Go Back  FlyerTalk Forums > Miles&Points > Airlines and Mileage Programs > Delta Air Lines | SkyMiles
Reload this Page >

Blistering NYT piece on SkyMiles: In DLs FF Magic Trick, Not Just Rabbits Disappear

Blistering NYT piece on SkyMiles: In DLs FF Magic Trick, Not Just Rabbits Disappear

Old Aug 2, 2015, 1:38 pm
  #61  
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 246
Originally Posted by LETTERBOY
DL doesn't need a good FF program to make money, clearly. And the number of customers who will choose one of the ME3 over DL based on the FF programs isn't enough to matter to DL in making decisions on changes to SkyMiles.
agree FF program isn't the only factor, but potentially this makes more people want to leave DL though unless you are more or less trap in DL dominate city ....
Kevin Liu is offline  
Old Aug 2, 2015, 1:40 pm
  #62  
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: DCA/IAD
Programs: AS, US, Hilton, BA, DL, SPG, AA, VS
Posts: 1,628
Originally Posted by Kevin Liu
agree FF program isn't the only factor, but potentially this makes more people want to leave DL though unless you are more or less trap in DL dominate city ....
It might make them want to, but obviously not enough of them do for it to make any difference in DL's calculations.
LETTERBOY is offline  
Old Aug 2, 2015, 2:26 pm
  #63  
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Long Beach, CA
Programs: DL DM
Posts: 5,292
Yet....despite all these low-rev gamers stomping their feet, the profits keep rolling in.

YES, the economy will change in the future. When it does, these low-rev clowns will be EASY and cheap to buy back.

Get used to a healthy airline industry. Good for DL, good for stockholders, good for the business, good for passengers. The only people it is bad for are the folks that game and those that don't pay a profitable fare.
bubbashow is offline  
Old Aug 2, 2015, 2:27 pm
  #64  
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Long Beach, CA
Programs: DL DM
Posts: 5,292
Originally Posted by Kevin Liu
agree FF program isn't the only factor, but potentially this makes more people want to leave DL though unless you are more or less trap in DL dominate city ....
NO it doesn't! The average flyer clicks on Kayak and picks the lowest price. Period. The cross section of people on FT and similar sites is nowhere near representative of the general flying public. Stomp up and down, throw more press releases to the NYC - hell on a slow news day, they might pick up another, but it doesn't change the fact the average passenger DOES NOT CARE.
bubbashow is offline  
Old Aug 2, 2015, 2:37 pm
  #65  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Back in Reds Country (DAY/CVG). Previously: SEA & SAT.
Programs: DL PM 1MM, AA PLAT, UA Silver, Marriott Bonvoy Titanium
Posts: 10,288
Originally Posted by bubbashow
NO it doesn't! The average flyer clicks on Kayak and picks the lowest price. Period. The cross section of people on FT and similar sites is nowhere near representative of the general flying public. Stomp up and down, throw more press releases to the NYC - hell on a slow news day, they might pick up another, but it doesn't change the fact the average passenger DOES NOT CARE.
+1
And even for many FFs, the miles and redemptions aren't even the most important part of the FF program. I maintain my DL status for a lot of other benefits of the Medallion program.

Originally Posted by bubbashow
Yet....despite all these low-rev gamers stomping their feet, the profits keep rolling in.

YES, the economy will change in the future. When it does, these low-rev clowns will be EASY and cheap to buy back.

