Jan 23, 2015, 12:14 pm
Last edit by: 3Cforme
2015 award rules:
All award travel booked with Delta miles must be booked online or through Delta reservations - even if all travel is on partner carriers.
As of 2/6/2015, award charts are gone from delta.com.
From ~April 7, 2017, partner awards at lowest level may cost more than DL awards at low level. Including a Delta-operated segment appears to yield DL pricing instead of partner pricing. Remember - awards are one way; you may need a Delta segment in each direction to avoid partner-level pricing.
You can book one-ways but a one-way departing Europe will incur international origin surcharges shown as YQ or YR in the detailed pricing breakdown.
Some of Delta's lowest award redemption levels require round-trip purchases, so searches one-way will not display these fares. Some of the lowest award levels can also have significant advance purchase requirements. These can be 14 or 21-days for domestic awards; as much as 90 days for international. Do Advanced Search on LBJ's posts for 'award, advance purchase'.
To see the lowest award prices/itineraries for a selected date it may be necessary to change the display sort order from Best Match to Price.
Between origin and destination one is allowed a max of three segments on US & Canada itins, and four segments internationally each way. City pairs or routings that require more segments will have a fare break and demand more miles.
Open-jaws are still allowed, for example you can book JFK-BCN, FCO-JFK.
Stopovers (spending more than 24 hours in any city on your international itinerary, or more than 4 hours domestic) are no longer allowed. Origin and destination are not stopovers. See posts #27 and #28 for examples of successful overnight connections on international itineraries.
Married segment logic may be applied to award tickets. Even if AAA-BBB is available in low and BBB-CCC is available in low, AAA-BBB-CCC may not price at the low level.
Multi-city award search may give odd results if you are trying to construct an itinerary segment by segment. Pricing may be additive, as AAA-BBB + BBB-CCC instead of through-pricing AAA-CCC as a single award redemption.
Awards that have segments on two or more award bands may price additively, not just the highest band applied between origin and destination. For example, if TVC-DTW is band 3 and DTW-FLL is band 1, the award TVC-DTW-FLL may price as band 3 + band 1. Because of this, if you are originating in or traveling to an area served by multiple airports you may find significant pricing differences at nearby airports.
Delta.com accepts NYC for LGA/JFK/EWR (but don't forget White Plains HPN, Islip ISP, and Newburgh SWF); WAS for BWI/DCA/IAD; CHI for ORD/MDW; PAR for CDG/ORY; LON for LGW/LHR/LCY; SAO for GRU/VCP/CGH; BUE for EZE/AEP. I'm not aware of single codes for the Bay Area, SoCal, nor SoFlorida.
Not tested with new partner pricing 4/4/17: This is not new but still in effect: mixing award level 2 - 5 DL flights with partner flights results in additive pricing because partner flights always book in the lowest award tier. For example, you travel US-AMS in DL medium level award and you connect AMS-anywhere in Europe on KLM, you will pay US-Europe medium level award cost + low level intra-Europe price.
AF/KL Classic Award flights you see at airfrance.us may not be bookable with DL miles, therefore you should not use airfrance.us to search for AF/KL flights if you want to book with DL miles. With DL miles, AF availability seems to be good at 10-11 months out.
Delta's mobile site - m.delta.com - may yield available partner flights even when delta.com does not. This was observed on ~9/12/17.
