Delta has a tentative agreement with MSP to launch season, non-stop HNL service
Nov 26, 2014, 2:40 pm
#16
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I think Delta used to do it on A330s for a while after the merger, before they cancelled it entirely.
I'm not sure that it'd be all that worthwhile of a route for Delta without the subsidy. I can't imagine there's really all that much O&D traffic, and if passengers connect anyway, why not direct people to LAX, SLC, and SEA where there's more frequency anyway?
That being said, we'll be moving back to HNL (from ATL) in a few months, and anything that adds capacity and might work to pull down airfares a touch is A-OK in my book, especially if it's the citizens and flyers of MSP paying for it and not me. :-)
On another note, I'm kind of surprised the JFK service is only for such a short holiday period. I would have thought it'd be a popular route. I haven't been on an ATL-HNL flight in about 16 months, but before then, they were frequently packed, with often only one or two full-F seats available in the front, even a week out.
I'm not sure that it'd be all that worthwhile of a route for Delta without the subsidy. I can't imagine there's really all that much O&D traffic, and if passengers connect anyway, why not direct people to LAX, SLC, and SEA where there's more frequency anyway?
That being said, we'll be moving back to HNL (from ATL) in a few months, and anything that adds capacity and might work to pull down airfares a touch is A-OK in my book, especially if it's the citizens and flyers of MSP paying for it and not me. :-)
On another note, I'm kind of surprised the JFK service is only for such a short holiday period. I would have thought it'd be a popular route. I haven't been on an ATL-HNL flight in about 16 months, but before then, they were frequently packed, with often only one or two full-F seats available in the front, even a week out.
In the PMNW days, the flight was special because they made it so. The meal service was supposedly a little bit better than on other domestic routes (perhaps like the San Juan nonstop) and they served tropical drinks up front. MSP people remember that flight fondly, especially on snowy cold winter days.
Nov 26, 2014, 2:48 pm
#17
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: MSP
Programs: None that I am proud of anymore
Posts: 571
Except for an occasional charter the market has been underserved.
Western Airlines was the first carrier to initiate service on the route
albeit seasonal and once a week on Saturday with B707-320 this in
1969. Western also flew the route with an intermediate stop either
at LAX or SFO with B707 or B720H (* extra fuel tank) later with the
DC10 which did not have the safe capability non-stop. In the 70's
the HUB & SPOKE came into vogue and MSP had nothing but charters.
NW picked up a lot of the pieces of the Western routes. In '87 Delta
bought Western but still no scheduled non-stops until NW started
flying it with DC10-40 equipment seasonally occasionally substituting
with a 747. When NW mothballed the DC10-40s the route was dormant
for awhile until the A330 equipment was acquired and I flew on this
several times to visit relatives in HNL.
The A330 equipment was not the hard charging DC10 or 747 but more
of a jet powered glider; smooth ride but not a speed demon.
Presently getting to Hawaii from MSP involves taking a flight to ATL-SLC-
-LAX-SFO-SEA or other major hub with a change of airline.
Delta used a L1011 on the ATL HNL route and after retiring the L1011
used the 767-400 equipment with the range and crew rest facility.
Now it using the A330 equipment for the non-stop and a 767-300 for the
intermediate SLC stop.
For the most part any carrier flying to Hawaii the load is going to be
composed of some high mileage frequent flyers with mileage redemptions
during a vacation seasonal time and thus is not a very lucrative market to
make a profit but the flights are full comprised of a wide range of fares from
full revenue to some very lucky NRSA.
Flying time MSP-HNL roughly 8 an a half hours
ATL-HNL 10 hours + or -
Westbound trips do meet headwinds somewhere in route.
Eastbound trips have been known to arrive an hour to an hour and half early.
To escape the slings and pains of outrageous fortune of northern weather
to go to paradise in Hawaii is on the mind of a great deal of folks that live
in the abysmal frozen outback tundra - how's that for an escape clause ?
Well it is not all that bad but the respite can make life a bit more bearable.
Western Airlines was the first carrier to initiate service on the route
albeit seasonal and once a week on Saturday with B707-320 this in
1969. Western also flew the route with an intermediate stop either
at LAX or SFO with B707 or B720H (* extra fuel tank) later with the
DC10 which did not have the safe capability non-stop. In the 70's
the HUB & SPOKE came into vogue and MSP had nothing but charters.
