LPDAL

Hi everyone,

In preparation for my next report, PBI-ATL-CVG-ATL-MEM-ATL-MIA, I have been doing quite a bit of research on both CVG and MEM to present in my next trip report, which will be part of a new "Dead Hubs" series I'm doing, where I visit once-hub airports (yes, I know DL still calls CVG a "hub") and report on their status. Next up after this is IND, RDU, PIT, STL, and several others on various airlines.

With that said, despite scouring the web for facts, there are still some I cannot find and are somewhat crucial to the report, so I'd figure I would ask here, where there are a ton of knowledgeable posters. Some are general questions, some are asking if a fact is correct or not, but generally all are on CVG and MEM.

First, CVG.

1) At what point, in the 2000s, was CVG at its largest point in its life? When I say largest, I mean not just the Delta hub, but also other airlines serving the field.

2) Was CVG a Delta hub from the start or was it acquired from a merger?

3) Did any airline at any point during the 2000s run any other IntraOhio routes other than CVG-CLE-CVG, and on what equipment?

4) Is it true that as a result of the DL / NW merger that most CVG ops were transferred to DTW? Or were they just gotten rid of?

5) At what point in the 2000s did Delta begin to seriously reduce CVG's total operation?

6) To this day, are there any DL 757s serving the CVG hub? If not, why?

Second, MEM.

1) Prior to the merger, did NW make any significant cuts at MEM?

2) When does the Cancun seasonal flight generally start and end?

3) When was the date of completion for the "upside down" pyramid main terminal structure?

4) Has it been expanded at any point?

5) Pre-merger, Delta CEO Richard Anderson hinted at there being a MEM-CDG-MEM flight. Did this ever come to fruition?

Third, MIA.

1) How many airlines, in total, have attempted to make MIA a hub airport (NOT including AA) and ultimately left?

Thanks for all knowledge, you guys will be shouted out in the trip report.

-LPDAL / Colby

LoganFlyer

Here are the answers I know.

DL had CVG as a hub well before the NW merger.

DL for sure had a CVG-DAY flight, though I don't know the equipment. (And if you want to be picky, neither CVG-CLE nor CVG-DAY are IntraOhio flights, as CVG is in Kentucky.)

SJC ORD LDR

CVG is still a hub.

AKC6

That was part of a display in CVG, a reprint of a newspaper article welcoming DL to Greater Cincinnati in the 1930's (?).

Haven't looked for it lately.

Also, there was CVG-TOL 3x daily in the '90's, CVG-CMH maybe 3x daily, and CVG-CAK 5-6x daily for much longer. Not, strictly speaking, intra-state routes--those would have been CVG-SDF and CVG-LEX.

readywhenyouare

What are you talking about?

CVG is still a Delta hub and has been reported as profitable at the earning reports. Yes, it's a massively reduced hub but it is still used as a connecting complex.

SCEflyer

It sounds like you are trying to write a term paper, rather than a trip report. Nearly all of the information that you are seeking is available on the net. Try the Cincinnati Enquirer, Miami Herald and DL's press releases, amongst other sources. The press releases are available on the DL website.

LPDAL

SCEFlyer, I am actually trying to write a trip report. The pictures are here: https://www.flickr.com/photos/lpdal/sets/?&page=2

[In the middle, see the albums tagged "MEM", "CVG", and "PBI"]

-LPDAL

DLGrkItalNY

just go to:

www.departedflights.com

they have historical schedules from cities.

Longboater

CVG

1) Cincinnati reached its peak in total daily flights in 2005, just before Delta filed for Chapter 11.
2) Cincinnati became a hub shortly after deregulation to serve as Delta's Midwestern hub
3) Comair had some flights to Toledo and Akron.
4) Delta began to cut back Cincinnati during bankruptcy. By 2005, Cincinnati became a 50 seater heavy hub. With the spike in fuel prices, Cincinnati began to hemorrhage cash. THe merger essentially ended Cincinnati's role as Delta's second hub.
5) Again to the previous answer, Delta cut Cincinnati heavier than any hub, save for closing the DFW hub in early 2005 to stave off Chapter 11 temporarily. Cincinnati kept getting cut with the merger as Detroit became Delta's second largest hub in terms of flights per day.
6) Many many years ago, I flew on a 757 from DCA to CVG. I even received a nice breakfast on the flight. Today, there are probably only one or two if any 757s that still fly into CVG. The daily 767 to CDG still remains for now

