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DL and AA No More Interline Agreement; Then Interline Agreement Returns January 2018

DL and AA No More Interline Agreement; Then Interline Agreement Returns January 2018

Old Sep 11, 2015, 12:39 pm
  #46  
 
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Bummer for sure. In January 2011, weather was a CF in DFW, so AA rebooked me SMF-DFW-DCA to DL SMF-MSP-DCA. Incidentally, SMF-MSP was delayed (mechanical), so once arriving to MSP, I got a hotel, meal vouchers, and a transportation voucher at DCA.

Definitely a memorable trip; was in no hurry to get back to DC, so didn't mind the delays. If there were no interline agreements back then, I'd be stuck with AA in DFW without a comped hotel, or end up having to schlep through LAX as the only other connection point from SMF at that time on AA.
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Old Sep 11, 2015, 1:34 pm
  #47  
 
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Originally Posted by kop84
When you are off-lined the price the airline pays they other airline is not displayed. I would imagine that it's all tallied up on a monthly/quarterly type basis.
In my recent UA>DL experience, the ticket price did show up when it posted to my DL account since that's how DL awards miles these days. It was about double the cost of what I paid UA for the segment in the first place.

I suppose if there is a fixed, agreed-upon interline price of some sort then it all comes down to averages - some will be higher and some lower. And that is the matter that the two sides have to negotiate and agree upon (or not in this case).
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Old Sep 11, 2015, 1:51 pm
  #48  
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Originally Posted by HDQDD
By that same measure, DL's decision makes sense. Since AA is more likely to incur IROPS, DL gets the short side of the stick in the (current) agreement (i.e. having to carry IROP pax from OA at a very reduced rate). Can't blame DL for wanting to even the playing field.
These are seats that are on open flights, usually departing within the next couple of hours. They were not likely to sell, and if they were or suspected as they would, DL could decline the rebooking when contacted. And they do do that -- e.g., decline taking people on a flight if the earlier one hasn't departed on a mechanical for example.

No doubt this is going to be a hit for DL, as this is lost incremental revenue on a perishable product. In fact, it is likely a bigger hit for DL than AA, since DL likely receives more AA rebooks than they rebook on AA.

I suspect that DL is holding out for a more favorable rate since the deck is favoring them. They'd rather pay AA more for each rebook in return for getting more from AA for each rebook.
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Old Sep 11, 2015, 3:29 pm
  #49  
 
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Originally Posted by channa
These are seats that are on open flights, usually departing within the next couple of hours. They were not likely to sell, and if they were or suspected as they would, DL could decline the rebooking when contacted. And they do do that -- e.g., decline taking people on a flight if the earlier one hasn't departed on a mechanical for example.

No doubt this is going to be a hit for DL, as this is lost incremental revenue on a perishable product. In fact, it is likely a bigger hit for DL than AA, since DL likely receives more AA rebooks than they rebook on AA.

I suspect that DL is holding out for a more favorable rate since the deck is favoring them. They'd rather pay AA more for each rebook in return for getting more from AA for each rebook.
Unless DL feels there is more value in having the space available to protect their own passengers. True it's probably possible to decline but as I said earlier in the thread if the DFW ATL flight on AA gets a mechanical and the remaining seats on the DL DFW ATL flight are filled with AA passengers there is no room left for if the DL DFW DTW flight delays or cxlds to protect existing DL customers.
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Old Sep 11, 2015, 4:43 pm
  #50  
 
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Originally Posted by DWFI
I think a lot of posters seem to believe that these agreements provide for carriers rebooking pax at very cheap rates.
And that's because it's true. I used to work in RM.

Originally Posted by DWFI
From several friends who work in revenue management at a US carrier, rebooking pax onto OAL during IRROPS is very, very expensive. Not full Y fare (it is discounted from that) but certainly not some kind of bargain basement price.
I suggest your friends educate themselves on Rule 120.20/240 and interline IRROPS agreements. They're probably referring to the old school FIMs (Flight Interruption Manifest), which are rarely, if ever, used anymore. Worst case these days, they're just pushing the value of the pax's ticket to the other carrier.
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Old Sep 11, 2015, 4:49 pm
  #51  
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Originally Posted by mnredfox
Wow. Who poked whose eye first?
DL just wants more money, and DL is willing to burn bridges and ruin customer relationships to get more money sooner than later. Just look at what DL has done to SkyMiles customers in the main.

