pbarnette

1) I don't think DL cares about how competitive SkyMiles is.
2) I don't think any other carrier is doing anything other than offering distressed inventory for low awards.

I think you give DL too much credit for selling out their planes. I certainly don't think that they achieve near-100% paid loads in J.

You seem a bit confused as to how the accounting works and what it "costs" DL. The cost has already been incurred at the time the mile was earned. Selling an award seat results in revenue just as if they sold it for cash. The only question is if the revenue recognized from releasing the liability is comparable to the revenue from selling it to another willing buyer.

The only way that DL would incur any material additional cost to service an award is if they added seats specifically for awards. There certainly have been some airlines that have briefly had excess capacity that was, effectively, just for rewards (I'm looking at you, Lufthansa, when you had WAY too much F capacity), but I don't think that is the case generally and certainly not with a carrier like DL that has been aggressive in right-sizing aircraft and cabin sizes.

gooselee

I mean, just as a data point, a couple weeks ago I booked award tickets to YUL and back. One in Y at 25k RT, one in F at 50k RT.

At the time of booking, coach was selling for ~$700 and first was something like $1,100 IIRC. This was a couple months in advance of the flight and L/A fares, so not close-in, last-minute pricing. Other airlines could be had for around $100 less in coach, but with unworkable schedules and 1 or 2 stops in each direction.

Whether it's demand for that route or just connecting traffic, DL did such a great job of selling out those planes that they took 2-3 VDBs on each flight. Did my 25k RDM "cost" DL a $700 seat? Probably not. But it certainly had some sort of opportunity cost to them.

michaelr

I just booked the last two one way tickets back to Europe. Again, I had no issues getting two econ tickets with good connections. This time I could have actually booked MSP-AMS on Delta metal but a connection though ATL via KLM was better.

Even though most of these tickets were booked in Y, I could have gotten many legs in business. The passengers are mostly < 10 years so business just did not make much sense.

Bob Bixby

I need you to show screenshots of these prices.

I have been searching for any hub plus ORD to AMS after the June 1 2016 change and the cheapest y fare is 55,000 and business is close to 180,000.

You can talk about the fares you see, but until you show some screenshots they cannot be believed. Also comparing partner fares to Delta doesn't work as well.

My trip to JNB has a minimum of 95,000 Mile each way in Delta coach vs 50,000 partner miles. Business is astronomically different, 160,000 partner miles versus a minimum of 350,000 Delta Skymiles. You can find some low availabiliy using VS these days but KLM and Air France has dried up for next June/July.

michaelr

2 people OMA-HAJ with multiple days available in both Y and Business.

gooselee

What motivation does anyone here have to just randomly make up and post information?

And, why ignore partner awards? Partners often represent some of the best redemption values for ANY FFP.

michaelr

I thought I follow up one more time. Delta is really exceptionally generous this summer about opening up their schedule next year. I just booked 5 economy tickets for 125k from OMA-RSW round trip 7/7-7/17. AA and UA have almost zip for 5 people or even 2. Delta is wide open for multiple flights every single day at the lowest level.

I could not use Delta miles for the longest time, now it seems it is the other way around. Maybe the constant whining over at boardingarea.com is doing the trick.

Many here may think that 5 econ tickets isn't great usage of miles. I'd rather have my kids with me in econ than getting drunk by myself in first...

MSPeconomist

I'm sure your fellow passengers would agree. FAs too.

However, 125K is (or at least was) the low price for a TATL RT in D1.

fti

Sure, for one person, not five

beachmouse

For fun & giggles, I tried pricing a few round trip flights VPS-AMS next summer. Depart June 1, return June 10, cattle car class.

Price with miles- 60,000 miles + 83.50

Price with miles + cash- 62,500 miles + 337.90

Okay, Delta pricing algorithm developers, please put down the crack pipe ASAP.

xliioper

While the outbound flights may be the same, if you actually click through and select the flights, you will see that the return flights are different. Miles+Cash tickets can only be used on DL metal flights and there are cases where there is low level availability on a partner, but not DL metal flights for the return date. This bumps up the mileage required for the Miles+Cash case since they are limited to the DL flights. In the nominal case where there are no lower level partner options, you will save 15,000 miles on an economy ticket in exchange for $279. The cost to buy that many miles with Buy Miles would be $525 (.035/mile). The target here is infrequent flyers with smaller balances trying to make up the shortfall in their balance, not FTer's with a large balance who can cover the full amount.

michaelr

I am going to resurrect this year old thread of mine. I am booking the exact trip again this year. 5 trips from the US to Germany and back booked as one ways in Economy. Delta's award availability in Economy is outstanding (mostly on partners, of course). DL's pricing stinks at 30,000 miles and Euro 270 in fees. AF charges 25k and $195 for the exact same flight.

javabytes

If you book as round trips you'll be able to avoid the international origination surcharge.

PassengerPoldberg

@michaelr do you live in Omaha?

youvesaiditall

Found a few decent redemptions lately. Round trip from CLT to YUL was only 19k+$55 taxes round trip in Y--though I am likely to get upgraded anyways. The fare on that ticket was $580.

Also just did a one way from CLT to CPH for 62.5 in J. Rewards are no doubt tougher to find, but I have been able to still effectively use them.