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FCM In Action - $50 to UG a $400 Coach Ticket

FCM In Action - $50 to UG a $400 Coach Ticket

Old Dec 16, 2014, 2:45 am
  #16  
 
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Originally Posted by jamesteroh
So if it's someone with no status and they were going to check two bags or an overweight bag, Delta is actually losing money in the bag fees.
Although DL IT can't get some things right, I'd bet the the upgrade price for a no status pax takes into account the lost revenue for bags and may be more for the no status upgrader than for the Silver. As a diamond, although I've missed a few upgrades this year, I don't think I've ever gotten a offer to buy one.
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Old Dec 16, 2014, 7:37 am
  #17  
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I appreciate you answering the questions I asked, it's hard to imagine the business case for selling first class upgrades for $50 round-trip, regardless of the original fare paid.

The thing on these routes with 65/76 seat regional aircraft is they have relatively large first class cabins as a percentage of seats, so that may be causing some of these routes to be flying with lots of empty first class seats and DL pricing the FCM fares correspondingly, I wonder if a similar price could be had if one was flying CLT-ATL-LGA.
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Old Dec 16, 2014, 7:57 am
  #18  
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Originally Posted by mot29
Although DL IT can't get some things right, I'd bet the the upgrade price for a no status pax takes into account the lost revenue for bags and may be more for the no status upgrader than for the Silver. As a diamond, although I've missed a few upgrades this year, I don't think I've ever gotten a offer to buy one.
I did a test... PHL to SAT, mid-January. FCM fee was as low as $114 each way. And, the fare was the same regardless of whether I was logged in under my SM number.

So, the FCM fee would cover the lost revenue for a couple checked bags, but the net increase in income for the airline is not impressive.
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Old Dec 16, 2014, 8:03 am
  #19  
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First, let me be clear. Nothing in this post is intended to be a shot at the OP. I join him in celebrating his success.

But, don't we hear here, not infrequently, that when the UG system works consistent with DL's rules, and UGs are awarded at the windows, that this is unfair to others who pay higher prices nearer to departure, but find no UGs left available?

If you accept this premise, would not the sale of FCM UGs for a pittance over the price of coach also be unfair to those who, purchasing closer to departure, might be willing to FCM for a higher incremental cost?

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Old Dec 16, 2014, 8:19 am
  #20  
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Originally Posted by jamesteroh
So if it's someone with no status and they were going to check two bags or an overweight bag, Delta is actually losing money in the bag fees.

Seeing I'll be flying DTW/MIA a lot next year, I'm praying American decides to start matching Delta's first class fares. Even though I'm a diamond if I can fly in confirmed first on that route on American for as cheap as Delta sells first class fares for, I'll take American on that route
I doubt that AA will be "matching" these as they may not be fares that show up on standard booking channels. AFAIK the $50 upgrade seems to be a personalized offer rather than a standard buy up to the lowest FC fare. It might not be offered very often.
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Old Dec 16, 2014, 8:30 am
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Originally Posted by StayingHomeIsBetter
But, don't we hear here, not infrequently, that when the UG system works consistent with DL's rules, and UGs are awarded at the windows, that this is unfair to others who pay higher prices nearer to departure, but find no UGs left available?

If you accept this premise, would not the sale of FCM UGs for a pittance over the price of coach also be unfair to those who, purchasing closer to departure, might be willing to FCM for a higher incremental cost?

That my biggest complaint with FCM, sometimes people on a FCM fare are paying less than I am for a last minute M fare and they are getting more MQM's and a confirmed coach seat.

The thing that REALLY irritates me with FCM is that Delta is giving them a lot of SDC flexibility on those cheap tickets while they made it a lot harder for their most loyal customers to SDC on an economy ticket that is sometimes purchased for close to the same rate or even higher than a G fare. (and I'll be the first to admit that I have done a couple FCM's lately just so I could be assured the flexibility of changing the flight time where I would have stuck with the economy fare otherwise so I guess it's working as far as selling more FCM tickets)
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Old Dec 16, 2014, 8:33 am
  #22  
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Originally Posted by jamesteroh
So if it's someone with no status and they were going to check two bags or an overweight bag, Delta is actually losing money in the bag fees.

Are people who up into FC really bringing this much luggage, or overweight luggage? I always get 2 bags for free, and I do not think I have ever brought a second one, and its always under 50 lbs (even though I can go to 70 lbs) I personally do not see that many people checking lots of luggage, or overweight luggage.

With that said I DO see people who drag 90 lbs of luggage on the plane with them.
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Old Dec 16, 2014, 8:38 am
  #23  
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Originally Posted by jamesteroh
The thing that REALLY irritates me with FCM is that Delta is giving them a lot of SDC flexibility on those cheap tickets while they made it a lot harder for their most loyal customers to SDC on an economy ticket that is sometimes purchased for close to the same rate or even higher than a G fare. (and I'll be the first to admit that I have done a couple FCM's lately just so I could be assured the flexibility of changing the flight time where I would have stuck with the economy fare otherwise so I guess it's working as far as selling more FCM tickets)
But if you can't SDC to a new route you have to consider again that the poster was flying CLT-LGA, a route with only two flights a day, it's not a more heavily traveled route with a connection in Atlanta. As I mentioned in my last post, if this offer was only available because the poster booked CLT-LGA and would not have been available if the poster had booked CLT-ATL-LGA as an alternative, the implications here are relatively limited.

