Emotional Support Animals, Service Dogs and Comfort Pets: The Definitive Thread
#586
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: BWI
Programs: DL FO
Posts: 312
A good friend of mine has a dog that is certified as a therapy dog. I don't know much about what the certification process entails, but I know that this is a very sweet, extremely well-trained and well-behaved dog (and a rather large Australian Ridgeback!). My friend is a licensed masseuse and yoga instructor and takes the dog with her to facilities for the elderly, where the dog contributes to the mental well-being of residents, while my friend sees to their physical well-being. Apparently, the training for the dog to receive certification was fairly intensive and required testing by the certifying organization to ensure that the dog could safely be around people, including those with diminished capacity, and offer appropriate attention and affection.
Sounds to me an awful lot like the support that an ESA is supposed to provide. If my friend's dog can get this kind of certification, so can the so-called ESAs.
Sounds to me an awful lot like the support that an ESA is supposed to provide. If my friend's dog can get this kind of certification, so can the so-called ESAs.
#587
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Ok. Replace "fake" with "untrained" or "actually-just-a-pet".
Same end meaning - ESAs who are adequately trained to behave/react properly in a unusual situations will get certified. Other animals who are not trained as such will be unable to pass the tests that result in such certifications. And the cost/effort involved with such certifications will go a long way to deterring people from obtaining them unless there is a significant and legitimate need.
The article linked in this very thread was from FOX 5, and I saw it on last night's 10pm local news.
If DL or any other airline had the type of control over news networks that you're suggesting, do you really think they'd allow the tidal wave of airline-bashing that's been going on lately?
Same end meaning - ESAs who are adequately trained to behave/react properly in a unusual situations will get certified. Other animals who are not trained as such will be unable to pass the tests that result in such certifications. And the cost/effort involved with such certifications will go a long way to deterring people from obtaining them unless there is a significant and legitimate need.
I've just read this article about the dog mauling in Atlanta on Saturday. I've only seen or heard about this from Flyertalk. I would be very concerned about the control Delta has over the news networks. I have not seen anything or heard anything about this from any news networks in Atlanta, not even from Fox5newsAtlanta.com. And... I am in Atlanta!
Of course I could have missed it, but one would think this would be big news.
Of course I could have missed it, but one would think this would be big news.
If DL or any other airline had the type of control over news networks that you're suggesting, do you really think they'd allow the tidal wave of airline-bashing that's been going on lately?
#588
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: HSV
Programs: Hy Glob,Choice Dia, MR TIT,IHG SPR,HH Dia, Wyn Dia, UA Sil, WN Alis, Hert 5*, National EE
Posts: 1,188
I dont see how this is the same at all.
Either I paid for the dog to go each time, or I got the certification to allow him to come. Either way he was going, the only difference was whether I paid $750 or $180.
If he was a large dog that didnt qualify to fly in the cabin it would be different because I would of been using the cert to gain an extra privilege, but due to his 7lb size he was allowed in the cabin anyway.
#589
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Is there an option to pay a fee of $XXX to take a wheelchair and cut security?
I dont see how this is the same at all.
Either I paid for the dog to go each time, or I got the certification to allow him to come. Either way he was going, the only difference was whether I paid $750 or $180.
If he was a large dog that didnt qualify to fly in the cabin it would be different because I would of been using the cert to gain an extra privilege, but due to his 7lb size he was allowed in the cabin anyway.
I dont see how this is the same at all.
Either I paid for the dog to go each time, or I got the certification to allow him to come. Either way he was going, the only difference was whether I paid $750 or $180.
If he was a large dog that didnt qualify to fly in the cabin it would be different because I would of been using the cert to gain an extra privilege, but due to his 7lb size he was allowed in the cabin anyway.
1. You have always been against animals on airplanes in general.
2. You do not actually have a need for an actual, trained ESA during travel (as evidenced by your previous trips without one and you being "totally okay with getting rid of ESA's and any animals in the cabin").
3. You encountered a situation where you needed/wanted to bring your pet dog with you on several flights.
4. Due to your personal needs, you looked up the in-cabin pet fee and found it to be too high to your liking.
5. Only after encountering #s 3 and 4 did you seek out a letter identifying your pet dog as an ESA.
Thus: Since YOU wanted to bring your pet dog along, but YOU didn't want to pay the clearly published fee, it is now okay for YOU to qualify your pet as an ESA for the sole reason of avoiding the fee.
Additionally: Though YOU disapprove of having animals in airplane cabins in general, such disapproval need not apply when YOU have a need/desire to bring YOUR pet along with you on *six* separate flights.
