Yet another flight diverted over reclining seat, this time Delta
Sep 2, 2014, 10:51 am
#61
Join Date: Nov 2007
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Sep 2, 2014, 10:52 am
#62
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 903
This is a false statement, the price for coach seats that recline and those that don't is exactly the same, i.e the seats in front of the toilets in the back row or the exit rows (seats that don't recline) cost the same as those that do recline.
Sep 2, 2014, 10:55 am
#64
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There isn't much of any difference among the major domestic carriers' E legroom such that anyone really has this much of a choice among Y seats.
Plus, people do fork over extra for E+ seating that I think it shows some people are willing to pay for more space.
Of course, even if customers were willing to pay more, I'd be willing to bet the airlines still would have reduced legroom regardless. After all, they want to cut their costs so as to maximize profit at whatever prices the market will bear. We're now down to so few major domestic carriers (3 or 4 depending how you want to classify WN) we'll have less and less choice. All of the major airlines could go to 28" pitch with no recline...and we'd be stuck with it.
All that said, though, I don't actually think legroom itself is necessarily a common factor in these incidents, as they happen in E+ and even F. It seems like a function of the attitudes of the individuals involved. Maybe there's a larger societal part of it, I don't know.
Plus, people do fork over extra for E+ seating that I think it shows some people are willing to pay for more space.
Of course, even if customers were willing to pay more, I'd be willing to bet the airlines still would have reduced legroom regardless. After all, they want to cut their costs so as to maximize profit at whatever prices the market will bear. We're now down to so few major domestic carriers (3 or 4 depending how you want to classify WN) we'll have less and less choice. All of the major airlines could go to 28" pitch with no recline...and we'd be stuck with it.
All that said, though, I don't actually think legroom itself is necessarily a common factor in these incidents, as they happen in E+ and even F. It seems like a function of the attitudes of the individuals involved. Maybe there's a larger societal part of it, I don't know.
For those that have responded and commented that we don't really have a choice, since all the major players are basically offering the same seat pitch, you are of course correct. But I have to believe that the desire of the airlines to maximize profit, combined with the realization that the flying public will tolerate the increasingly cramped spaces, combined with the knowledge that most purchase decisions in coach will be made on price and price alone, drives the incremental changes that have resulted in airplane seats being what they are today.
The opposite happens in int'l premium cabins to some degree. The airlines realize that those customers are willing to pay more for the comfort/experience, are more discerning when it comes to seat type and inflight service, and thus develop hard and soft products that compete and set an appropriate price point that is not necessarily just trying to undercut all of their competitors. The sales pitch is often about why their product is worth the extra money, and not that it's the same product for cheaper.
Sep 2, 2014, 10:56 am
#65
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: NYC
Posts: 937
Let's even keep this unique to Delta. You can buy an EC seat for $9 more on a short-haul flight or as much as $99 on a JFK->LAX leg (i think, havent flown a Tcon in a while).
How many non GM, PM, DM's are paying the $99 on this leg? A decent snack, free drinks, extra legroom, priority boarding, etc.... A relatively affordable way to have a nicer flight. I dont work for Delta but my guess is most people in the EC seats are there on the free upgrades and most kettles prefer to save the $99.
Or
Why is Delta cutting back the # of FC seats? Sure, domestic FC may not be a true FC experience but how many people are choosing to pay the extra few hundred dollars to go FC on a LGA->MIA leg vs how many would rather save the $$. On a domestic leg like that how many people in FC paid to be there vs how many are enjoying the free upgrade.
Sep 2, 2014, 10:59 am
#66
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: NYC
Programs: DL DM, AA ExP
Posts: 189
How is this idiotic ... politeness dictates that all people generally work with each other to a solution. But ... you also have the right to exercise being polite to others ... by doing one of the following proactively since you know you are tall or too wide and will jam up the seat in front of you. i.e. buying a seat that offers more room or multiple seats to get the room you need ... or calling the airlines and asking for a specific seat due to height ... i.e. emergency exit rows where recline is disabled for seat in front or a bulkhead seat.
Sep 2, 2014, 11:00 am
#67
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So, the woman demands that the flight lands, gets escorted off and taken to the rental car center with no consequence? I'm going to abstain from the argument about whether one should be able to recline or not, but that's nuts. You inconvenience 100+ other people and cost thousands of dollars in fuel and staffing and there's no penalty to you?
As far as taking away the "recline" feature, as some have suggested, how well would that work on Transcons, TATLs or TPACs? I'm going to go with "not very well at all."
Unhappily, we live in a narcissistic, entitled culture these days (and that can apply to both sides of this particular debate).
I am tall and I almost always recline my seat. That allows me to stretch my legs forward under the seat in front of me. Sitting up straight it is tougher to do because of the angle between my knees and the space under the seat.