I would pay $50 more for a round-trip first class fare (out of my own pocket on business travel or personal travel) on any trip for the additional MQM and RDM, avoidance of the upgrade lottery, better choice of seats than winning the upgrade lottery and the SDC flexibility (even if limited). A couple weeks ago I was glad I had paid $100 more (10,000 miles with PWM actually) for an FCM fare on a one-way LIT-ATL-MCI, I was able to SDC onto flights that got me home two hours earlier when my meeting finished early.
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Old Dec 16, 2014, 8:42 am
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Originally Posted by vincentharris
Are people who up into FC really bringing this much luggage, or overweight luggage?
It's not a matter of brining luggage because they bought up to FC, but recognizing that the cost of buying up to FC is minimal or even possibly a net gain if you are checking luggage anyway. In the case of a $50 round-trip upgrade, even if you're checking just a single bag, you might as well pay for the upgrade instead.
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Old Dec 16, 2014, 8:48 am
  #25  
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Of the kettles who are offered or who purchase FCM buy ups, I suspect that many are aware of checked bag fees and take those prices into account in their decision making.

OTOH, few are aware of SDC rules like people here are. FT doesn't consist of typical passengers or even typical elites, so the number who buy up to FC in order to SDC more easily would be small.
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Old Dec 16, 2014, 8:51 am
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Originally Posted by vincentharris
Are people who up into FC really bringing this much luggage, or overweight luggage? I always get 2 bags for free, and I do not think I have ever brought a second one, and its always under 50 lbs (even though I can go to 70 lbs) I personally do not see that many people checking lots of luggage, or overweight luggage.

With that said I DO see people who drag 90 lbs of luggage on the plane with them.
If it's someone with no status they pay $25 to check even one bag each way unless they have an am ex card
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Old Dec 16, 2014, 9:03 am
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Originally Posted by Beckles
But if you can't SDC to a new route you have to consider again that the poster was flying CLT-LGA, a route with only two flights a day, it's not a more heavily traveled route with a connection in Atlanta. As I mentioned in my last post, if this offer was only available because the poster booked CLT-LGA and would not have been available if the poster had booked CLT-ATL-LGA as an alternative, the implications here are relatively limited.

I would pay $50 more for a round-trip first class fare (out of my own pocket on business travel or personal travel) on any trip for the additional MQM and RDM, avoidance of the upgrade lottery, better choice of seats than winning the upgrade lottery and the SDC flexibility (even if limited). A couple weeks ago I was glad I had paid $100 more (10,000 miles with PWM actually) for an FCM fare on a one-way LIT-ATL-MCI, I was able to SDC onto flights that got me home two hours earlier when my meeting finished early.
In a couple weeks the additional RDM's will be going away but the MQM's are still nice seeing Delta is charging $2k for 10,000 with the buy MQM offer.

I would never think of paying $70 for a first class ticket for DTW/ORD short flight but someone in my office did a couple days ago. They would prefer to fly in MDW instead of ORD and the fare difference on the flights they wanted into and out of MDW were $120 more. By paying the extra $70 they will have a confirmed first class seat, a bonus 500 MQMS and as long as there is a FC seat on the MDW flights 24 hours out he just needs to call the diamond desk and will be confirmed. And if for some reason it doesn't work out he'll just spend the extra 20 minutes getting to ORD instead of MDW. I'm considering the same strategy for a DTW/MIA trip I have to make in a couple months. He said he has also done it for DTW to NYC tickets, FCM isn't much more to EWR or JFK than LGA and he'll buy a FCM EWR or JFK ticket and then SDC 24 hours out to LGA. First class to FLL is only $75 more than coach to MIA. I can do PWM for the $75 difference and just confirm into MIA 24 hours out and if for some reason first class is sold out just use FLL, won't be a big deal.

It's my understanding non status and silvers still have to pay $50 anyway so it will only work for GM's and higher and most leisure travelers don't care about leaving earlier anyway. And the co-terminaling I mentioned above is only available for diamond's so I can't imagine many people do that either.

Last edited by jamesteroh; Dec 16, 2014 at 9:09 am
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Old Dec 16, 2014, 10:03 am
  #28  
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Originally Posted by jamesteroh
In a couple weeks the additional RDM's will be going away but the MQM's are still nice seeing Delta is charging $2k for 10,000 with the buy MQM offer.
...
I had not seen the announcement of this. So, the VA Ave folks who purport to be trying to thin the herd to improve our elite experience have rolled out the annual herd strengthening (read: bottom line strengthening above all else) MQM purchase offer?
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Old Dec 16, 2014, 10:09 am
  #29  
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Originally Posted by StayingHomeIsBetter
I had not seen the announcement of this. So, the VA Ave folks who purport to be trying to thin the herd to improve our elite experience have rolled out the annual herd strengthening (read: bottom line strengthening above all else) MQM purchase offer?
There doesn't seem to be much discussion of it this year, though there is a thread somewhere I believe comparing folks' different offers, here is the page on Delta.com.
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Old Dec 16, 2014, 10:14 am
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Originally Posted by StayingHomeIsBetter
I had not seen the announcement of this. So, the VA Ave folks who purport to be trying to thin the herd to improve our elite experience have rolled out the annual herd strengthening (read: bottom line strengthening above all else) MQM purchase offer?
Yes the MQM purchase offer is back. There is a thread about it on this forum.

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/delta...se-year-9.html

And like last year the higher your status is, the more the MQM's cost. For diamonds it was something like $2,100 for 10,000 MQM's for a diamond. The MQM purchase also counts towards MQD's.

If Delta wants to thin the herds they should stop giving 50% bonus MQM's on A, G and P fares (and as a compromise give 100% bonus MQM's on a full Y fare)
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