...
So you're aware, you aren't likely to win this argument in this particular forum. But by all means, please continue to try - your attempts to justify your actions are quite entertaining.
#590
Suspended
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Atherton, CA
Programs: UA 1K, AA EXP; Owner, Green Bay Packers
Posts: 21,691
Is there an option to pay a fee of $XXX to take a wheelchair and cut security?
I dont see how this is the same at all.
Either I paid for the dog to go each time, or I got the certification to allow him to come. Either way he was going, the only difference was whether I paid $750 or $180.
If he was a large dog that didnt qualify to fly in the cabin it would be different because I would of been using the cert to gain an extra privilege, but due to his 7lb size he was allowed in the cabin anyway.
I dont see how this is the same at all.
Either I paid for the dog to go each time, or I got the certification to allow him to come. Either way he was going, the only difference was whether I paid $750 or $180.
If he was a large dog that didnt qualify to fly in the cabin it would be different because I would of been using the cert to gain an extra privilege, but due to his 7lb size he was allowed in the cabin anyway.
Some airlines limit the total number of animals allowed on each flight. You are potentially preventing someone who actually has a disability requiring a service animal from flying.
Safe travels,
Doc
#591
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: HSV
Programs: Hy Glob,Choice Dia, MR TIT,IHG SPR,HH Dia, Wyn Dia, UA Sil, WN Alis, Hert 5*, National EE
Posts: 1,188
I think its kind of funny that people seem to take exception to abusing the ESA but have no problem circumventing airline fees whenever possible.
As I previously stated I am against ESA, but I will take advantage of the situation when given the opportunity.
#592
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: HSV
Programs: Hy Glob,Choice Dia, MR TIT,IHG SPR,HH Dia, Wyn Dia, UA Sil, WN Alis, Hert 5*, National EE
Posts: 1,188
I did not fake a disability, I answered all of the questions accurately.
Do you ever feel depressed-Sometimes (especially when I cant get 1st class availability on CX)
Do you ever feel anxious-Sometimes (especially when waiting to see if an upgrade clears)
Do you ever contemplate suicide-Never (especially with all this money I am saving getting an ESA letter)
#593
Suspended
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Atherton, CA
Programs: UA 1K, AA EXP; Owner, Green Bay Packers
Posts: 21,691
I did not fake a disability, I answered all of the questions accurately.
Do you ever feel depressed-Sometimes (especially when I cant get 1st class availability on CX)
Do you ever feel anxious-Sometimes (especially when waiting to see if an upgrade clears)
Do you ever contemplate suicide-Never (especially with all this money I am saving getting an ESA letter)
Do you ever feel depressed-Sometimes (especially when I cant get 1st class availability on CX)
Do you ever feel anxious-Sometimes (especially when waiting to see if an upgrade clears)
Do you ever contemplate suicide-Never (especially with all this money I am saving getting an ESA letter)
#594
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I did not fake a disability, I answered all of the questions accurately.
Do you ever feel depressed-Sometimes (especially when I cant get 1st class availability on CX)
Do you ever feel anxious-Sometimes (especially when waiting to see if an upgrade clears)
Do you ever contemplate suicide-Never (especially with all this money I am saving getting an ESA letter)
Do you ever feel depressed-Sometimes (especially when I cant get 1st class availability on CX)
Do you ever feel anxious-Sometimes (especially when waiting to see if an upgrade clears)
Do you ever contemplate suicide-Never (especially with all this money I am saving getting an ESA letter)
Maybe anyone submitting an ESA letter to an airline should be required to take the ESA on *every* trip (and implicitly not travel to any overseas destinations or use any partners that do not permit ESAs). I suspect that many ESAs are only *needed* for vacations and not short business trips where the animal could be embarrassing or inconvenient.
#595
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: HSV
Programs: Hy Glob,Choice Dia, MR TIT,IHG SPR,HH Dia, Wyn Dia, UA Sil, WN Alis, Hert 5*, National EE
Posts: 1,188
Maybe anyone submitting an ESA letter to an airline should be required to take the ESA on *every* trip (and implicitly not travel to any overseas destinations or use any partners that do not permit ESAs). I suspect that many ESAs are only *needed* for vacations and not short business trips where the animal could be embarrassing or inconvenient.
#596
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: CHS
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Posts: 1,141
If this is all it took (plus $180?) to get an ESA letter, this proves the point about all the fake ESAs flying around in the wild.