NW picked up a lot of the pieces of the Western routes. In '87 Delta
bought Western but still no scheduled non-stops until NW started
flying it with DC10-40 equipment seasonally occasionally substituting
with a 747. When NW mothballed the DC10-40s the route was dormant
for awhile until the A330 equipment was acquired and I flew on this
several times to visit relatives in HNL.
The A330 equipment was not the hard charging DC10 or 747 but more
of a jet powered glider; smooth ride but not a speed demon.
Presently getting to Hawaii from MSP involves taking a flight to ATL-SLC-
-LAX-SFO-SEA or other major hub with a change of airline.
Delta used a L1011 on the ATL HNL route and after retiring the L1011
used the 767-400 equipment with the range and crew rest facility.
Now it using the A330 equipment for the non-stop and a 767-300 for the
intermediate SLC stop.
For the most part any carrier flying to Hawaii the load is going to be
composed of some high mileage frequent flyers with mileage redemptions
during a vacation seasonal time and thus is not a very lucrative market to
make a profit but the flights are full comprised of a wide range of fares from
full revenue to some very lucky NRSA.
Flying time MSP-HNL roughly 8 an a half hours
ATL-HNL 10 hours + or -
Westbound trips do meet headwinds somewhere in route.
Eastbound trips have been known to arrive an hour to an hour and half early.
To escape the slings and pains of outrageous fortune of northern weather
to go to paradise in Hawaii is on the mind of a great deal of folks that live
in the abysmal frozen outback tundra - how's that for an escape clause ?
Well it is not all that bad but the respite can make life a bit more bearable.
Nov 26, 2014, 2:52 pm
#18
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Runway 22 @ KROC
Posts: 706
Except for an occasional charter the market has been underserved.
Western Airlines was the first carrier to initiate service on the route
albeit seasonal and once a week on Saturday with B707-320 this in
1969. Western also flew the route with an intermediate stop either
at LAX or SFO with B707 or B720H (* extra fuel tank) later with the
DC10 which did not have the safe capability non-stop. In the 70's
the HUB & SPOKE came into vogue and MSP had nothing but charters.
NW picked up a lot of the pieces of the Western routes. In '87 Delta
bought Western but still no scheduled non-stops until NW started
flying it with DC10-40 equipment seasonally occasionally substituting
with a 747. When NW mothballed the DC10-40s the route was dormant
for awhile until the A330 equipment was acquired and I flew on this
several times to visit relatives in HNL.
The A330 equipment was not the hard charging DC10 or 747 but more
of a jet powered glider; smooth ride but not a speed demon.
Presently getting to Hawaii from MSP involves taking a flight to ATL-SLC-
-LAX-SFO-SEA or other major hub with a change of airline.
Delta used a L1011 on the ATL HNL route and after retiring the L1011
used the 767-400 equipment with the range and crew rest facility.
Now it using the A330 equipment for the non-stop and a 767-300 for the
intermediate SLC stop.
For the most part any carrier flying to Hawaii the load is going to be
composed of some high mileage frequent flyers with mileage redemptions
during a vacation seasonal time and thus is not a very lucrative market to
make a profit but the flights are full comprised of a wide range of fares from
full revenue to some very lucky NRSA.
Flying time MSP-HNL roughly 8 an a half hours
ATL-HNL 10 hours + or -
Westbound trips do meet headwinds somewhere in route.
Eastbound trips have been known to arrive an hour to an hour and half early.
To escape the slings and pains of outrageous fortune of northern weather
to go to paradise in Hawaii is on the mind of a great deal of folks that live
in the abysmal frozen outback tundra - how's that for an escape clause ?
Well it is not all that bad but the respite can make life a bit more bearable.
Western Airlines was the first carrier to initiate service on the route
albeit seasonal and once a week on Saturday with B707-320 this in
1969. Western also flew the route with an intermediate stop either
at LAX or SFO with B707 or B720H (* extra fuel tank) later with the
DC10 which did not have the safe capability non-stop. In the 70's
the HUB & SPOKE came into vogue and MSP had nothing but charters.
NW picked up a lot of the pieces of the Western routes. In '87 Delta
bought Western but still no scheduled non-stops until NW started
flying it with DC10-40 equipment seasonally occasionally substituting
with a 747. When NW mothballed the DC10-40s the route was dormant
for awhile until the A330 equipment was acquired and I flew on this
several times to visit relatives in HNL.
The A330 equipment was not the hard charging DC10 or 747 but more
of a jet powered glider; smooth ride but not a speed demon.
