steveholt

Not complaining about the overall cost (although I could...) but don't understand the logic. Looking for LIS-JFK-LAS availability. When I search for LIS-LAS in J, the award calendar spits out a price of 132,500 miles. When I search the flights separately, though, LIS-JFK prices out at 70k, and LAS-JFK prices out at 45k, for a total of 115,000 miles, even though it's the same flights. Very confused.

xliioper

Likely married segment logic. It can work the other way as well where LIS-JFK-LAS could be cheaper than LIS-JFK standalone (although these cases are more likely on domestic routes involving hub-hub flights with onward connections). Check the fare rules for the ticket and see whether or not it is a broken fare or a single fare. Are the fare codes for the segments the same or different ones?

Looked at the options and the only possible one I can come up with is that this is a broken fare with LIS-JFK pricing as a CSL875 and JFK-LAS as an FSS450 when priced as a single ticket. When priced as a standalone, LIS-JFK is probably faring out as a CSM700. Hence, the 17.5K mileage difference. This can be verified in the fare rules. I'd think it'd use the lower CSM700 when pricing as a broken fare, so I'm a bit stumped by this as well unless there is some additional fare logic at play here.

The cheapest award fare on this route will be a single through-fare CSM700 at 70K miles. I see a few of these on some dates, but they all generally require partner AF/KL metal through CDG/AMS with a double connect. DL looks to be holding award availability for LIS-JFK segment for O&D bookings.

Mr. Tickets

Married segment logic, been discussed maybe a zillion times

xliioper

Except I wouldn't expect married segment logic on broken fares.

Just checked every date in June and July and found CSM700 availability for LIS-JFK on following dates 6/6, 6/23, 6/26, 6/28, 7/4, 7/11-7/13, 7/18-7/21. Then checked LIS-JFK-LAS for all those dates and was getting broken fares with a CSM700 fare on the LIS-JFK segment as well. They also had the exact same inventory availability as well. Some dates only had 1 seat in the bucket, so perhaps OP was only searching for 1 seat on individual segments and then tried to book 2 on LIS-JFK-LAS?

flyerCO

DL has been imposing the logic on separate fares on one ticket for awhile. Only way to get around is separate tickets.

xliioper

That's for revenue fares and they do it with end-on-end fare construction restrictions in the fare rules. There's no end-on-end restrictions in the award fare rules. It'd be helpful if OP would provide the date he was looking at. Just not seeing it when I searched.

flyerCO

DL has been imposing o/d when on one ticket even if using multi-city. Basically there's no way around it except to buy two separate tickets.

xliioper

Not sure what you are talking about. I found dozens of examples of combining a CSM700 70K LIS-JFK with a FSS450 45K JFK-LAS to get a single 115K award ticket. The inventory availability for the combined fare ticket was exactly the same as the standalone CSM700 fare on LIS-JFK. With revenue tickets, it's a binary -- either the fare rules permit combinability, or they do not.

As an aside, just noticed the JFK-PHX/LAS/SAN/DEN/PDX/SEA non-stop trans-con routes seem to have a more limited set of fare classes for F awards than other domestic F routes (AS metal on JFK-SEA fares as a CSM325 32.5K award while it is still available).

FSS450 45K
FSK550 55K
FSKP600 60K

For other domestic F awards, the award levels start from FSM250 25K awards. If you are using the above routes to/from EU destinations, it looks like the cheapest you can get is the 115K broken fare above. For other routings in domestic F to the EU, you can get cheaper CSM700 70K, CSL875 87.5K, or CSD1100 110K through fare awards.

NoStressHere

Actually, it is not the same flights.

Every single flight is marketed and sold based on supply and demand.

Each leg has it's supply and demand factors. And, at the same each flight that might have a connection, or even through flight will have it's own supply and demand.

Might not seem to make common sense, but in the big picture, it does.

If you price out the cash prices for many flights, sometimes the FARTHER city/destination is cheaper than buying the a ticket to the connecting city only. Supply and demand along with marketing factors.

flyerCO

How long is the stop between flights? If more then 4/24hrs then it will price at lower level. However if it is short enough to qualify as a connection then it won't.

steveholt

8/13.

xliioper

Thanks for the date. Just checked LIS-JFK on that date and it is currently pricing as a CSL875 87.5K award with 3 seats left. Perhaps there was CSM700 70K award availability when you initially checked it and by the time you checked for the LIS-JFK-LAS award it was no longer there. So we still don't have an actual example of inventory being independently managed when constructing broken fare awards. I just don't buy that DL's IT is all that sophisticated. Note, I'm not questioning that inventory is independently managed for through fares. That is abundantly clear. But OP's case was not a through fare as there are none at the 132.5K level. It was pretty clearly a broken fare with a CSL875 for the D1 flight and a FSS450 for the domestic F JFK-LAS flight. Here are the current D1 fare levels. If you get some other number, it's a broken fare construction and the components can be found in the fare rules which is linked at the bottom of the page of the flight itin.

CSM700 70K
CSL875 87.5K
CSD1100 110K
CSS1375 137.5K
CSK1750 175K
CSKP2250 225K