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Y Class Upgrades Discontinued April 30th

Y Class Upgrades Discontinued April 30th

Old Apr 28, 2016, 9:16 am
  #16  
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Originally Posted by Often1
Much of this is dealt with by simply pulling fare bases such as YCA from eligibility for Y UG's. Other items such as treating deeply discounted DLS fares as Y fares for UG purposes are part of the deal DL has cut with its top corporate customers. I would be surprised if DL can unilaterally end those deals other than when those contracts are up for renewal.

Finally, what are referred to as TA Shena, aren't really. Top producers are simply allocated UG's which the TA may then allocate to its best customers (or at least people it needs to take care of).

The bottom line is that with discounted F fares, people who want to fly in F, are well able to do so without having to play UG lottery. The losers here are people who fly on fully refundable Y tickets, but the reality is that this is a zero-sum game and somebody always loses a bit. It's not as though the full Y pax who is also a high-level elite either by earning status or having it designated via corporate contract, won't get an UG on a Y fare.
DL's T&C say that, among other things, the upgrade rules can be changed at any time. It wouldn't be a stretch to declare that discounted corporate contract Y fares no longer count as FULL Y, with FULL Y being required for the early upgrades. Depending on who is doing domestic business travel on Y fares, some corporate travel managers could protest and renegotiate contracts or pick other airlines when their contracts with DL are up for renewal. However, some companies might not care that their employees are sitting in the back on deeply discounted Y fares that company policy requires for the refund ability, especially if higher level executives are permitted to buy FC.
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Old Apr 28, 2016, 9:16 am
  #17  
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Seems like a good change for DMs in government-rich (DCA, IAD, BWI, etc) areas. My hunch is a fair number of upgrades go to government employees who are GMs or FOs.
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Old Apr 28, 2016, 9:18 am
  #18  
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Originally Posted by tjm
Seems like a good change for DMs in government-rich (DCA, IAD, BWI, etc) areas. My hunch is a fair number of upgrades go to government employees who are GMs or FOs.
Unless a government employee travels the same route all the time, they're unlikely to be a high level airline FF program elite because they must split their travel among carriers based on who has the government contract fare for the city pair.

Some other carriers don't prioritize government YCA fares as Y for upgrades and other benefits. YCA means last seat availability; HCA is also flexible.

I recall some reports here of GAs moving people with YCA fares farther down the gate upgrade lists.
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Old Apr 28, 2016, 9:27 am
  #19  
 
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FWIW, I don't work for the government but, my company's weekday shuttle fares always book in discounted Y. Even then, my upgrades on DCA-LGA this year haven't cleared until the gate.

I assume this change doesn't affect 150% MQM earning on full Y fares?
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Old Apr 28, 2016, 9:28 am
  #20  
 
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Very disappointed by this news--my company (~100,000 employees) purchases Y fares by default. I got the bump to F >40% of the time as an FO under this system. That's high, but the average ticket we bought cost ~60 CPM (before rebates)--we've been very profitable for DL and I hope their new system is still able to reward our extraordinary levels of DL spend.
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Old Apr 28, 2016, 9:45 am
  #21  
 
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I wonder what impact this will have to look up upgrade space on delta.com, since Expertflyer no longer shows upgrade inventory space (RU).
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Old Apr 28, 2016, 9:51 am
  #22  
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Originally Posted by MSPeconomist
DL's T&C say that, among other things, the upgrade rules can be changed at any time. It wouldn't be a stretch to declare that discounted corporate contract Y fares no longer count as FULL Y, with FULL Y being required for the early upgrades. Depending on who is doing domestic business travel on Y fares, some corporate travel managers could protest and renegotiate contracts or pick other airlines when their contracts with DL are up for renewal. However, some companies might not care that their employees are sitting in the back on deeply discounted Y fares that company policy requires for the refund ability, especially if higher level executives are permitted to buy FC.
This is incorrect. You are referring to the t&c of the Medallion program (and to a certain extent to the COC and the tariffs (fare rules)).

DL enters all manner of corporate contracts in which it commits to all manner of specific commitments and defines those as of a specified date. Those matter a great deal to companies which use those to do travel cost projections.