Presently getting to Hawaii from MSP involves taking a flight to ATL-SLC-
-LAX-SFO-SEA or other major hub with a change of airline.
Delta used a L1011 on the ATL HNL route and after retiring the L1011
used the 767-400 equipment with the range and crew rest facility.
Now it using the A330 equipment for the non-stop and a 767-300 for the
intermediate SLC stop.
For the most part any carrier flying to Hawaii the load is going to be
composed of some high mileage frequent flyers with mileage redemptions
during a vacation seasonal time and thus is not a very lucrative market to
make a profit but the flights are full comprised of a wide range of fares from
full revenue to some very lucky NRSA.
Flying time MSP-HNL roughly 8 an a half hours
ATL-HNL 10 hours + or -
Westbound trips do meet headwinds somewhere in route.
Eastbound trips have been known to arrive an hour to an hour and half early.
To escape the slings and pains of outrageous fortune of northern weather
to go to paradise in Hawaii is on the mind of a great deal of folks that live
in the abysmal frozen outback tundra - how's that for an escape clause ?
Well it is not all that bad but the respite can make life a bit more bearable.
Nov 26, 2014, 4:50 pm
#19
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Has demand for traveling to Hawaii fallen off in recent years?
I remember Delta used to serve ATL-HNL twice daily with 767-400's and ATL-OGG with a 767-300ER. There was also a CVG-HNL flight using the 767-400. LAX-HNL/OGG used a 767-400. Delta also served SLC-KOA with a 767-400. So basically HNL used to be 767 paradise for Delta haha.
I remember Delta used to serve ATL-HNL twice daily with 767-400's and ATL-OGG with a 767-300ER. There was also a CVG-HNL flight using the 767-400. LAX-HNL/OGG used a 767-400. Delta also served SLC-KOA with a 767-400. So basically HNL used to be 767 paradise for Delta haha.
Nov 26, 2014, 5:35 pm
#20
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: MSP
Programs: None that I am proud of anymore
Posts: 571
BUT I thought that the NW DC10-40's were powered with the same PW
engine used on the NW 747 for basic economical maintenance - one size
engine fits all. I don't recall NW having any DC10-30s.
Western did have one leased DC10-30 for use on the DEN-London route
which never amounted to anything.
After the Delta buy out of Western the DC10's were swapped for L1011's
that United inherited from PanAM Pacific Division - made sense since
Delta was a prime user of the L1011 and United was big on the DC10.
In case anyone is interested the external give away feature was the center
landing gear for both the DC10-30 and 40 more fuel tanks - more weight -
more wheels on the ground to support the weight.
Nov 26, 2014, 5:44 pm
#21
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: MSP
Programs: None that I am proud of anymore
Posts: 571
Has demand for traveling to Hawaii fallen off in recent years?
I remember Delta used to serve ATL-HNL twice daily with 767-400's and ATL-OGG with a 767-300ER. There was also a CVG-HNL flight using the 767-400. LAX-HNL/OGG used a 767-400. Delta also served SLC-KOA with a 767-400. So basically HNL used to be 767 paradise for Delta haha.
I remember Delta used to serve ATL-HNL twice daily with 767-400's and ATL-OGG with a 767-300ER. There was also a CVG-HNL flight using the 767-400. LAX-HNL/OGG used a 767-400. Delta also served SLC-KOA with a 767-400. So basically HNL used to be 767 paradise for Delta haha.
island of Oahu. Flights now go to and from Maui and the Big Island as well
as Kauai non-stop to the mainland therefore the statistics show a decline in
travel to where else but Honolulu. Another factor is that airlines have downsized
the equipment going to Oahu - used to be 747s L1011s and DC10s now
it is 757s 767s and 737s.
Nov 26, 2014, 7:15 pm
#24
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Right, they did it before and NW did flown DTW-HNL, as well.
Right! Just for the winter season, but it will be very short time.
Ah, yes! I remember we flew on L1011s from ATL-DFW-HNL in Summer 1996 and coming back home from HNL-ATL nonstop and then FLL. That was long time ago. We had stop in DFW and then we continued the flight to HNL.
They tried MSP-HNL back in 2009. Due to poor loads. DL has decide to canceled it. Yes, it was operate A330-300 aircraft.
They tried MSP-HNL back in 2009. Due to poor loads. DL has decide to canceled it. Yes, it was operate A330-300 aircraft.
