Nugget_Oz

Most times F is a complimentary upgrade, especially domestic F (as opposed to transcontinental F). You get a bigger seat, possible meal, better snacks and free alcohol. At the end of the day very few people pay the $1,500 for F.

I've flown the QF 8s and give me a CR2 anyday!

flyerCO

What is called First class in N. America is generally called business in the rest of the world. Outside NA only true IFC is called First Class.

Also remember that with US carriers you get elites upgrading free to domestic F. For those that pay, it's generally no where close to full F pricing. Most will pay for discounted F which in some cases can be less then $100 more then the going discounted Y fare.

Cedar Jet

Agree totally from an ac view point; jets far surpass turboprops. The service however is the point I was making,..if QF can offer free food drinks snacks etc to Y pax on a regional Dash 8 and DL refuses to offer other than a drink in a Jet in 'F'...... something isn't right.

flyerCO

Again different demand for services. F is for the most part a free upgrade for most passengers. For those paying it's only because they're connecting to/from another flight. There's little if any demand for a paid F product on this route.

You get a meal/sandwich in J on most European airlines even on short routes like LHR-AMS. However they don't upgrade you for free either.

xliioper

You seem to be missing my point. I assume by "full F" fare, you mean fully refundable? The thing is, almost no pays those fully refundable F fares anymore as US airlines have introduced heavily discounted non-refundable F fares. I just spot checked JFK-YHZ pricing for discount F, and it is only $491 roundtrip. This is typical of what the vast majority of people are paying for F in the US these days. And, as mentioned upthread, there are also a number of elites getting comp upgrades on these routes.

Also, fully refundable international Y fares for $1500 are not all that commonplace. In most cases I've seen, fully refundable international Y fares are significantly more expensive than even discount international J fares. How about giving us an apples-to-apples comparison and tell us how much you are paying for those Qantas domestic J fares?

3Cforme

Refuses to offer is an odd way to think of it. Carriers can compete along multiple vectors. If Delta thought food & beverage service would differentiate it meaningfully from competitors in the market (United, and Air Canada codeshares of United for non-stops between NYC and YHZ) it would offer it. Otherwise it's just giving away stuff without earning a market return.

Delta, United, and American all use a matrix of flight distance or flight duration and time of day to determine food service, with a few route exceptions. See the first post in this thread for Delta's:

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/delta...d-archive.html

Plated snack service on a 598 mile flight departing at 8:55PM? Nope.

GoAmtrak

Getting back closer to topic... Anyone have any insights why US carriers have largely pulled out of the Canadian Maritimes, even in peak tourist season? It's not like they were ever dumping capacity wantonly or even going head to head in the same O/D markets. Given the consistently high fares, it just baffles me that the airports in the region could no longer support even one RJ/day from each of the Big Three to at least one of their respective hubs. YHZ used to have AA and UA to multiple hubs, YYG used to have CO and NW, etc.

Mountain Explorer

US Carriers are very timid in serving any part of Canada, in my opinion, not just the maritimes. Between YYZ and the West Coast for example, Air Canada runs multiple widebodies daily while DL runs no service whatsoever between YYZ and its West Coast hubs (SEA, LAX). From DL's other hubs, YYZ and YUL service is mostly RJs (and a few 717s now). Toronto is well in the top 10 in terms of North American metro areas.

The fact that there are no connection possibilities upon landing in Canada (except maybe an AF flight to CDG) is part of it, no doubt. Edit: I guess there's WestJet codeshares too. I wonder how many people use those

pilotboy1985YYC

Glad DL is coming back to YHZ.
I flew YHZ-JFK DL F on Sept 28th, just a day or two before service stopped. I asked the check-in agent and she said flight is always full (todays flight oversold by 1) so she couldn't believe they would stop the service.

Still don't understand why there is no service now between Oct-Jan.

Anyway, on my YHZ-JFK flight that left at 6am, two deported americans who were escorted by Canadian Border Security were able to sit in F due to Y being full, and they both ordered alcoholic pre departure drinks and the FA obliged... I read earlier they aren't suppose to do this in Canada?

beachmouse

I faffed around booking Christmas tickets, and the difference between the remaining discount coach and discount F tickets for a Florida to Michigan round trip were a whopping $50 all in for the dates & times I wanted.

flyerCO

Being full doesn't mean it's profitable. Especially so if instead of connecting onto/from other DL flights they use another airline. Defeats the purpose of even being operated to bring in passenger revenue on other flights.

Cedar Jet

8:55PM understandable(perhaps a snack at least) but, equally, no breakfast of sorts departing 6AM??...Yes me thinks.

I stand by my point it should not be labeled 'First' if used for upgrades and the like mainly; call it Premium(not First or Business even) is my point-that better describes that it's a no frills flight. Calling it "First" for this type of flight routing remains deceptive.

flyerCO

It's not deceptive. Just because one doesn't like that FC doesn't come with a meal doesn't mean it was deceptive. US/Canadian airlines have for decades not served meals, even in FC on these short routes. Customers here prefer 1)to get free upgrades to the FC cabin, and 2)are price sensitive, so even a $1 cost rise will cause passengers to book elsewhere.

Sadly I normally only have to give this advice to fellow Americans. However in this case it's needed. The world does not revolve around you and your viewpoint. It's been called FC here for over 40 years, and in that time there's always been a length cutoff. It may have been shorter in the past, but there still had always been one.

Cedar Jet

Perhaps it's time DL got with the times then as two new designations are there for the taking, 'Business' or 'Premium Economy'. Like the word 'love' it appears the term 'First' is loosely used in Nth American aviation. Apologies for straying off topic that's my final rant re this, promise

quasihumanist

It's long been remarked that English is not one language but several languages which look and sound very similar. You've discovered one of the many differences between the languages. Americans have to learn to speak and understand Australian when they go to Australia; you have to learn to speak and understand American when you go to the US.