List of DL partners that can be booked online:
Aeroflot (first reported 3/25/2015)
Aerolineas Argentina AR (first reported 11 March 15)
Aeromexico (AM is back as of 7 March)
Air France
Alaska Airlines - terminated 4/30/2017
Alitalia
China Airlines (first reported 24 Feb 15)
China Eastern
China Southern
Garuda Indonesia (reported/confirmed 10 March 15)
GOL G3 (first reported 3/4/2015)
Jet Airways 9W, first reported 2/12/2017
KLM
Korean Air
Middle East Airlines, per SkyMilesTeam 1 April 15
Saudia Airlines, per SkyMilesTeam 1 April 15
Shanghai Airlines FM (spotted in late June 2016)
TAROM RO (spotted on 2/14/2016)
Vietnam Airlines
Virgin Atlantic
Virgin Australia
WestJet
Xiamen Airlines MF (spotted on 10/14/16)
Hawaiian HA can be booked online as inter-island, or as multi-city. Delta.com award searches will give an error instead of constructing a connection like ATL-HNL-ITO. If used in conjunction with another carrier to Hawaii mileage will be additive. Example: 22,500 miles SLC-HNL + 7,500 miles HNL-Hilo.
Any travel using any of the other partners must be booked by phone.
Air Europa UX
Air Tahiti Nui TN
Czech OK
Kenya Airways KQ - It's been reported that segments on KQ can only be booked by an agent familiar with the old-school long sell process. Details here: https://onemileatatime.com/long-sell-airline-tickets/
Delta.com now publishes the list of blackout dates for KE Korean Airlines: http://www.delta.com/content/www/en_...nditions.html# (click on AWARD TRAVEL AND PAY WITH MILES RULES & CONDITIONS, and then scroll down to "Blackout dates" section).
Useful threads:
Which DL Partners Incur Fuel Surcharges (YQ/YR) when Redeeming DL miles for an Award
2015 Korean Air Blackout dates for DL Skymiles redemptions Fare rules again show blackout dates for KE travel as mentioned by ENFO's post 2 May 15.
Award Ticket Success - Post It Here
Using SkyMiles on SkyTeam & Other Partners Master Thread - Please do not post questions or discussion in this thread. For discussion, use this other thread: Using SkyMiles on SkyTeam & Other Partners: The Discussion Thread
Ongoing issues with booking awards on Kenya Airways
Anyone book a flight on KQ with Skymiles in 2015?
Phantom availability on AZ (and a possible solution)
Earn and redeem on Aerolineas Argentinas
Virgin Atlantic Award Seats Available at Delta.com but not on Phone, How to Book? (with possible solution in post #8)
New SkyMiles Award Pricing For Travel On or After October 1, 2016 New Award Pricing Travel after Oct 2016
All award travel booked with Delta miles must be booked online or through Delta reservations - even if all travel is on partner carriers.
As of 2/6/2015, award charts are gone from delta.com.
From ~April 7, 2017, partner awards at lowest level may cost more than DL awards at low level. Including a Delta-operated segment appears to yield DL pricing instead of partner pricing. Remember - awards are one way; you may need a Delta segment in each direction to avoid partner-level pricing.
You can book one-ways but a one-way departing Europe will incur international origin surcharges shown as YQ or YR in the detailed pricing breakdown.
Some of Delta's lowest award redemption levels require round-trip purchases, so searches one-way will not display these fares. Some of the lowest award levels can also have significant advance purchase requirements. These can be 14 or 21-days for domestic awards; as much as 90 days for international. Do Advanced Search on LBJ's posts for 'award, advance purchase'.
To see the lowest award prices/itineraries for a selected date it may be necessary to change the display sort order from Best Match to Price.
Between origin and destination one is allowed a max of three segments on US & Canada itins, and four segments internationally each way. City pairs or routings that require more segments will have a fare break and demand more miles.
Open-jaws are still allowed, for example you can book JFK-BCN, FCO-JFK.
Stopovers (spending more than 24 hours in any city on your international itinerary, or more than 4 hours domestic) are no longer allowed. Origin and destination are not stopovers. See posts #27 and #28 for examples of successful overnight connections on international itineraries.
Married segment logic may be applied to award tickets. Even if AAA-BBB is available in low and BBB-CCC is available in low, AAA-BBB-CCC may not price at the low level.
Multi-city award search may give odd results if you are trying to construct an itinerary segment by segment. Pricing may be additive, as AAA-BBB + BBB-CCC instead of through-pricing AAA-CCC as a single award redemption.