Get used to a healthy airline industry. Good for DL, good for stockholders, good for the business, good for passengers. The only people it is bad for are the folks that game and those that don't pay a profitable fare.
I was with you up until the last statement in bold. It's not my job as a passenger to determine if my fare is profitable to DL or not. DL was willing to sell a fare at that price and so I bought it. Now if DL doesn't want to reward me the way they used to, that's fine and I can get the business decisions behind that. That doesn't mean I'm "gaming the system". It just means we're paying the published fare that is set by DL that meets my wants and needs.
ATOBTTR is offline  
Old Aug 2, 2015, 2:45 pm
  #66  
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Long Beach, CA
Programs: DL DM
Posts: 5,292
Originally Posted by ATOBTTR
I was with you up until the last statement in bold. It's not my job as a passenger to determine if my fare is profitable to DL or not. DL was willing to sell a fare at that price and so I bought it. Now if DL doesn't want to reward me the way they used to, that's fine and I can get the business decisions behind that. That doesn't mean I'm "gaming the system". It just means we're paying the published fare that is set by DL that meets my wants and needs.
I will agree with you on that. It is the understanding of the business sense of rewarding/not rewarding certain fares. I agree that a cheap fare is not necessarily gaming the system. There is a group of gamers on here that is stomping louder and louder because they have lost what they had (and the noose is tightening across the industry) and they can't stand it.

DL is making tremendous profits....which leads to a safe airline, an updated product, happy employees, and in the end happy customers. These doomsday predictions for DL are nauseating (at best) and indicate the true lack of critical thinking, business acumen, or basic sense by a lot of people.

My anecdotal experience is GREAT with redeeming awards. I just picked up a DTW-LHR on VS Upper class for 62,500 in a couple of weeks. Great use of miles IMO.

I love the way that DL treats me as a DM. They have always gone out of their way to get me where I want to go.
bubbashow is offline  
Old Aug 2, 2015, 3:52 pm
  #67  
In memoriam, FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: PIT
Programs: DM life is over 2MM PM now & NW MillionAir Wyndham Rewards Plat -Hotels.com Silver -Accor Silver
Posts: 15,408
Originally Posted by bubbashow
Yet....despite all these low-rev gamers stomping their feet, the profits keep rolling in.

Get used to a healthy airline industry. Good for DL, good for stockholders, good for the business, good for passengers. The only people it is bad for are the folks that game and those that don't pay a profitable fare.
Yes, consolidation has been GREAT for passengers. Less flights / choices. Higher prices. Award programs tightening up.

As to gamers, as you call them, they work with the system that was given to them. There's no way to game a system, when DL has created the rules! We work with whatever rules we are given. When DL feels they have created a loophole that allows so-called "gaming", they have every right to close it, and they have in the past.

Personally, even with each subsequent SkyMiles "enhancement", I don't complain. I realize that I'm a low fare, very frequent flyer, and I'm actually thankful for DM perks, and any free award travel I take. So far, I'm able to do what I need to do to maximize my benefits and my award travel, although it's getting a little tougher to do.

davetravels is offline  
Old Aug 2, 2015, 4:39 pm
  #68  
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Mostly living in the basement
Programs: Newly minted free agent; MR LT(!)TE, HH SE, BA SECM, DL MM, UA PS, 2V Fanboi, CBP GE
Posts: 5,105
Originally Posted by Kevin Liu
What I really don't understand is how can DL keep competing with ME3 if they keep devaluating their reward program.
Practically speaking, the US3 and the ME3 compete on very few routes.
bennos is offline  
Old Aug 2, 2015, 5:15 pm
  #69  
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Long Beach, CA
Programs: DL DM
Posts: 5,292
Originally Posted by davetravels
Yes, consolidation has been GREAT for passengers. Less flights / choices. Higher prices. Award programs tightening up.

There are sustainable operations now. Happier employees equal happier passengers. Profits = safety (IMO).

As to gamers, as you call them, they work with the system that was given to them. There's no way to game a system, when DL has created the rules! We work with whatever rules we are given. When DL feels they have created a loophole that allows so-called "gaming", they have every right to close it, and they have in the past.
I truly admire you for that stance. Many on here that have exploited loopholes are those that are screaming the loudest about the changes and how DL doesn't know what they are doing/who they are losing. I'd name names, but that is against policy.
bubbashow is offline  
Old Aug 2, 2015, 6:33 pm
  #70  
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: RMS
Programs: DL Plat, UA Gold, Bonvoy Titanium, Hilton Credit Card Diamond
Posts: 8,764
You all might find the "Rewarding Your Loyalty" article in this month's Sky magazine interesting. This link should hopefully take you to the first page. http://msp.imirus.com/Mpowered/book/vds2015/i8/p14

