simple set of facts and is binary. Those facts either exist or not. The purpose of your trip and your aunt's age are irrelevant. Unlike situations where you are seeking assistance where the personal situation may matter, it does not matter here.
3. This claim demonstrates that it is a waste of time dealing with the NEB's such as the CAA with respect to a multinational such as DL as repsects a claim such as this. DL knows full well what the Regulation provides, has a team of highly-paid lawyers to determine its legal positions, and a larger team of regulatory front-line people to send out formulaic answers such as the one you received. It will not be swayed by the CAA. Presuming that you have a UK address and thus access to MCOL, your time with the CAA is not well spent. File your claim with DL, if it is denied, start the MCOL process (Letter Before Action forms are on the website) and let the matter take its course.
But, but, but -- At least on the facts you suggest, I do not believe that your aunt has a valid denied boarding claim against DL under EC 261/2004 and that she will lose that claim should she as the passenger (not you) pursue her claim.
As best as I can see, your aunt had troubles with VS which caused a name mismatch ultimately leading to an inability to timely check in with DL. The technical fault appears to have been due to a "meltdown" (your words) at VS which DL was able to correct but not quickly enough to permit boarding.
Nonetheless, DL did rebook, either as required by the fare rules or ex gratia. While the entire check-in mess is neither your fault nor your aunt's so far as your statement suggests, if DL boards a passenger with a name mismatch, it subjects itself to massive fines and the prospect of having to return your aunt to LHR on its next flight. In turn, your aunt faces being excluded from the US at JFK, a far worse situation than being stuck at LHR waiting for the next flight.
It is possible that DL may toss something your aunt's way to soothe hurt feelings, but it seems clear that it is dug in and quite prepared to deal with MCOL and the ensuing court proceeding. While the end result is not precedential in the sense of UK and EU law, it sets a pattern which DL does not want to set.
Mar 24, 2017, 8:30 am
#11
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: NYC
Programs: DL Plat
Posts: 229
This website is not a forum for complaints. We're all Delta fans here, so coming on this forum and telling us how terrible Delta is is unlikely to get quality responses.
You cannot email CEOs of corporations (Delta or otherwise) and expect to get a response. Your email likely wasn't ignored, it was probably never even seen. You have to go customer service, ask for a supervisor, and work your way through the system that way.
You cannot email CEOs of corporations (Delta or otherwise) and expect to get a response. Your email likely wasn't ignored, it was probably never even seen. You have to go customer service, ask for a supervisor, and work your way through the system that way.
Mar 24, 2017, 8:36 am
#12
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Mar 24, 2017, 8:42 am
#13
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There is no basis for a EC261 claim here. Not sure where the name mismatch comes from but I suspect it is unlikely that you will get any compensation from DL. Emailing random executives rarely achieves anything.
Mar 24, 2017, 8:43 am
#14
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It doesn't sound like DL did anything wrong. The booking was messed up and the correction never entered/sent to DL. Therefore they were in their rights to not board the passenger. The only one that might have a claim is the one that was refused boarding, but then manager found everything in order. Even then I'm betting DL will argue that the rest of the group could have flown onwards, but chose not to leave the others and thus they would've also.
Sounds like may not being clear with the NEB and thus they're making determinations not with the full facts.
Sounds like may not being clear with the NEB and thus they're making determinations not with the full facts.
Mar 24, 2017, 9:09 am
#15
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: London, United Kingdom
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Posts: 2,635
No entitlement to EU compensation here. The only avenue I see is against lastminute.com or Virgin for mis-processing the name change, even then since you did eventually travel it's hard to see you achieving much.
You should be more objective and fact based in your conduct. Wildly firing out letters, being "appalled", and thinking that your party's circumstance somehow influence the situation don't achieve anything. We live in a society of rules and laws, if you are confident in your position then pursue the appropriate legal avenues.
You should be more objective and fact based in your conduct. Wildly firing out letters, being "appalled", and thinking that your party's circumstance somehow influence the situation don't achieve anything. We live in a society of rules and laws, if you are confident in your position then pursue the appropriate legal avenues.