MEM

Can't say much about MEM other than it served as NWA's southern hub with the Republic Airlines merger. It also relied on 50 seaters but not nearly as much as CVG did towards its peak. The problem with MEM was Memphis was the smallest city to have an airline hub. Couple that with a mediocre economy and the recession, Memphis began to lose a significant amount of money. The hope of it serving as a reliever to ATL with the merger died with high oil prices and the phase out of 50 seaters. Had NWA been able to stay independent, its very likely they would have had to embark on significant changes to MEM, possibly even moving the hub to BNA where they would have had a larger population and much much better economy to sustain a southern hub. MEM was barely able to sustain a MEM-AMS flight. Not a chance a MEM-CDG would have worked unless MEM-AMS was dropped. A MEM-LHR is the only possible transatlantic flight that could have had any chance of sustaining itself in the long term with the right aircraft, 787-8.

MIA

United inherited Pan Am's South American operations after 1991. United kept a decent sized focus city/South American hub until eliminating it during bankruptcy in 2002.

Hope all of this helps Colby. Looking forward to your next trip report!

Longboater

MSPeconomist

If it helps, around the early 2000s, PMNW had daily service to San Juan, PR, from MEM, although the southbound flight departed early in the morning, making connections difficult. At the same time, there was a nonstop once a week to/from MSP, IIRC on Sunday, on a 757. I don't remember what service there was then between DTW and San Juan (PR).

indufan

No other airline has ever had a significant presence in CVG other than DL and that is still true to this day. Not all that long ago, these were relegated to separate run down terminals. During the DL-NW-CO codeshare days NW and CO moved into A concourse. Today A is used for everyone that is not Delta.

Quite frankly, I am shocked that WN hasn't finally went in for CVG.

I don't have exact numbers but my understanding that CVG was 80% connecting and 20% O&D. It is a pretty big market but Delta's sky high fares trained people in the 'burbs to seek DAY, CMH, LEX, SDF and IND as alternatives and I think they still do even though any savings may be non-existent.

I said all along when people complained about the high fares out of CVG to be careful what you wish for....well they got it.

I think CVG evolved as a hub because of Comair. It is fairly easy to do research on the beginnings of Comair. The C concourse was nuts with traffic in the early 2000s. I think they had 72 gates.

Delta and Delta Connection operated intraKENTUCKY routes to SDF and LEX AFAIK. Memory is weak here. I think SDF mostly had MD-88 service and LEX mostly EMB-120 and later CRJ.

You can't say that CVG ops were simply transferred to DTW. DTW came around and made CVG less desirable. But ATL contributes to this. People forget how close CVG and ATL are. They are almost directly north and south of each other. Just 373 miles and less than 15 minutes of longitude.

If there is a 757 out of CVG, I can't find it. Why? Because finds using the aircraft else is more profitable.

Interesting what your slant on IND is going to be. Are you talking about IND being a hub for US Air? If so, that is a real stretch. Mini-hub at best. ATA's hub was also inconsequential. Any other hub pre-dates my 17 years of frequenting the place.

MSPeconomist

IND has been a focus city for various carriers but I don't remember any genuine hub status either.

LPDAL

What "slant"? I don't have any sort of 'slant'. My reports are based on fact, not opinion. Geeze, it sounds like you're thinking I'm going to slander IND. CVG and MEM were actually quite enjoyable as my first two "quiet" airports....

In any event, I know on most travel boards, CVG is a sore subject, but I've never seen a report in which someone actually went to CVG to...go to CVG, and that's exactly what I did. Along with MEM.

-LPDAL

Detroiter

A couple of years ago post-Christmas when it took me two days to fly PVD-DTW because of multiple cancellations, one of the PVD-DTW flights was rerouted to CVG, I suppose because there was a decent probability of getting the connecting passengers to their final destinations through CVG, indicating there were still a fair number of flights through CVG.

MSPeconomist

What do you mean by "one of the PVD-DTW flights was rerouted to CVG"? Do you mean that individual passengers were rebooked onto flights with connections at CVG? Or do you mean that an entire airplane with passengers diverted to CVG and landed there instead of DTW?