Unlike individuals who get the benefit of the Medallion program each day as it stands that day, large corporate customers cut deals which stand for a period of time. Not just as to the t&c of the FFP.
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Old Apr 28, 2016, 9:51 am
  #23  
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Originally Posted by WesTraveller
I wonder what impact this will have to look up upgrade space on delta.com, since Expertflyer no longer shows upgrade inventory space (RU).
After the change becomes effective, is there even a reason for DL to define RU/OU inventory before T-6? Or are these buckets needed for 360 upgrades?
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Old Apr 28, 2016, 9:57 am
  #24  
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Originally Posted by Often1
This is incorrect. You are referring to the t&c of the Medallion program (and to a certain extent to the COC and the tariffs (fare rules)).

DL enters all manner of corporate contracts in which it commits to all manner of specific commitments and defines those as of a specified date. Those matter a great deal to companies which use those to do travel cost projections.

Unlike individuals who get the benefit of the Medallion program each day as it stands that day, large corporate customers cut deals which stand for a period of time. Not just as to the t&c of the FFP.
Perhaps, but I'm wondering how much wiggle room DL has, given the way the FF program rules and these contracts are written. For example, DL could define new inventory classes for various types of upgrades and make the corresponding space available/unavailable as it wishes. I wouldn't expect many contracts to offer a deeply discounted Y fare and promise that it will upgrade into F on a last seat availability basis at the time of booking. That would seem more like a discount on a FULL F or at least discounted P fare. If the company is letting all business travelers book such fares, it's simply paying for FC while writing rules that say coach fares, which would seem strange unless there's some public relations reason for not admitting that it permits FC.

Of course, I don't know what DL's corporate contracts say and I suspect that you do not know this either.
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Old Apr 28, 2016, 11:24 am
  #25  
 
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Originally Posted by gDolan
Very disappointed by this news--my company (~100,000 employees) purchases Y fares by default. I got the bump to F >40% of the time as an FO under this system. That's high, but the average ticket we bought cost ~60 CPM (before rebates)--we've been very profitable for DL and I hope their new system is still able to reward our extraordinary levels of DL spend.
Buying Y by default? That's got to be massively expensive! Given the spread between Y and cheapest non-refundable, you'd have to have the large majority of your trips changing or being cancelled between booking and travel for that to pay off...
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Old Apr 28, 2016, 11:32 am
  #26  
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This is not good for those who have an irrop and there are no seats in F or J left, resulting in a rebooking in Y. DL usually then puts you in the upgrade list, but if the upgrade list will be sorted by status, a DM or PM on a V fare will trump a GM with a Y fare who was originally booked in F / J but did not find a seat available.

AA is very good at handling these cases, as you can be rebooked in Y and put standby in FC (DSR), and your position in the list is higher than anyone requesting upgrades.
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Old Apr 28, 2016, 11:45 am
  #27  
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Originally Posted by SDQBound
This is not good for those who have an irrop and there are no seats in F or J left, resulting in a rebooking in Y. DL usually then puts you in the upgrade list, but if the upgrade list will be sorted by status, a DM or PM on a V fare will trump a GM with a Y fare who was originally booked in F / J but did not find a seat available.

AA is very good at handling these cases, as you can be rebooked in Y and put standby in FC (DSR), and your position in the list is higher than anyone requesting upgrades.
IF the irop coding is done properly, you can still be flagged as a disrupted travel pax and the system would give them priority on the list, but not sure where that falls any more.
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Old Apr 28, 2016, 12:23 pm
  #28  
 
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Oh man, for the first time in my life I bought some Y fares for December! Hope the speculation is right that they will still be prioritized. I have no problem that a DM's would be ahead of me but I bought Y specifically so that we would have higher priority (travelling w/ a companion). Subscribed!
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Old Apr 28, 2016, 12:31 pm
  #29  
 
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Originally Posted by JayTeaBee
Oh man, for the first time in my life I bought some Y fares for December! Hope the speculation is right that they will still be prioritized. I have no problem that a DM's would be ahead of me but I bought Y specifically so that we would have higher priority (travelling w/ a companion). Subscribed!
Well, the nice thing is that they're Y, so if the policy changes, you can always cancel, get the full refund, and rebook more cheaply.
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Old Apr 28, 2016, 12:36 pm
  #30  
 
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Originally Posted by cestmoi123
Buying Y by default? That's got to be massively expensive! Given the spread between Y and cheapest non-refundable, you'd have to have the large majority of your trips changing or being cancelled between booking and travel for that to pay off...
When I worked in Corporate Travel Agency Support it was not uncommon for me to see tickets that had been exchanged 3-4 times. The most I ever saw was 12(but that was a full F ticket)
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