BiggAW

No actually I haven't. I'm surprised that DHS didn't just shut it down permanently post-9/11.

... is a premium cabin? Are you talking about the BS that DL does where you can pay more money for seats? That's a complete scam, as they stole an inch from the normal seats so that they can try to sell it back to you for more money. They're like $40 more. Basically a racket is what it is. I am not paying one dime more than I need to for an adequately sized airframe that is airworthy. Beyond being big enough and airworthy, nothing else matters. Heck, I wish WN could remove the reclining function of the seats and the window shades. I think RyanAir wanted to get rid of window shades, but the European regulators wouldn't allow them. I never realized what a waste of weight the window shades are until I read about that. WN doesn't push efficiency right to the edge, although they generally do a pretty good job of keeping true to the LCC model and offering low fares.

DL's seats have like an inch LESS of room than WN's. AS is pretty good, I like flying on them, they are about the same as WN space wise, although it's annoying because they use the outdated old assigned seat model. For a while, I had only ever flown NWA and DL, and I hated flying as a result. I started to like flying when I started flying WN. And in terms of plane interiors, I saw the nicest interior I have EVER seen last week on WN on one of their new 737-800's. I'm not sure how you would make the interior any nicer than that.

I didn't say WN went anywhere else. They obviously don't fly across the ocean, hence, they aren't useful for that. But for the trip I'm taking, you just can't beat $89 each way. You're not even going to beat it driving in an OG Honda Insight. WN is pretty much the be-all, end-all for CONUS flying, even though they don't do anything international.

BiggAW

You should thank them for their efficiency. Redundant airports are inefficient, especially when MDW is the big hub, so it can support a much wider driving radius than non-hub airports can time-wise, since you can fly direct to virtually anywhere else.

Moline and Bloomington are served very well by WN out of MDW, just like Peoria. Parking is a legitimate complaint, many airports need to deal with parking in a more effective manner that's not so absurdly overpriced.

gooselee

Your posts continue to show how myopic your worldview is.

I'm glad you enjoy WN. That is obviously your preference and you have every right to it. There's certainly nothing wrong with WN if they meet your needs.

Others out there prefer other things or have different needs, that's all. You don't get to dictate what other people like or need.

JohnnyRockets

Haha, this is fun.

All of this debate without considering the most important factor. Airlines' goal is to make money. And Revenue > Cost = Making money.

Flying a DASH-8 and save 5 hrs of driving to bigger airport to fly a 738 might cost more on airfare but that's what airlines factor in, small town less pax need more revenue to offset cost.

And oh yes, the interior debate. I think DL's 738 also comes with similar interiors.

As a pax, I fly WN on some routes, agree they are a good airline. But loyalty does pay off if you fly legacy carriers often.

pkk

Hmm, well served must be a political definition. If I had thought about flying WN this thread has convinced me not to even consider it.

air1jdg

OK, I don't say much on here but I'm 6'4" and 240. I travel DL everywhere on whatever type of plane they offer with the best fare. If I need to go to the NYC/North Jersey area I will go to LGA or EWR, usually mainline. But recently I had to get there quick and the fare was over $1000.00 so I opted to fly into SWF. This airport serves a large community and I saw many people in the community flying out on DL and US planes (all regional and even some propeller driven). Your assumptions and observations may be true to you but they certainly don't apply to everybody. Driving 4.5 hours from a major airport has no appeal to me at all vs. flying on a CRJ.

BiggAW

The problem is that all the mini jets are clogging up the whole system. The ones going to mid-sized airports should be replaced with fewer, larger flights, a la WN, and the ones that go to markets that can't support a dozen 737's a day should be eliminated completely. A very small proportion of people flying fly out of those tiny airports, and their interests shouldn't trump those of the masses trying to have reliable, on time service out of the huge airports like JFK, ORD, LAX, etc.

Quite true. And that's why keeping costs in control is so important. Southwest figured out what the legacy airlines still can't seem to get through their brains. It's just not economical to serve an airport unless you can drop 12+ 737's in a day, and average 75% load factor on that capacity. The overhead is just too high to handle any fewer than those 1500+ passengers in and out of the airport each day. Any airport that can't support those volumes at a bare minimum should be cut off of the US commercial map.