It's all about the Benjamins, and it starts with DL.
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Old Sep 11, 2015, 5:22 pm
  #52  
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Originally Posted by HeadInTheClouds
In my recent UA>DL experience, the ticket price did show up when it posted to my DL account since that's how DL awards miles these days. It was about double the cost of what I paid UA for the segment in the first place.

I suppose if there is a fixed, agreed-upon interline price of some sort then it all comes down to averages - some will be higher and some lower. And that is the matter that the two sides have to negotiate and agree upon (or not in this case).
Back in January I got rebooked from AA to DL on my outbound (booked as two one-ways) due to a mechanical delay and no other options on AA with availability for several hours. I was able to add my Skymiles # to the ticket and when it posted, the MQDs matched what I paid for the AA flight. The best part - I upgraded to FC with miles on the AA flight. When I was rebooked onto DL, it was booked as a Full Fare F and I received 200% MQMs. Given that I originally wanted to fly DL but didn't want to pay $300-$400 more for the ticket, this worked itself out to being the same as if I had booked and flown the whole trip on Delta to begin with rather than booking AA. And was still able to get my AA miles via ORC. ^
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Old Sep 11, 2015, 5:48 pm
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Originally Posted by MSPeconomist
I just skimmed through the thread on this on airliners.net. The issue seems to be that DL had asked for more money to renew the interline agreement with AA, at a time when all interline agreements were being renegotiated. In IROPs, the airline in difficulty basically grabs seat inventory on another carrier at the agreed discounted price. Since AA was sending more IROPed passengers to DL than DL was sending to AA, DL wanted AA to pay more for the service. AA refused and hence the interline agreement between DL and AA is ending.

It's generally unfortunate for passengers, but I can understand DL's viewpoint that it shouldn't essentially be subsidizing AA on average in IROPs.
Exactly. No wonder you are an economist.... Agree 100%.
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Old Sep 11, 2015, 6:49 pm
  #54  
 
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One of the other things that adds cost is checked bags. If AA "rules" a pax over to DL but doesn't get their bags moved over to DL (and this happens often, both ways)...then DL would incur the cost to deliver the bag and the negative customer perception. This cost (which my former company estimated at $82/bag in 2005) would negate any profit they got from carrying the IRROPed pax.

DL issued a statement. Wow, according to this they were getting 5 times as many IROP pax from AA as they were sending to AA.

http://news.delta.com/delta-and-amer...line-agreement

Originally Posted by channa
These are seats that are on open flights, usually departing within the next couple of hours. They were not likely to sell, and if they were or suspected as they would, DL could decline the rebooking when contacted. And they do do that -- e.g., decline taking people on a flight if the earlier one hasn't departed on a mechanical for example.

No doubt this is going to be a hit for DL, as this is lost incremental revenue on a perishable product. In fact, it is likely a bigger hit for DL than AA, since DL likely receives more AA rebooks than they rebook on AA.
Agreed. When I used to manage the ticket counter at an airline, I always tried to take OA pax if we had space/time and they had their bags with them.

However, I think it will be a short term hit. Long term it will give DL more control over their own inventory. You can't really plan for OA IROPs.

Originally Posted by SYRRDU
I have booked that flight (~6pm) 6 times over the last year on US/AA and it has been cancelled twice, it has been significantly late 3 times arriving well past midnight. And only once, the last time I flew it, it arrived late, but only about an hour. Granted, much of it was weather, with some mechanical, but I expect that the NEW AA will operate more like the old US.

DL could make a good decision flying PIT-RDU direct.
Haha, the day I was rerouted it was ~2 hours late too...but it was still the quickest option.

