Originally Posted by CMK10

It's not just Delta. A couple of years ago I was flying MGA-MIA-ORD-RDU on AA on a Paid Business Class ticket. MGA-MIA got delayed so AA rebooked me MIA-RDU in Coach despite the fact there were 7+ empty F seats on the MIA-RDU flight and AA was still selling 6 tickets in my ticketed fare class.

In short, computers can be dumb.

Originally Posted by MSPeconomist

My other experience with being VIPRed was also extremely unsatisfactory. The short version is that I was flying PHL-MSP and when I was on the way to the airport, the flight was delayed by five minutes. I was auto rebooked for the next morning at 7 am to RDU and then to MSP at 5pm, with at least one segment in coach despite having bought a P fare. of course there was no notification until my boarding pass on the phone didn't work for TSA. Then I stood in line for over an hour since the kiosks wouldn't work for me and consequently missed the flight that I had been booked on. The airport agent put me on the next nonstop in FC, but it was about six hours late and I arrived into MSP around 3 am after being in the airport starting around 1 pm that day. Still, it was better than the RDU excursion in coach when I had paid for FC.

I really wish it were possible for elites to opt out of VIPR and just call to be rebooked in person.

Originally Posted by SDQBound

My AF flight last christmas season got delayed by 15 minutes but arrived earlier than scheduled. By the time I arrived to JFK, I was already rebooked for the next day's connecting flight and my original flight was oversold. Fun times

Originally Posted by MSPeconomist

The scary thing is that if I hadn't noticed the unnecessary involuntary downgrade (about which DL failed to inform me) I could easily either have gotten boarding passes for the new flight and not realized the switch until I was on board, or I could have been in the uncomfortable position of trying to convince an AF transfer desk agent that I really had a business class ticket despite being booked in coach. I don't think I would have won that fight, nor would DL have given me an ex post refund. In fact, even if I had gotten a refund, breaking the fare to ticket one segment in (apparently) FULL Y would have resulted in little if any money being returned. Furthermore, I don't see how EC261 would have protected me.

Originally Posted by sethb

I believe that credit for an involuntary downgrade is a specific percentage of the ticket price, and some courts have decided that when the airlines aren't cooperative that's of the full ticket price (not just the single segment).

Originally Posted by MSPeconomist

That would be the EC261 rules, but it was the DL flight exUSA that was late.

If DL rebooked me into coach in IROPs, from the viewpoint of AF, I never would have had a business class ticket on the new flight, so they wouldn't see it as a downgrade.

I might have been able to fight with DL later for a refund, which normally isn't given for IROPs rebookings, but breaking the fare probably would have meant that I would have owed money to DL.

Originally Posted by sethb

But it's the intra-EU flight that was downgraded.

I'd fight with DL pointing out that I paid for J and they involuntarily rebooked me into Y, so I want the price difference between J and Y refunded.

Originally Posted by MSPeconomist

Then DL breaks the fare and sends me a bill. No thanks.

Originally Posted by sethb

If I ask DL for a refund for services I paid for and didn't get, they don't get to arbitrarily re-fare a flown itinerary and attempt to charge me more. They just give me the refund (or decline to and I escalate).

Originally Posted by MSPeconomist

IIRC there's wording in the CoC to the effect that one isn't entitled to refunds as the result of IROPs rebookings, regardless of whether there's a downgrade or a rebooking onto a cheaper fare or cheaper routing, etc.

Originally Posted by sethb

If they really want to play that game, they'll be required to say that publicly where it will play against all their advertising. Is it really your experience that Delta always does the least it can? I've found it's generally reasonable in specific cases (albeit often unreasonable and foolish in large areas, like FCM and C+).

Originally Posted by sethb

But it's the intra-EU flight that was downgraded.

I'd fight with DL pointing out that I paid for J and they involuntarily rebooked me into Y, so I want the price difference between J and Y refunded.

Originally Posted by bubbashow

I can't believe this has survived four pages now with something that was RECTIFIED almost immediately.

Originally Posted by bubbashow

You do know she sat in business?

Originally Posted by MSPeconomist

I'd say mixed experiences, with macro policy matters more likely to be negative and micro individual elite agents inclined to do the best they can, although they seem to have less authority as time goes on, especially compared to the PMNW team.