I don't understand hub captivity...

Old Dec 19, 2014, 6:22 pm
  #16  
 
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To be hub captive and leave the hub carrier is a bit liberating.

Though completely frustrating trying to explain the logic to corporate travel.
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Old Dec 19, 2014, 7:31 pm
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Originally Posted by kop84
Another analogy for your point about having to connect would be if you were going on a road trip and I told you that you could take the freeway and be there in 3 hours or you could take the back roads and be there in 6 it would be a tough decision to take the 6 hour trip.
What if gas along the 6 hour route was always $2/g and the 3 hour route was $10.00/g?

I can see plenty of people going the 6 hour route to save 30 bucks.

This would also have to assume using a rental car and no mileage charges.

Airlines charge for convenience... hence why the non-stop is sometimes costlier than the connection. It slightly ties into the "Can't SDS to a non-stop from a connection" issue that keeps popping up here.
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Old Dec 19, 2014, 8:31 pm
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I am mostly hub captive because it saves me 200 hours a year to take non-stops whenever possible. Yes, 200 hours!
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Old Dec 19, 2014, 10:05 pm
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I can almost never find a quicker route on any other airline but DL from SLC. There are sometimes cheaper routes on US Air or AA, but never quicker and my time is worth more than the dollars I can save, not to mention that it is not just my time, but time causing irreparable damage to my back and my health in general.
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Old Dec 19, 2014, 10:08 pm
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I also think, but cannot prove, that straight dollar competition at hubs is not between the major carriers but between others. For example, I can find cheaper fares to some locations on Frontier than Delta, but I choose Delta because of the fact that I do believe that it is safer on Delta and they will take care of me in case of problems more easily. Now Southwest is a completely different matter. If I can find a cheaper flight on SW I will have my daughter take it.
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Old Dec 19, 2014, 10:08 pm
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Even if you choose to stay with the hub airline because you value your time, that does not make you a CAPTIVE. You choose to fly direct.

I have lived in hub cities and have chosen to fly the non-hub airline on many occasions. You do have a choice. You may not always prefer that choice. So captive is not the word I would use here.
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Old Dec 19, 2014, 10:38 pm
  #22  
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The "captive" term isn't really meant to be taken literally. Obviously, there are many choices available from the hubs via connections on other airlines. It's just that most people (aka, non-FT's) simply regard air travel as a means to get from point A to point B. They look for the quickest and most convenient routing which tends to be non-stops, even though they may also be the most expensive options.
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Old Dec 19, 2014, 10:43 pm
  #23  
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"Hub captivity" is just another made-up description of a problem that does not exist. Part of the endless complaining about something on FlyerTalk.
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Old Dec 19, 2014, 11:41 pm
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Originally Posted by dieuwer2
"Hub captivity" is just another made-up description of a problem that does not exist. Part of the endless complaining about something on FlyerTalk.
Only on FT would it be a problem to have more nonstop options.
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Old Dec 20, 2014, 6:06 am
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Originally Posted by dieuwer2
"Hub captivity" is just another made-up description of a problem that does not exist. Part of the endless complaining about something on FlyerTalk.
No, the airline isn't locking you in a cage in their hometown airport. But yes, it's certainly a thing.

My team and I are constantly flying from NYC to Chicago and Denver. I live near LGA and thus have 6 airlines that fly to O'Hare and 3 to Denver so choose Delta based on medallion loyalty and the ease of the Marine Air Terminal. Two colleagues live in New Jersey and can get to Newark in 15-20 minutes vs the hour to get to LGA or JFK. They both prefer Delta to United but the convenience of a non-stop from Newark vs the hour drive to LGA or the connection in DTW/ATL/MSP makes for a pretty compelling argument to take UA.
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Old Dec 20, 2014, 6:19 am
  #26  
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Originally Posted by LBJ
The "captive" term isn't really meant to be taken literally. Obviously, there are many choices available from the hubs via connections on other airlines. It's just that most people (aka, non-FT's) simply regard air travel as a means to get from point A to point B. They look for the quickest and most convenient routing which tends to be non-stops, even though they may also be the most expensive options.
Similarly, when people talk about fortress hubs, they don't mean that defensive walls have built around tha airport and soldiers stationed there.
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Old Dec 20, 2014, 7:07 am
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Originally Posted by MSPeconomist
Similarly, when people talk about fortress hubs, they don't mean that defensive walls have built around tha airport and soldiers stationed there.
I never understood the fortress bit. I flew out of IAD for years and while UA is dominant, it was easy to also fly NW, DL, B6, and frequently, AA.

It's a poorly defended fortress.
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Old Dec 20, 2014, 7:34 am
  #28  
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Originally Posted by italdesign
I mean, I understand the concept: your home airport is a hub to a certain airline, and you feel stuck with that airline.

What I don't understand is why people at these home airports find it hard to switch to another airline (presumably other airlines fly there). Is it because prices are higher at hubs even with other airlines? Or the thought of additional connections?

I live in a non-hub airport with few direct flights, so most of my domestic flights require connecting. Is living in a hub and flying other airlines any worse?
As others have said it's simply about time & risk mitigation. A nonstop is very low risk compared with a connecting itinerary - as a business traveler I'm not interested in 'padding' my schedules to account for the inevitable meltdown when connecting. It also doesn't help that being based in DTW means the only logical competition for the routes I fly is UA/LH, meaning 1-stops via ORD or FRA, two of the absolute worst airports (IME) when it comes to dependable and agony-free travel.
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Old Dec 20, 2014, 7:37 am
  #29  
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Originally Posted by Sabai
I never understood the fortress bit. I flew out of IAD for years and while UA is dominant, it was easy to also fly NW, DL, B6, and frequently, AA.

It's a poorly defended fortress.
PMNW was always good at hub warfare strategies.
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Old Dec 20, 2014, 8:24 am
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After a lot of trouble with delayed connections this year (as well as Delta decimating my reward points), I'm changing my strategy to flying direct flights as much as possible, which means a lot of Southwest flights.

Connecting flights double the chances of IRROPS. Plus, as others have mentioned, there's the additional time factor involved in connecting. So I'll be giving up first class comfort in exchange for more time in a comfortable hotel room. (A somewhat dubious trade, I admit.)
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