Blistering NYT piece on SkyMiles: In DLs FF Magic Trick, Not Just Rabbits Disappear
#61
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 246
agree FF program isn't the only factor, but potentially this makes more people want to leave DL though unless you are more or less trap in DL dominate city ....
#62
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: DCA/IAD
Programs: AS, US, Hilton, BA, DL, SPG, AA, VS
Posts: 1,628
It might make them want to, but obviously not enough of them do for it to make any difference in DL's calculations.
#63
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Long Beach, CA
Programs: DL DM
Posts: 5,292
Yet....despite all these low-rev gamers stomping their feet, the profits keep rolling in.
YES, the economy will change in the future. When it does, these low-rev clowns will be EASY and cheap to buy back.
Get used to a healthy airline industry. Good for DL, good for stockholders, good for the business, good for passengers. The only people it is bad for are the folks that game and those that don't pay a profitable fare.
YES, the economy will change in the future. When it does, these low-rev clowns will be EASY and cheap to buy back.
Get used to a healthy airline industry. Good for DL, good for stockholders, good for the business, good for passengers. The only people it is bad for are the folks that game and those that don't pay a profitable fare.
#64
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Long Beach, CA
Programs: DL DM
Posts: 5,292
NO it doesn't! The average flyer clicks on Kayak and picks the lowest price. Period. The cross section of people on FT and similar sites is nowhere near representative of the general flying public. Stomp up and down, throw more press releases to the NYC - hell on a slow news day, they might pick up another, but it doesn't change the fact the average passenger DOES NOT CARE.
#65
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2015
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NO it doesn't! The average flyer clicks on Kayak and picks the lowest price. Period. The cross section of people on FT and similar sites is nowhere near representative of the general flying public. Stomp up and down, throw more press releases to the NYC - hell on a slow news day, they might pick up another, but it doesn't change the fact the average passenger DOES NOT CARE.
And even for many FFs, the miles and redemptions aren't even the most important part of the FF program. I maintain my DL status for a lot of other benefits of the Medallion program.
Yet....despite all these low-rev gamers stomping their feet, the profits keep rolling in.
YES, the economy will change in the future. When it does, these low-rev clowns will be EASY and cheap to buy back.
Get used to a healthy airline industry. Good for DL, good for stockholders, good for the business, good for passengers. The only people it is bad for are the folks that game and those that don't pay a profitable fare.
YES, the economy will change in the future. When it does, these low-rev clowns will be EASY and cheap to buy back.
Get used to a healthy airline industry. Good for DL, good for stockholders, good for the business, good for passengers. The only people it is bad for are the folks that game and those that don't pay a profitable fare.
#66
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Long Beach, CA
Programs: DL DM
Posts: 5,292
I was with you up until the last statement in bold. It's not my job as a passenger to determine if my fare is profitable to DL or not. DL was willing to sell a fare at that price and so I bought it. Now if DL doesn't want to reward me the way they used to, that's fine and I can get the business decisions behind that. That doesn't mean I'm "gaming the system". It just means we're paying the published fare that is set by DL that meets my wants and needs.
DL is making tremendous profits....which leads to a safe airline, an updated product, happy employees, and in the end happy customers. These doomsday predictions for DL are nauseating (at best) and indicate the true lack of critical thinking, business acumen, or basic sense by a lot of people.
My anecdotal experience is GREAT with redeeming awards. I just picked up a DTW-LHR on VS Upper class for 62,500 in a couple of weeks. Great use of miles IMO.
I love the way that DL treats me as a DM. They have always gone out of their way to get me where I want to go.
#67
In memoriam, FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 2005
Location: PIT
Programs: DM life is over 2MM PM now & NW MillionAir Wyndham Rewards Plat -Hotels.com Silver -Accor Silver
Posts: 15,408
Yet....despite all these low-rev gamers stomping their feet, the profits keep rolling in.
Get used to a healthy airline industry. Good for DL, good for stockholders, good for the business, good for passengers. The only people it is bad for are the folks that game and those that don't pay a profitable fare.
Get used to a healthy airline industry. Good for DL, good for stockholders, good for the business, good for passengers. The only people it is bad for are the folks that game and those that don't pay a profitable fare.
As to gamers, as you call them, they work with the system that was given to them. There's no way to game a system, when DL has created the rules! We work with whatever rules we are given. When DL feels they have created a loophole that allows so-called "gaming", they have every right to close it, and they have in the past.
Personally, even with each subsequent SkyMiles "enhancement", I don't complain. I realize that I'm a low fare, very frequent flyer, and I'm actually thankful for DM perks, and any free award travel I take. So far, I'm able to do what I need to do to maximize my benefits and my award travel, although it's getting a little tougher to do.
#68
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Mostly living in the basement
Programs: Newly minted free agent; MR LT(!)TE, HH SE, BA SECM, DL MM, UA PS, 2V Fanboi, CBP GE
Posts: 5,105
#69
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Long Beach, CA
Programs: DL DM
Posts: 5,292
Yes, consolidation has been GREAT for passengers. Less flights / choices. Higher prices. Award programs tightening up.