Awards that have segments on two or more award bands may price additively, not just the highest band applied between origin and destination. For example, if TVC-DTW is band 3 and DTW-FLL is band 1, the award TVC-DTW-FLL may price as band 3 + band 1. Because of this, if you are originating in or traveling to an area served by multiple airports you may find significant pricing differences at nearby airports.
Delta.com accepts NYC for LGA/JFK/EWR (but don't forget White Plains HPN, Islip ISP, and Newburgh SWF); WAS for BWI/DCA/IAD; CHI for ORD/MDW; PAR for CDG/ORY; LON for LGW/LHR/LCY; SAO for GRU/VCP/CGH; BUE for EZE/AEP. I'm not aware of single codes for the Bay Area, SoCal, nor SoFlorida.
Not tested with new partner pricing 4/4/17: This is not new but still in effect: mixing award level 2 - 5 DL flights with partner flights results in additive pricing because partner flights always book in the lowest award tier. For example, you travel US-AMS in DL medium level award and you connect AMS-anywhere in Europe on KLM, you will pay US-Europe medium level award cost + low level intra-Europe price.
AF/KL Classic Award flights you see at airfrance.us may not be bookable with DL miles, therefore you should not use airfrance.us to search for AF/KL flights if you want to book with DL miles. With DL miles, AF availability seems to be good at 10-11 months out.
Delta's mobile site - m.delta.com - may yield available partner flights even when delta.com does not. This was observed on ~9/12/17.
List of DL partners that can be booked online:
Aeroflot (first reported 3/25/2015)
Aerolineas Argentina AR (first reported 11 March 15)
Aeromexico (AM is back as of 7 March)
Air France
Alaska Airlines - terminated 4/30/2017
Alitalia
China Airlines (first reported 24 Feb 15)
China Eastern
China Southern
Garuda Indonesia (reported/confirmed 10 March 15)
GOL G3 (first reported 3/4/2015)
Jet Airways 9W, first reported 2/12/2017
KLM
Korean Air
Middle East Airlines, per SkyMilesTeam 1 April 15
Saudia Airlines, per SkyMilesTeam 1 April 15
Shanghai Airlines FM (spotted in late June 2016)
TAROM RO (spotted on 2/14/2016)
Vietnam Airlines
Virgin Atlantic
Virgin Australia
WestJet
Xiamen Airlines MF (spotted on 10/14/16)
Hawaiian HA can be booked online as inter-island, or as multi-city. Delta.com award searches will give an error instead of constructing a connection like ATL-HNL-ITO. If used in conjunction with another carrier to Hawaii mileage will be additive. Example: 22,500 miles SLC-HNL + 7,500 miles HNL-Hilo.
Any travel using any of the other partners must be booked by phone.
Air Europa UX
Air Tahiti Nui TN
Czech OK
Kenya Airways KQ - It's been reported that segments on KQ can only be booked by an agent familiar with the old-school long sell process. Details here: https://onemileatatime.com/long-sell-airline-tickets/
Delta.com now publishes the list of blackout dates for KE Korean Airlines: http://www.delta.com/content/www/en_...nditions.html# (click on AWARD TRAVEL AND PAY WITH MILES RULES & CONDITIONS, and then scroll down to "Blackout dates" section).
Useful threads:
Which DL Partners Incur Fuel Surcharges (YQ/YR) when Redeeming DL miles for an Award
2015 Korean Air Blackout dates for DL Skymiles redemptions Fare rules again show blackout dates for KE travel as mentioned by ENFO's post 2 May 15.
Award Ticket Success - Post It Here
Using SkyMiles on SkyTeam & Other Partners Master Thread - Please do not post questions or discussion in this thread. For discussion, use this other thread: Using SkyMiles on SkyTeam & Other Partners: The Discussion Thread
Ongoing issues with booking awards on Kenya Airways
Anyone book a flight on KQ with Skymiles in 2015?