I also recline slowly. I don't think this is unique to airline seats. I try not to run people over (with my feet on with my car) even if they are in my "right of way." It is all just common courtesy. Some people don't have it - but that applies to a lot more than airline seats.
I also recline slowly. I don't think this is unique to airline seats. I try not to run people over (with my feet on with my car) even if they are in my "right of way." It is all just common courtesy. Some people don't have it - but that applies to a lot more than airline seats.
O/H
Sep 2, 2014, 11:02 am
#68
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 71
To be fair, the recliner was 100% wrong. You have the right to use your tray table.
People need to be able to use their flight time for work.
People use their tray tables for working, laptops, sleeping, and food. It is wrong to prevent someone from using their tray table by reclining.
I really hope this will be the end of reclining seats.
I fly a lot for work and I never need to recline, I dont see the point.
Just yesterday I saw a bad reclining incident.
I was on United from ORD to IAH.
The women next to me had a pillow on her tray table, wearing a mask, and was dead asleep for about 30 minutes.
The jerk in front reclined hard right into her head.
She was in pain for and was about to cry, I felt really bad. No one should have to get their head bashed in because they are sleeping on the tray table.
I once had incident where I had to ask the person to not recline and they complied. I was using my laptop and when they reclined I could not open my laptop screen enough to see it. I was not going to waste 2 hours of work time just so someone could recline. That would be really stupid.
I really, really hope airlines take out the reclining feature from seats. Too many people need to use their tray table.
People need to be able to use their flight time for work.
People use their tray tables for working, laptops, sleeping, and food. It is wrong to prevent someone from using their tray table by reclining.
I really hope this will be the end of reclining seats.
I fly a lot for work and I never need to recline, I dont see the point.
Just yesterday I saw a bad reclining incident.
I was on United from ORD to IAH.
The women next to me had a pillow on her tray table, wearing a mask, and was dead asleep for about 30 minutes.
The jerk in front reclined hard right into her head.
She was in pain for and was about to cry, I felt really bad. No one should have to get their head bashed in because they are sleeping on the tray table.
I once had incident where I had to ask the person to not recline and they complied. I was using my laptop and when they reclined I could not open my laptop screen enough to see it. I was not going to waste 2 hours of work time just so someone could recline. That would be really stupid.
I really, really hope airlines take out the reclining feature from seats. Too many people need to use their tray table.
Sep 2, 2014, 11:03 am
#69
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Seattle
Programs: DL - Diamond. Marriott - Lifetime Platinum. Starwoods - Lifetime Platinum
Posts: 192
I love the comments that say "this is the fault of the airlines....if they didnt squeeze us in to cramped seats then these issues wouldnt happen"
No sir, "the cramped seats are the fault of the consumer." If the majority of consumers values additional legroom vs a token savings then airlines would have no problem providing more legroom.
No sir, "the cramped seats are the fault of the consumer." If the majority of consumers values additional legroom vs a token savings then airlines would have no problem providing more legroom.
Sep 2, 2014, 11:05 am
#70
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: NYC
Programs: DL DM, AA ExP
Posts: 189
For a person who is too tall or too wide, wouldn't it be polite on their part to consider ahead of time ... say like when purchasing a ticket to travel ... to be considerate to others on the aircraft and make sure they acquire a ticket or tickets that will enable them to be reasonably comfortable whilst not preventing others from using the space they've paid for ? i.e. buy two tickets or find a bulkhead seat or a seat where no recline is permitted by the seat in front or a seat that has more leg space (biz or first or EC), etc. etc.
Sep 2, 2014, 11:09 am
#71
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: TPA-MKE-PHX
Programs: Ex DL-DM. MM. TWA-Aviator Plat. HHonors-DVIP, MR-Gold. Nat-Emerald. Avis Chairmn.
Posts: 1,925
To be fair, the recliner was 100% wrong. You have the right to use your tray table.
People need to be able to use their flight time for work.
People use their tray tables for working, laptops, sleeping, and food. It is wrong to prevent someone from using their tray table by reclining.
I really hope this will be the end of reclining seats.
I fly a lot for work and I never need to recline, I dont see the point.
Just yesterday I saw a bad reclining incident.
I was on United from ORD to IAH.
The women next to me had a pillow on her tray table, wearing a mask, and was dead asleep for about 30 minutes.
The jerk in front reclined hard right into her head.
She was in pain for and was about to cry, I felt really bad. No one should have to get their head bashed in because they are sleeping on the tray table.
I once had incident where I had to ask the person to not recline and they complied. I was using my laptop and when they reclined I could not open my laptop screen enough to see it. I was not going to waste 2 hours of work time just so someone could recline. That would be really stupid.