Last edited by Canarsie; Sep 15, 2015 at 9:12 pm Reason: Consolidation.
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Old Sep 11, 2015, 7:22 pm
  #55  
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Originally Posted by HDQDD
DL issued a statement. Wow, according to this they were getting 5 times as many IROP pax from AA as they were sending to AA.

http://news.delta.com/delta-and-amer...line-agreement
That's a dramatic indication of how good DL's operations are.
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Old Sep 11, 2015, 8:00 pm
  #56  
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Originally Posted by MSPeconomist
That's a dramatic indication of how good DL's operations are.
Combined in large part with internal policies which encourage rebooking on DL or giving refunds rather than booking on another carrier. No carrier is 100% immune from the unexpected happening and it is generally better for the customers to have more options to fix problems than less.
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Old Sep 11, 2015, 8:05 pm
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Such a bad decision on for both DL and AA.
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Old Sep 11, 2015, 8:19 pm
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Originally Posted by MSPeconomist
That's a dramatic indication of how good DL's operations are.
In addition to DL's far superior operations, they may also have more routings that can be sent via multiple hubs and greater frequency on busy routes, which allows a mis-connected passenger to simply wait for the next DL flight. AA seems to have more cities with service to only one of their hubs, and more cities served with just a couple flights a day, which means more need to rebook onto other airlines.
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Old Sep 11, 2015, 8:25 pm
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Originally Posted by sfozrhfco
Combined in large part with internal policies which encourage rebooking on DL or giving refunds rather than booking on another carrier. No carrier is 100% immune from the unexpected happening and it is generally better for the customers to have more options to fix problems than less.
Exactly. From my experience, having flown about equal DL, AA and UA over the last 1~2 years, DL has - by far - the worst reliability and on-time track record. Now, mind you, that is just my own personal experience based on my travel patterns.

While other airlines will readily rebook you on others, DL will always find some reason to block it and would rather delay you 24 or even 48 hours to fly on DL, vs. allow you to go on even another SkyTeam airline flight. Other airlines, in the meanwhile, will readily rebook you on another airline, in or out of their alliance, even if you're a nobody; but at DL, even a DM will get the short end of the stick.

So, these figures to me just show how very cheap DL is and how DL treats its pax so much worse in case of irrops than other airlines do: while AA will readily rebook its pax on DL when things go wrong, when things go wrong at DL (and it so happens a lot), DL will fight tooth and nails and resist rebooking pax on any other airline, and thus of course the proportions will be like this. But, that just shows how very cheap DL is and how badly DL treats its pax, that's all - combining these supposed "stats" with my own experience across DL, AA and UA and observations.
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Old Sep 11, 2015, 8:51 pm
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Originally Posted by RealHJ
Exactly. From my experience, having flown about equal DL, AA and UA over the last 1~2 years, DL has - by far - the worst reliability and on-time track record. Now, mind you, that is just my own personal experience based on my travel patterns.

While other airlines will readily rebook you on others, DL will always find some reason to block it and would rather delay you 24 or even 48 hours to fly on DL, vs. allow you to go on even another SkyTeam airline flight. Other airlines, in the meanwhile, will readily rebook you on another airline, in or out of their alliance, even if you're a nobody; but at DL, even a DM will get the short end of the stick.

So, these figures to me just show how very cheap DL is and how DL treats its pax so much worse in case of irrops than other airlines do: while AA will readily rebook its pax on DL when things go wrong, when things go wrong at DL (and it so happens a lot), DL will fight tooth and nails and resist rebooking pax on any other airline, and thus of course the proportions will be like this. But, that just shows how very cheap DL is and how badly DL treats its pax, that's all - combining these supposed "stats" with my own experience across DL, AA and UA and observations.
So basically, the facts contradict nearly everything you wrote but you decided to vent your spleen anyway? Do you have a Richard Anderson shaped stress ball?

Yes, very cheap. How dare they invest billions in fleet upgrades and on time performance.

Also, how does AA refusing to pay make DL the cheap airline?
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