Phantom availability on AZ (and a possible solution)
Earn and redeem on Aerolineas Argentinas
Virgin Atlantic Award Seats Available at Delta.com but not on Phone, How to Book? (with possible solution in post #8)
New SkyMiles Award Pricing For Travel On or After October 1, 2016 New Award Pricing Travel after Oct 2016
Booking Delta Award Tickets, 2015 on
Feb 24, 2015, 12:41 pm
#61
Original Poster
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Melbourne, Florida, USA
Posts: 2,983
Feb 24, 2015, 12:45 pm
#62
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: HNL
Programs: DL PM/1MM, BW DE (lifetime), HH DE, Marriott PE (lifetime), National Emerald Executive
Posts: 7,204
With Polaris non-DL connections now rarely show, so best to search for direct flights, e.g. HKG-PVG for MU, that for sure should have something practically any day.
Feb 24, 2015, 5:56 pm
#63
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 415
Got it, thanks for explaining about the mixed itineraries. The ones I saw on alaskaair.com showed purely KE and EK itineraries only. So, are you using this merely to confirm whether AM or KE space is available to book via Delta Miles?
Feb 25, 2015, 10:21 am
#64
Original Poster
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Melbourne, Florida, USA
Posts: 2,983
Feb 25, 2015, 2:45 pm
#65
Join Date: Nov 2006
Programs: Marriott Platinum, Hilton Diamond, IHG Platinum
Posts: 3,690
I was ready to fight with DL to get the "correct" pricing, but after reading this wiki bit, it seems it may in fact be the "correct" price.
This is not new but still in effect: mixing award level 2 - 5 DL flights with partner flights results in additive pricing because partner flights always book in the lowest award tier. For example, you travel US-AMS in DL medium level award and you connect AMS-anywhere in Europe on KLM, you will pay US-Europe medium level award cost + low level intra-Europe price.
OK, so the itin I want is:
AKN-ANC, AS saver 12.5k
ANC-MSP-IND, DL 20k
The connection time between the 2 operating carriers is 1:30hr (i.e. not a stopover or anything). If I understand right, DL.com is showing the correct price of 32.5k. Is that right?
This is not new but still in effect: mixing award level 2 - 5 DL flights with partner flights results in additive pricing because partner flights always book in the lowest award tier. For example, you travel US-AMS in DL medium level award and you connect AMS-anywhere in Europe on KLM, you will pay US-Europe medium level award cost + low level intra-Europe price.
OK, so the itin I want is:
AKN-ANC, AS saver 12.5k
ANC-MSP-IND, DL 20k
The connection time between the 2 operating carriers is 1:30hr (i.e. not a stopover or anything). If I understand right, DL.com is showing the correct price of 32.5k. Is that right?
Feb 25, 2015, 3:14 pm
#67
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: DUS
Programs: DL, HHonors, Bonvoy, Hyatt
Posts: 2,072
My sister tried to book two SkyMiles tickets last night. First time through she got kicked back to the search screen. Second time through she got this:
I love the "Please do not" and that there's actually no reservation#. Makes me think that they're well aware their IT is bad and that they'd rather not have to clean up the mess if you try to make more than one reservation!
Miles were not pulled, no reservation to be found anywhere, but the AMEX was hit for one person's taxes.
I love the "Please do not" and that there's actually no reservation#. Makes me think that they're well aware their IT is bad and that they'd rather not have to clean up the mess if you try to make more than one reservation!
Miles were not pulled, no reservation to be found anywhere, but the AMEX was hit for one person's taxes.
Feb 25, 2015, 3:47 pm
#68
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2001
Programs: DL 1 million, AA 1 mil, HH lapsed Diamond, Marriott Plat
Posts: 28,190
Afraid so. There have been several repeatable examples of this. Trying to be a glass half-full guy here, do you want a stopover in ANC?