Nov 26, 2014, 8:34 pm
#25
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HNL-MSP was A330 for many years. Would be good to see it come back, but if it's not year round it'll be only limited use. (At least the front cabin is usually mostly full of business travelers, and work goes on all year round and is not seasonal.)
MSP is so much better for connecting at than ATL, and more reliable also, and with that second A330 (or at least 767) flight, at least the HNL-ATL won't be always so overcrowded (good from a pax perspective, of course).
HNL-DTW would be even nicer, as from MSP too few connections to Europe and can't make it on the way back, at least how it was timed before. How DTW-HNL was timed before, you could actually make it same day for most connections from EU, so that worked very well for that. And DTW was good for connections to S. America also.
But, both HNL-MSP and HNL-DTW coming back, and HNL-ATL remaining, is not likely to happpen anytime soon, given how DL keeps cutting back on flights vs. expanding as of late. Though perhaps DL could use one aircraft and do 4x weekly MSP and 3x weekly DTW; that is how it was before HNL-DTW was completely axed before.
MSP is so much better for connecting at than ATL, and more reliable also, and with that second A330 (or at least 767) flight, at least the HNL-ATL won't be always so overcrowded (good from a pax perspective, of course).
HNL-DTW would be even nicer, as from MSP too few connections to Europe and can't make it on the way back, at least how it was timed before. How DTW-HNL was timed before, you could actually make it same day for most connections from EU, so that worked very well for that. And DTW was good for connections to S. America also.
But, both HNL-MSP and HNL-DTW coming back, and HNL-ATL remaining, is not likely to happpen anytime soon, given how DL keeps cutting back on flights vs. expanding as of late. Though perhaps DL could use one aircraft and do 4x weekly MSP and 3x weekly DTW; that is how it was before HNL-DTW was completely axed before.
Nov 26, 2014, 8:39 pm
#26
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: USA
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Posts: 4,159
When was MSP/DTW-HNL discontinued? I seem to vaguely remember either Spring 2011 or Spring 2012, but am not sure. I remember there was quite a big outcry about those two routes being cancelled.
Nov 26, 2014, 8:48 pm
#27
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Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 23,055
NW had a number of DC10-30's that they acquired second-hand. Here's a list from an old a'net thread --
N211NW - x HB-IHP
N221NW - x HB-IHE
N223NW - x HB-IHF
N224NW - x HB-IHG
N225NW - x HB-IHH
N226NW - x HB-IHL
N227NW - x HB-IHI
N229NW - x N4655Y
N230NW - x N4655Z
N232NW - x N961GF
N233NW - x N962GF
N234NW - x HL7316
N235NW - x HL7317
N236NW - x HL7315
N237NW - x PP-VMW
N238NW - x HS-TMA
N239NW - x HS-TMB
N240NW - x HS-TMC
N241NW - x PP-VMY
N242NW - x PP-VMX
N243NW - x JA8550
N244NW - x JA8551
N211NW - x HB-IHP
N221NW - x HB-IHE
N223NW - x HB-IHF
N224NW - x HB-IHG
N225NW - x HB-IHH
N226NW - x HB-IHL
N227NW - x HB-IHI
N229NW - x N4655Y
N230NW - x N4655Z
N232NW - x N961GF
N233NW - x N962GF
N234NW - x HL7316
N235NW - x HL7317
N236NW - x HL7315
N237NW - x PP-VMW
N238NW - x HS-TMA
N239NW - x HS-TMB
N240NW - x HS-TMC
N241NW - x PP-VMY
N242NW - x PP-VMX
N243NW - x JA8550
N244NW - x JA8551
Nov 26, 2014, 8:54 pm
#28
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This is good news - I was just commenting on another thread what poor options there are currently to get to HNL. I took that NW DC10 flight 10 yrs ago on my only outing to HNL and had good memories...
Any ventures on when this might begin?
Any ventures on when this might begin?
Last edited by Hawkeyefan; Nov 26, 2014 at 9:12 pm
Nov 26, 2014, 8:59 pm
#29
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I wish I had the chance to fly on a DC-10. I got several rides on the L-1011, and MD-11 though. Those were great flights from ATL-MCO.
Nov 26, 2014, 9:12 pm
#30
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I remember my few DC-10 flights because they had a common complaint- weak AC making it very hot. There was one 95 degree day in SFO where it took until the halfway contest was complete before it cooled off. (SFO-HNL) I made a few BOS-MSP runs that were pretty uncomfortable as well.