DL and AA No More Interline Agreement; Then Interline Agreement Returns January 2018
#46
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: USA
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Bummer for sure. In January 2011, weather was a CF in DFW, so AA rebooked me SMF-DFW-DCA to DL SMF-MSP-DCA. Incidentally, SMF-MSP was delayed (mechanical), so once arriving to MSP, I got a hotel, meal vouchers, and a transportation voucher at DCA.
Definitely a memorable trip; was in no hurry to get back to DC, so didn't mind the delays. If there were no interline agreements back then, I'd be stuck with AA in DFW without a comped hotel, or end up having to schlep through LAX as the only other connection point from SMF at that time on AA.
Definitely a memorable trip; was in no hurry to get back to DC, so didn't mind the delays. If there were no interline agreements back then, I'd be stuck with AA in DFW without a comped hotel, or end up having to schlep through LAX as the only other connection point from SMF at that time on AA.
#47
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 4,112
I suppose if there is a fixed, agreed-upon interline price of some sort then it all comes down to averages - some will be higher and some lower. And that is the matter that the two sides have to negotiate and agree upon (or not in this case).
#48
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No doubt this is going to be a hit for DL, as this is lost incremental revenue on a perishable product. In fact, it is likely a bigger hit for DL than AA, since DL likely receives more AA rebooks than they rebook on AA.
I suspect that DL is holding out for a more favorable rate since the deck is favoring them. They'd rather pay AA more for each rebook in return for getting more from AA for each rebook.
#49
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 3,394
These are seats that are on open flights, usually departing within the next couple of hours. They were not likely to sell, and if they were or suspected as they would, DL could decline the rebooking when contacted. And they do do that -- e.g., decline taking people on a flight if the earlier one hasn't departed on a mechanical for example.
No doubt this is going to be a hit for DL, as this is lost incremental revenue on a perishable product. In fact, it is likely a bigger hit for DL than AA, since DL likely receives more AA rebooks than they rebook on AA.
I suspect that DL is holding out for a more favorable rate since the deck is favoring them. They'd rather pay AA more for each rebook in return for getting more from AA for each rebook.
No doubt this is going to be a hit for DL, as this is lost incremental revenue on a perishable product. In fact, it is likely a bigger hit for DL than AA, since DL likely receives more AA rebooks than they rebook on AA.
I suspect that DL is holding out for a more favorable rate since the deck is favoring them. They'd rather pay AA more for each rebook in return for getting more from AA for each rebook.
#50
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: RDU
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Posts: 3,218
I suggest your friends educate themselves on Rule 120.20/240 and interline IRROPS agreements. They're probably referring to the old school FIMs (Flight Interruption Manifest), which are rarely, if ever, used anymore. Worst case these days, they're just pushing the value of the pax's ticket to the other carrier.
#51
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DL just wants more money, and DL is willing to burn bridges and ruin customer relationships to get more money sooner than later. Just look at what DL has done to SkyMiles customers in the main.
It's all about the Benjamins, and it starts with DL.
It's all about the Benjamins, and it starts with DL.
#52
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In my recent UA>DL experience, the ticket price did show up when it posted to my DL account since that's how DL awards miles these days. It was about double the cost of what I paid UA for the segment in the first place.
I suppose if there is a fixed, agreed-upon interline price of some sort then it all comes down to averages - some will be higher and some lower. And that is the matter that the two sides have to negotiate and agree upon (or not in this case).
I suppose if there is a fixed, agreed-upon interline price of some sort then it all comes down to averages - some will be higher and some lower. And that is the matter that the two sides have to negotiate and agree upon (or not in this case).
#53
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Tricoastal - London, New York, Silicon Valley
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I just skimmed through the thread on this on airliners.net. The issue seems to be that DL had asked for more money to renew the interline agreement with AA, at a time when all interline agreements were being renegotiated. In IROPs, the airline in difficulty basically grabs seat inventory on another carrier at the agreed discounted price. Since AA was sending more IROPed passengers to DL than DL was sending to AA, DL wanted AA to pay more for the service. AA refused and hence the interline agreement between DL and AA is ending.
It's generally unfortunate for passengers, but I can understand DL's viewpoint that it shouldn't essentially be subsidizing AA on average in IROPs.
It's generally unfortunate for passengers, but I can understand DL's viewpoint that it shouldn't essentially be subsidizing AA on average in IROPs.
#54
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: RDU
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Posts: 3,218
One of the other things that adds cost is checked bags. If AA "rules" a pax over to DL but doesn't get their bags moved over to DL (and this happens often, both ways)...then DL would incur the cost to deliver the bag and the negative customer perception. This cost (which my former company estimated at $82/bag in 2005) would negate any profit they got from carrying the IRROPed pax.
DL issued a statement. Wow, according to this they were getting 5 times as many IROP pax from AA as they were sending to AA.
http://news.delta.com/delta-and-amer...line-agreement
Agreed. When I used to manage the ticket counter at an airline, I always tried to take OA pax if we had space/time and they had their bags with them.
However, I think it will be a short term hit. Long term it will give DL more control over their own inventory. You can't really plan for OA IROPs.
Haha, the day I was rerouted it was ~2 hours late too...but it was still the quickest option.