As for redemptions, I'm planning to make my next redemption to Europe for next September as soon as the dates are bookable. Checking routes for patterns in order to help with my search when the time comes to book, I'm seeing plenty of low J availability at 62.5k as long as you continue to follow the adage of booking partners and being prepared to get to the international gateway on your own dime. While the second part isn't ideal, it certainly isn't new.
mattp1987 is online now  
Old Aug 2, 2015, 7:07 pm
  #71  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: HH Diamond, Marriott Gold, IHG Gold, Hyatt something
Posts: 33,488
Originally Posted by LETTERBOY
DL doesn't need a good FF program to make money, clearly. And the number of customers who will choose one of the ME3 over DL based on the FF programs isn't enough to matter to DL in making decisions on changes to SkyMiles.
If you took away all the income that DL has generated in the last decade from the miles they've sold (Which is inherently part of their FF program), they would certainly not be around any longer.

If I were AMEX, I'd certainly want to be getting miles at 1/2 cent or less each.
Jaimito Cartero is offline  
Old Aug 2, 2015, 10:54 pm
  #72  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Bye Delta
Programs: AA EXP, HH Diamond, IHG Plat, Hyatt Plat, Marriott Plat, Nat'l Exec Elite, Avis Presidents Club
Posts: 16,247
Originally Posted by DL2SXM
java,

I don't base my travels on a bunch of what ifs and hypotheticals. I refuse to waste my time with what tomorrow may or may not bring. I have repeatedly found plenty of reasonable skymiles redemption award ticket opportunities and not just flights that I like to take.

To each is own I guess. Misery loves company so this thread is obviously not for me.
Here you go. Not a hypothetical anymore. 750k for round trip ATL-SYD, on direct flights, originating in the US.



When the trips that you want to take cost this many miles, you'll be happy to fork them over?
javabytes is offline  
Old Aug 2, 2015, 10:59 pm
  #73  
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: PHL (kinda, no airport is really close)
Programs: AA Exp, but not sure for how long. Enterprise Platinum woo-hoo!
Posts: 4,546
I personally would prefer an opaque reward chart and a useful search function, to a "fixed" 5-column chart when I can't find the actual flights because delta.dumb is useless.

In my very limited experience, I think the search has improved dramatically. I recently had cause to search SFO-BEG and return and found routings involving Aeroflot. I think that in the past only Air France, KLM, and Alitalia showed up on searches. I know that in the past I had to search each year for a round trip from North America to Bucharest, and it took a zillion phone calls because Tarom (the Romanian flag carrier) wasn't part of the DL search engine.
redtop43 is offline  
Old Aug 2, 2015, 11:05 pm
  #74  
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: ATL
Programs: Delta DM HH Diamond
Posts: 119
Yikes....

My fun this weekend was not being able to book the China eastern biz class 80,000 lax-can-Syd that showed up, shows up, but doesn't exist to book. After being denied online, agent 1 told me its 'not a legal booking' not true, agent 2 says there is no class availability, but yet there it is over and over again.

March 29th lax-can-Syd

Of another interest, all the VA biz seats seem to be gone. Y availability is there, but no biz even show up on VA

Put wife on the last (only) lax-Icn-Syd for 80,000

All Atlantas are 175,000

Good times

At least it's not 375,000 like above!
Rhinolicious is offline  
Old Aug 2, 2015, 11:57 pm
  #75  
Suspended
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Look up - On a ✈ DELTA ✈ jet NOW!
Programs: Blogger & Delta Diamond Medallion Million Miler
Posts: 4,174
Originally Posted by javabytes
Here you go. Not a hypothetical anymore. 750k for round trip ATL-SYD, on direct flights, originating in the US.



When the trips that you want to take cost this many miles, you'll be happy to fork them over?
Not as simple (or common) as yours but here is a one-way for over 1/2 million!

Renes Points is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Manage Preferences - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

This site is owned, operated, and maintained by MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Designated trademarks are the property of their respective owners.