That's the problem. It's uneconomical to fly to a city where you can't drop a dozen 737's in a day and more or less fill them up. So the result is absurdly high ticket prices, which becomes self-defeating since far fewer people can or will pay them. The result is that most people in Peoria, Bloomington, Champaign, and Davenport go to Midway or O'Hare, most people in Duluth go to Minneapolis, most people in New Haven go to Hartford, most people in Newburgh-Beacon go to EWR, JFK, LGA, or ALB, most people in MV go to BOS or PVD, most people in Alpena or Pellston go to DTW, etc, etc, so the small city/town airports serve a tiny minority of the flying public in the US, yet their mini jets cause a disproportionately large amount of congestion at the large airports.

Today's solution should be to add more parking garages at the big airports, and add capacity through efficiency and elimination of the mini-jets. The longer term goal should be to add robust regional rail transit to create multi-modal connectivity to the big airports to effectively serve more people and more places using fewer airports.

If cheap, reliable nonstop service to basically anywhere in the lower 48 isn't well served, then I don't know what is. I envy those folks, at least in terms of travel, for being able to go anywhere in the lower 48 with no connection.

That's a great example of an airport that should be cut off the US commercial map. It's an hour and a half to EWR. Not sure what the long-term parking situation is on MN, but that also provides transit links to JFK (directly) and LGA (via bus). ALB would be another option for a less congested experience.

DougSkymiles

I haven't read any of this thread prior to now,b ut was curious as to why a title like '717 Headroom' could occupy four pages. So now I know - it's being trolled.

BiggAW

I'm not trolling.

DougSkymiles

Your original post ask for opinions on whether or not you could fit on a 717, and many have responded that you would. Most of us on here have flown both the 717 and 737, including the SWA version, and prefer the 717. You may not have the same experience, but the only way to know is fly it sometime and see. If you don't, then you will know.

BiggAW

Right, the original question was answered. The 717 has plenty of room for me, and won't be any more miserable than any of the other DL mainline jets. I may end up on one at some point, and at least I know it's adequate. Of the DL jets, the MD-88/90 is one of my favorites, although DL doesn't have anything on WN's or AS's B737 fleets.

DougSkymiles

I appreciate your opinion.

gooselee

As do I.

However, I reiterate: One person's opinion does not get to dictate what other people want or need (and what the airlines can apparently sell if they are continuing to fly those routes).

kettle1

This is a joke correct?

Perhaps as mentioned above: a troll.

Just a hint, you can simply type southwest.com instead of flysouthwest.com. It will save you three key stokes, since you are so busy finding those bargains on WN.

Also, LAS is WN's 2nd largest hub. Shocker! I have not seen that mentioned by the OP.

I fly WN and know how to play the game. WN is no longer a LCC. If you want low fares, try Spirit, Frontier or Allegiant.

The World does not revolve around NYC or BOS. It revolves around where you live. I live in LAS and HNL and until last year TPE as well.

I still think this is Troll material. Enjoy WN. I have made a lot of money with their stock over the past 20 years. My back can not take the slim line seats.

Please bush up on the airline business before spreading falsehoods.

If you do not have person knowledge - Google.com is your friend.

What happened to the other troll thread that was started a while back by the same OP?

BiggAW

If the American people, as a whole, especially those in the big hub cities, got to vote on it, and actually understood the situation, I think it would come out overwhelmingly to streamline the operations and cut off the small rinky-dink routes to de-congest and increase [seat] capacity at the big hubs by decreasing the total number of aircraft operations.

No. I've flown both.

True. At one point, they were two different sites, but I think they're the same now. flysouthwest.com just sounds better.

Aaaaaaand?

True. WN is in a weird position between LCC and legacy, but they aren't truly either anymore. However, no other airline serves almost the entire CONUS with an LCC mindset, even if they aren't as aggressive as some of the newer LCC's.

Are their seats any narrower than DL or AS? Far as I can tell, DL's seats are the same width, but with less legroom.

I actually have a book about Southwest's business model on my reading list, and why they were so successful at introducing lean into the airline world. They have eliminated so much waste from being an airline. Aircraft sitting at gates is waste. Assigned seats is waste. First class is waste. Tiny airports with only a few flights a day is waste. DL does all those things, all of which cost a lot of money and are not necessary, as WN has proven.

It's still chillin' out there somewhere. I'm sure you can find it.