DL issued a statement. Wow, according to this they were getting 5 times as many IROP pax from AA as they were sending to AA.
http://news.delta.com/delta-and-amer...line-agreement
These are seats that are on open flights, usually departing within the next couple of hours. They were not likely to sell, and if they were or suspected as they would, DL could decline the rebooking when contacted. And they do do that -- e.g., decline taking people on a flight if the earlier one hasn't departed on a mechanical for example.
No doubt this is going to be a hit for DL, as this is lost incremental revenue on a perishable product. In fact, it is likely a bigger hit for DL than AA, since DL likely receives more AA rebooks than they rebook on AA.
No doubt this is going to be a hit for DL, as this is lost incremental revenue on a perishable product. In fact, it is likely a bigger hit for DL than AA, since DL likely receives more AA rebooks than they rebook on AA.
However, I think it will be a short term hit. Long term it will give DL more control over their own inventory. You can't really plan for OA IROPs.
I have booked that flight (~6pm) 6 times over the last year on US/AA and it has been cancelled twice, it has been significantly late 3 times arriving well past midnight. And only once, the last time I flew it, it arrived late, but only about an hour. Granted, much of it was weather, with some mechanical, but I expect that the NEW AA will operate more like the old US.
DL could make a good decision flying PIT-RDU direct.
DL could make a good decision flying PIT-RDU direct.
Last edited by Canarsie; Sep 15, 2015 at 9:12 pm Reason: Consolidation.
#55
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DL issued a statement. Wow, according to this they were getting 5 times as many IROP pax from AA as they were sending to AA.
http://news.delta.com/delta-and-amer...line-agreement
http://news.delta.com/delta-and-amer...line-agreement
#56
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Combined in large part with internal policies which encourage rebooking on DL or giving refunds rather than booking on another carrier. No carrier is 100% immune from the unexpected happening and it is generally better for the customers to have more options to fix problems than less.
#58
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: IAH / HOU
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Posts: 2,852
In addition to DL's far superior operations, they may also have more routings that can be sent via multiple hubs and greater frequency on busy routes, which allows a mis-connected passenger to simply wait for the next DL flight. AA seems to have more cities with service to only one of their hubs, and more cities served with just a couple flights a day, which means more need to rebook onto other airlines.
#59
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: HNL
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Posts: 7,195
Combined in large part with internal policies which encourage rebooking on DL or giving refunds rather than booking on another carrier. No carrier is 100% immune from the unexpected happening and it is generally better for the customers to have more options to fix problems than less.
While other airlines will readily rebook you on others, DL will always find some reason to block it and would rather delay you 24 or even 48 hours to fly on DL, vs. allow you to go on even another SkyTeam airline flight. Other airlines, in the meanwhile, will readily rebook you on another airline, in or out of their alliance, even if you're a nobody; but at DL, even a DM will get the short end of the stick.
So, these figures to me just show how very cheap DL is and how DL treats its pax so much worse in case of irrops than other airlines do: while AA will readily rebook its pax on DL when things go wrong, when things go wrong at DL (and it so happens a lot), DL will fight tooth and nails and resist rebooking pax on any other airline, and thus of course the proportions will be like this. But, that just shows how very cheap DL is and how badly DL treats its pax, that's all - combining these supposed "stats" with my own experience across DL, AA and UA and observations.
#60
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 337
Exactly. From my experience, having flown about equal DL, AA and UA over the last 1~2 years, DL has - by far - the worst reliability and on-time track record. Now, mind you, that is just my own personal experience based on my travel patterns.
While other airlines will readily rebook you on others, DL will always find some reason to block it and would rather delay you 24 or even 48 hours to fly on DL, vs. allow you to go on even another SkyTeam airline flight. Other airlines, in the meanwhile, will readily rebook you on another airline, in or out of their alliance, even if you're a nobody; but at DL, even a DM will get the short end of the stick.
So, these figures to me just show how very cheap DL is and how DL treats its pax so much worse in case of irrops than other airlines do: while AA will readily rebook its pax on DL when things go wrong, when things go wrong at DL (and it so happens a lot), DL will fight tooth and nails and resist rebooking pax on any other airline, and thus of course the proportions will be like this. But, that just shows how very cheap DL is and how badly DL treats its pax, that's all - combining these supposed "stats" with my own experience across DL, AA and UA and observations.
While other airlines will readily rebook you on others, DL will always find some reason to block it and would rather delay you 24 or even 48 hours to fly on DL, vs. allow you to go on even another SkyTeam airline flight. Other airlines, in the meanwhile, will readily rebook you on another airline, in or out of their alliance, even if you're a nobody; but at DL, even a DM will get the short end of the stick.
So, these figures to me just show how very cheap DL is and how DL treats its pax so much worse in case of irrops than other airlines do: while AA will readily rebook its pax on DL when things go wrong, when things go wrong at DL (and it so happens a lot), DL will fight tooth and nails and resist rebooking pax on any other airline, and thus of course the proportions will be like this. But, that just shows how very cheap DL is and how badly DL treats its pax, that's all - combining these supposed "stats" with my own experience across DL, AA and UA and observations.
Yes, very cheap. How dare they invest billions in fleet upgrades and on time performance.
Also, how does AA refusing to pay make DL the cheap airline?