There are sustainable operations now. Happier employees equal happier passengers. Profits = safety (IMO).
As to gamers, as you call them, they work with the system that was given to them. There's no way to game a system, when DL has created the rules! We work with whatever rules we are given. When DL feels they have created a loophole that allows so-called "gaming", they have every right to close it, and they have in the past.
There are sustainable operations now. Happier employees equal happier passengers. Profits = safety (IMO).
As to gamers, as you call them, they work with the system that was given to them. There's no way to game a system, when DL has created the rules! We work with whatever rules we are given. When DL feels they have created a loophole that allows so-called "gaming", they have every right to close it, and they have in the past.
#70
Join Date: May 2013
Location: RMS
Programs: DL Plat, UA Gold, Bonvoy Titanium, Hilton Credit Card Diamond
Posts: 8,764
You all might find the "Rewarding Your Loyalty" article in this month's Sky magazine interesting. This link should hopefully take you to the first page. http://msp.imirus.com/Mpowered/book/vds2015/i8/p14
As for redemptions, I'm planning to make my next redemption to Europe for next September as soon as the dates are bookable. Checking routes for patterns in order to help with my search when the time comes to book, I'm seeing plenty of low J availability at 62.5k as long as you continue to follow the adage of booking partners and being prepared to get to the international gateway on your own dime. While the second part isn't ideal, it certainly isn't new.
As for redemptions, I'm planning to make my next redemption to Europe for next September as soon as the dates are bookable. Checking routes for patterns in order to help with my search when the time comes to book, I'm seeing plenty of low J availability at 62.5k as long as you continue to follow the adage of booking partners and being prepared to get to the international gateway on your own dime. While the second part isn't ideal, it certainly isn't new.
#71
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: HH Diamond, Marriott Gold, IHG Gold, Hyatt something
Posts: 33,488
If I were AMEX, I'd certainly want to be getting miles at 1/2 cent or less each.
#72
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Join Date: Apr 2009
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java,
I don't base my travels on a bunch of what ifs and hypotheticals. I refuse to waste my time with what tomorrow may or may not bring. I have repeatedly found plenty of reasonable skymiles redemption award ticket opportunities and not just flights that I like to take.
To each is own I guess. Misery loves company so this thread is obviously not for me.
I don't base my travels on a bunch of what ifs and hypotheticals. I refuse to waste my time with what tomorrow may or may not bring. I have repeatedly found plenty of reasonable skymiles redemption award ticket opportunities and not just flights that I like to take.
To each is own I guess. Misery loves company so this thread is obviously not for me.
When the trips that you want to take cost this many miles, you'll be happy to fork them over?
#73
Join Date: May 2008
Location: PHL (kinda, no airport is really close)
Programs: AA Exp, but not sure for how long. Enterprise Platinum woo-hoo!
Posts: 4,546
I personally would prefer an opaque reward chart and a useful search function, to a "fixed" 5-column chart when I can't find the actual flights because delta.dumb is useless.
In my very limited experience, I think the search has improved dramatically. I recently had cause to search SFO-BEG and return and found routings involving Aeroflot. I think that in the past only Air France, KLM, and Alitalia showed up on searches. I know that in the past I had to search each year for a round trip from North America to Bucharest, and it took a zillion phone calls because Tarom (the Romanian flag carrier) wasn't part of the DL search engine.
In my very limited experience, I think the search has improved dramatically. I recently had cause to search SFO-BEG and return and found routings involving Aeroflot. I think that in the past only Air France, KLM, and Alitalia showed up on searches. I know that in the past I had to search each year for a round trip from North America to Bucharest, and it took a zillion phone calls because Tarom (the Romanian flag carrier) wasn't part of the DL search engine.
#74
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: ATL
Programs: Delta DM HH Diamond
Posts: 119
Yikes....
My fun this weekend was not being able to book the China eastern biz class 80,000 lax-can-Syd that showed up, shows up, but doesn't exist to book. After being denied online, agent 1 told me its 'not a legal booking' not true, agent 2 says there is no class availability, but yet there it is over and over again.
March 29th lax-can-Syd
Of another interest, all the VA biz seats seem to be gone. Y availability is there, but no biz even show up on VA
Put wife on the last (only) lax-Icn-Syd for 80,000
All Atlantas are 175,000
Good times
At least it's not 375,000 like above!
My fun this weekend was not being able to book the China eastern biz class 80,000 lax-can-Syd that showed up, shows up, but doesn't exist to book. After being denied online, agent 1 told me its 'not a legal booking' not true, agent 2 says there is no class availability, but yet there it is over and over again.
March 29th lax-can-Syd
Of another interest, all the VA biz seats seem to be gone. Y availability is there, but no biz even show up on VA
Put wife on the last (only) lax-Icn-Syd for 80,000
All Atlantas are 175,000
Good times
At least it's not 375,000 like above!
#75
Suspended
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Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Look up - On a ✈ DELTA ✈ jet NOW!
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