Feb 25, 2015, 4:22 pm
#69
Join Date: Nov 2006
Programs: Marriott Platinum, Hilton Diamond, IHG Platinum
Posts: 3,690
If I understand right, the additive thing is not supposed to be the way it works, but it is the de facto way it works. In other words, it's broken. If so, how much should my itin cost? 20k total?
Last edited by italdesign; Feb 25, 2015 at 5:37 pm
Feb 25, 2015, 6:57 pm
#70
Original Poster
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Melbourne, Florida, USA
Posts: 2,983
My sister tried to book two SkyMiles tickets last night. First time through she got kicked back to the search screen. Second time through she got this:
I love the "Please do not" and that there's actually no reservation#. Makes me think that they're well aware their IT is bad and that they'd rather not have to clean up the mess if you try to make more than one reservation!
Miles were not pulled, no reservation to be found anywhere, but the AMEX was hit for one person's taxes.
I love the "Please do not" and that there's actually no reservation#. Makes me think that they're well aware their IT is bad and that they'd rather not have to clean up the mess if you try to make more than one reservation!
Miles were not pulled, no reservation to be found anywhere, but the AMEX was hit for one person's taxes.
Feb 25, 2015, 8:43 pm
#71
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2001
Programs: DL 1 million, AA 1 mil, HH lapsed Diamond, Marriott Plat
Posts: 28,190
You assert the pricing engine is broken but there's a parallel to purchased fares. Build a trip AKN-ANC with an X fare and ANC-IND with an L fare and you shouldn't expect L fare pricing AKN-IND.
Feb 25, 2015, 9:49 pm
#73
Join Date: Nov 2006
Programs: Marriott Platinum, Hilton Diamond, IHG Platinum
Posts: 3,690
Feb 25, 2015, 10:36 pm
#74
Join Date: Apr 2001
Posts: 1,223
They should at least subtract the cost of the standard award and charge only the difference.
For example, I book AMS-JFK-YYZ.
AMS-JFK is on KL as Level1/"standard" award and JFK-YYZ is on DL as a level 2 award.
Price of the Europe to NA standard award is 30k. It includes JFK->YYZ at the L1/standard level (which as an independent award is 12.5k) if it is available.
But there is only level 2 availability for JFK-YYZ which is 17.5k. So it ends up costs 30k+17.5k= 47.5k, a 58% increase in the cost because the short connection is L2 and not L1/Standard. The policy would be much more reasonable if they just charged the 5k difference between the 12.5k L1/Standard award (included in the 30k europe to NA award) and 17.5k which is actually available.
But they probably decided that would be too complicated (like having award charts) so they "simplified" it for us.
For example, I book AMS-JFK-YYZ.
AMS-JFK is on KL as Level1/"standard" award and JFK-YYZ is on DL as a level 2 award.
Price of the Europe to NA standard award is 30k. It includes JFK->YYZ at the L1/standard level (which as an independent award is 12.5k) if it is available.
But there is only level 2 availability for JFK-YYZ which is 17.5k. So it ends up costs 30k+17.5k= 47.5k, a 58% increase in the cost because the short connection is L2 and not L1/Standard. The policy would be much more reasonable if they just charged the 5k difference between the 12.5k L1/Standard award (included in the 30k europe to NA award) and 17.5k which is actually available.
But they probably decided that would be too complicated (like having award charts) so they "simplified" it for us.
Last edited by lewinr; Feb 25, 2015 at 10:41 pm
Feb 25, 2015, 11:11 pm
#75
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2001
Programs: DL 1 million, AA 1 mil, HH lapsed Diamond, Marriott Plat
Posts: 28,190
I'll point out that AA redemptions work the same way mixing partner carriers and AA metal, and are likewise subject to routing/MPM and published thru-fare rules. Italdesign has discovered that Alaska Mileage Plan redemptions can't mix levels with partner carriers, either. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/alask...er-levels.html
Somehow I don't think this is an inadvertent online search pricing bug by Delta.
Last edited by 3Cforme; Feb 25, 2015 at 11:18 pm