Maybe anyone submitting an ESA letter to an airline should be required to take the ESA on *every* trip (and implicitly not travel to any overseas destinations or use any partners that do not permit ESAs). I suspect that many ESAs are only *needed* for vacations and not short business trips where the animal could be embarrassing or inconvenient.
Maybe anyone submitting an ESA letter to an airline should be required to take the ESA on *every* trip (and implicitly not travel to any overseas destinations or use any partners that do not permit ESAs). I suspect that many ESAs are only *needed* for vacations and not short business trips where the animal could be embarrassing or inconvenient.
Vacation trip = Time to Relax
#597
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: LIT
Programs: Blinged Out
Posts: 712
Ha! Exactly.
I would love to have that "I believe that the price is too high, thus I'm going to bend the rules to benefit me" approach to life.
Would it work for speeding tickets? Buying a new luxury vehicle? Meals at restaurants? Buying bottles of 30 year old scotch?
I really hope the major airlines crack down on this nonsense in a big way. If flying is too stressful or expensive, then drive.
Furthermore, if anyone brought their ESA to a business meeting with me, they would have exactly zero chance of closing a deal. No way anyone with a real job on business would even consider flying with an ESA.
I would love to have that "I believe that the price is too high, thus I'm going to bend the rules to benefit me" approach to life.
Would it work for speeding tickets? Buying a new luxury vehicle? Meals at restaurants? Buying bottles of 30 year old scotch?
I really hope the major airlines crack down on this nonsense in a big way. If flying is too stressful or expensive, then drive.
Furthermore, if anyone brought their ESA to a business meeting with me, they would have exactly zero chance of closing a deal. No way anyone with a real job on business would even consider flying with an ESA.
#598
Join Date: Mar 2010
Programs: DL PM, Bonvoy Gold
Posts: 8,411
I want to say it again: at least for small animals that fit under the seat and are in place of the free carry on the pax is entitled to, charge a more reasonable pet travel fee ($25 each way max) and watch most of the fake ESA problems disappear. This does not solve the big animal issue, but it would solve the issue for many, many people. the $150 each way fee is obnoxious and people will continue to find a way around that. It is not right to fake needing an ESA, but I also don't think it's right for the airline to charge insane fees.
#599
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: LIT
Programs: Blinged Out
Posts: 712
I want to say it again: at least for small animals that fit under the seat and are in place of the free carry on the pax is entitled to, charge a more reasonable pet travel fee ($25 each way max) and watch most of the fake ESA problems disappear. This does not solve the big animal issue, but it would solve the issue for many, many people. the $150 each way fee is obnoxious and people will continue to find a way around that. It is not right to fake needing an ESA, but I also don't think it's right for the airline to charge insane fees.
#600
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 4,723
This.
If you search the literature, it's pretty difficult to find evidence of actual reactions due to pets in a cabin. In fact, people are exposed to animals that they are allergic to more often than they typically realize.
And lots of people misuse the term "allergy". An allergy is a specific kind of immunological reaction.
For example, people often say "I have an allergy to milk" when they are simply lactose intolerant or "I have an allergy to penicillin" when it's just that penicillin gives them nausea and diarrhea.
There are many examples.
It all basically boils down to people building a narrative to fit a personal bias.
If you search the literature, it's pretty difficult to find evidence of actual reactions due to pets in a cabin. In fact, people are exposed to animals that they are allergic to more often than they typically realize.
And lots of people misuse the term "allergy". An allergy is a specific kind of immunological reaction.
For example, people often say "I have an allergy to milk" when they are simply lactose intolerant or "I have an allergy to penicillin" when it's just that penicillin gives them nausea and diarrhea.
There are many examples.
It all basically boils down to people building a narrative to fit a personal bias.
Or, here's great idea! Try living with a severe animal allergy! Or food allergy, or other immune system problem, and then post about reality after you've lived it.
Severe allergy to dogs, as in death level severe, runs in my ex's family and my son inherited it. He's been under the care of allergists and immunologists since he was an infant. The allergists we work have shown us studies on animal allergies - a genuine allergy to dogs has a higher fatality rate than many other environmental allergies, and such allergies often become worse over time. We've had to make multiple trips to the ER because of it. Flying requires that he carry 3 different medications in case of a reaction.
As for your lactose intolerance example - do you want to discuss your full medical history when ordering a meal in a restaurant, or perhaps retain some shred of privacy after you absolutely have to make sure you're not going have a negative reaction to your meal? Most (decent) people respect allergies, so if you tell a server that you are allergic, there is a greater chance of getting your need heard and respected than if you try to explain lactose intolerance and have to trust that it will be accurately conveyed to the kitchen.
Like I said, try living it before you slam it.