I really, really hope airlines take out the reclining feature from seats. Too many people need to use their tray table.
People need to be able to use their flight time for work.
People use their tray tables for working, laptops, sleeping, and food. It is wrong to prevent someone from using their tray table by reclining.
I really hope this will be the end of reclining seats.
I fly a lot for work and I never need to recline, I dont see the point.
Just yesterday I saw a bad reclining incident.
I was on United from ORD to IAH.
The women next to me had a pillow on her tray table, wearing a mask, and was dead asleep for about 30 minutes.
The jerk in front reclined hard right into her head.
She was in pain for and was about to cry, I felt really bad. No one should have to get their head bashed in because they are sleeping on the tray table.
I once had incident where I had to ask the person to not recline and they complied. I was using my laptop and when they reclined I could not open my laptop screen enough to see it. I was not going to waste 2 hours of work time just so someone could recline. That would be really stupid.
I really, really hope airlines take out the reclining feature from seats. Too many people need to use their tray table.
Sep 2, 2014, 11:14 am
#72
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 71
It will solve so many problems to eliminate the recline feature. I am sure the seats will be lighter and maybe a little thinner if they did this so it would benefit everyone.
Sep 2, 2014, 11:17 am
#74
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 71
I'm tall and if I don't sit up straight my knees hit the seat in front of me.
I prefer to sit with me feet under the seat in front of me. The seats are small - width and pitch - but that's what I'm buying.
I never complain if the passenger wants to put their seat back. I never use a laptop in coach and in FC it is limited in usefulness. if I'm uncomfortable I just put myself into a state of relaxed meditation and I don't let anything bother me.
Using an airplane as an office is unrealistic. If your job requires you to work while traveling, I feel sorry for you. When I travel for work, my time in the seat is billable but I will only sit in the seat. I bill from door to door so I make money if a flight is delayed/cancelled.
This weekend will be my first flight in coach in 2 years so I'll see what all of the chaos is about. I'm tall and my knees will touch the seat in front of me if I don't sit up. Mrs. P and I both sit in aisle seats - same row just across the aisle.
I suppose the first seat behind EC would really suck but part of flying is being an informed traveler. That and not expecting the rest of the world to conform to your wants. I think everyone who uses a knee defender is a self centered Fxxx.
And remember no one has to do anything except die. Everything else in life is a series of choices. Chose to be angry or chose to be calm. Chose to be accommodating or chose to be demanding. Chose to accept the environment for the price you paid or chose to throw a tantrum until you get what you want.
I prefer to sit with me feet under the seat in front of me. The seats are small - width and pitch - but that's what I'm buying.
I never complain if the passenger wants to put their seat back. I never use a laptop in coach and in FC it is limited in usefulness. if I'm uncomfortable I just put myself into a state of relaxed meditation and I don't let anything bother me.
Using an airplane as an office is unrealistic. If your job requires you to work while traveling, I feel sorry for you. When I travel for work, my time in the seat is billable but I will only sit in the seat. I bill from door to door so I make money if a flight is delayed/cancelled.
This weekend will be my first flight in coach in 2 years so I'll see what all of the chaos is about. I'm tall and my knees will touch the seat in front of me if I don't sit up. Mrs. P and I both sit in aisle seats - same row just across the aisle.
I suppose the first seat behind EC would really suck but part of flying is being an informed traveler. That and not expecting the rest of the world to conform to your wants. I think everyone who uses a knee defender is a self centered Fxxx.
And remember no one has to do anything except die. Everything else in life is a series of choices. Chose to be angry or chose to be calm. Chose to be accommodating or chose to be demanding. Chose to accept the environment for the price you paid or chose to throw a tantrum until you get what you want.
When you are stuck on a 2.5 hour flight, then you want to do work instead of just sitting there staring out the window wasting 2.5 hours.
I work without issue on planes all the time. Now if someone reclined then I would not be able to open my laptop all the way to see the screen. Luckily it is very rare for someone recline so it has not been an issue lately.
Only once did I have to ask someone to not recline and they complied.
It is 100% wrong to expect the person behind you to not use their tray table just so you can recline two inches.
That is selfish and ignorant.
Sep 2, 2014, 11:19 am
#75
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 5,679
I love the comments that say "this is the fault of the airlines....if they didnt squeeze us in to cramped seats then these issues wouldnt happen"
No sir, "the cramped seats are the fault of the consumer." If the majority of consumers values additional legroom vs a token savings then airlines would have no problem providing more legroom.
Also, if space is so critical, buy EC or F.
No sir, "the cramped seats are the fault of the consumer." If the majority of consumers values additional legroom vs a token savings then airlines would have no problem providing more legroom.
Also, if space is so critical, buy EC or F.