Modernity

Basically, a change / advancement in career now has me flying transcontinental more. I like Delta a lot. Efficient, on time. No bs. I don't make the mistake that the service is about how I'm being treated in the air, but rather, understand that the service is about getting from A to B with a minimum of headache and a maximum of reliability. I also like that they use wide-bodies; to me its a smoother flight so I book the 767s when I can.

I can reliably get from my apartment in Manhattan to West Hollywood, Santa Monica, Mission District, or SoMa, in under 7 hours door to door (including security and I'm not even TSA Pre-Check) with a solid nap en route. No other airline has the type of reliability and performance for me.

If I want more leg room, I pay for it. If I want food or drink, I pay for it.

If this continues I'll earn decent status, but I'm not there yet and it will take some time.

In the mean time, I am willing to pay hard cash for these BE seats that people say are going unfilled.

I'm not willing to pay $2k, but I usually book 2-4 days before a flight, putting me at a minimum in Q and usually higher— I'm not paying $140 a leg here. I've booked flights while on AirTran at JFK at a significant premium— I know by heart how the price scale works— when it goes to ~700, when a coach fare peaks to $1033.

So what I want to know, is how do these $229-239 BE upgrades work. Sometimes I'll show up in LAX, SFO, or JFK, and they'll be on the table— sometimes not, even though BE isn't full. I've heard of people clearing upgrades over the phone, how do I make that happen?

I've got some similar flights coming up with decent open BE— so how do I get Delta to recognize I'm willing to pay something for that seat, rather than giving it to a NonRev or some Diamond who just happens to buy a whole lot of X's and fly back and forth a lot

I've looked on Delta.com, the app, and called the numbers, but it appears these upgrades are only sold at the gate? Sorry, I show up 2 minutes before door close and am the last person on the plane. I have no time or interest in being a gate louse, but I've got money that Delta is missing out on.

One day, sure, I'd love to be able to book directly into BE— but right now I have better uses for $2500. That said, there is a happy medium where Delta is absolutely losing out on revenue from me. I don't pay for my own flights but I'm flying because I'm paid to be somewhere, meaning for me there's a sweet spot where I'm willing to use my own money to upgrade my experience.

I auto-upgrade to Economy Comfort, and am willing to pay more for the BE product. Frankly, I think I'm the type of customer they want to attract with their revisions; I don't care about skymiles programs, bonuses, status, whatever, I just want to be able to take advantage of surplus inventory for a mutually agreeable price.

So why is it so hard to figure out how to get a paid upgrade? And why does no one talk about it?

CraigDaneRoberts

Delta made a recent change (~2/14) that treats BE seats on JFK-LAX/SFO/SEA like transat/pac routes. This excludes these buckets from cheap, day-of upgrades and complimentary upgrades for FFs. The assumed intent is to generate more revenue on their highest demand routes bw the most affluent US economies.

If you believe there's a reasonable chance you'll get F for $250, instead of $1750 more - you'll go for the $250 bet almost every time. If you believe there's no chance, you're more likely to spring for F on a special occasion, red-eye, etc.

If we apply this to the 15% of passengers on this route like you (~30pax on a 763), and say 10 of them hold out for, and then pay $250 for the day-of upgrade, addl rev for DL would be $2500. Now if those same pax know the $250 upgrade it isn't possible, and only 2 of the 10 pay $2500 for F, addl rev for DL would be $3500.

rylan

As mentioned above, Delta did away with medallion and paid gate upgrades on the 'premium' JFK-LAX/SFO/SEA routes. You have to pay the going rate or sit in the back.

Delta made it clear they would rather have those seats fly empty than upgrade an elite or let you pay an upgrade fee at the gate.

lsumegan

No, you're not the type of person they want to attract with their revisions. They want those people who WILL book directly into BE.

gooselee

Wait - I think OP is talking about the at-gate "standby upgrades" that are sometimes offered and, on non TCON routes, clear after medallion UGs. With medallion UGs gone on these routes, that would mean the SB upgrades have a better chance of clearing.

The answer is that sometimes DL offers these, sometimes they don't, and it's always at the gate within an hour of so of the flight, with the upgrade clearing (and your card getting charged) during boarding when they are sure the seats won't otherwise be sold or filled.

To my knowledge, there isn't a way to do or request it in advance. And the other responses are quite correct - on these routes DL is more interested in the people willing to pay $2500 for a BE seat in the first place, not those who are looking to bump up a HQK fare for a couple hundred bucks.

That sucks for OPs situation with consistent mid-level coach tickets, but that's where it is right now.

jdrtravel

Delta no longer offers these on transcon routes. This change went into effect on 3/1. There have been a few reports of people seeing them offered, but it seems to be a mistake and not the norm.

It will be interesting to see how pricing for BE seating holds on this route, especially after Jetblue comes into play in June. There is a lot of competition on this route and it would not surprise me to see BE prices coming down.

gooselee

Ah, good to know. I don't follow the JFK TCONs as much as they're not part of my pattern.

I don't know whether to hope for or dread the day that DL starts classifying ATL-West Coast flights in the same way. Completely different market, I know, but DL logic tends to elude me sometimes...

Throw Down Your Leavy Screens

Delta has, or will have, competition on nonstop JFK/EWR - SFO/LAX/SEA routes from AA, UA, and B6, not to mention those 4 cities have lots of mutual origin/destination traffic. Given the preception (or perhaps actuality) of there being "enough" people in those markets to pay for a premium product, Delta is going to try to capture that market. Also, there are multiple flights per day from NY to each of the west coast cities.

ATL has few, if any, of these factors. There is a single AS nonstop ATL-SEA per day, and a twice-daily UA ATL-SFO nonstop. While there is O/D traffic from ATL to the west coast, it's not of the same size or profit margin that that of JFK/EWR is. Basically Delta is the only game in town, and for better or for worse, doesn't have to fly a premium J product and service on those routes.

As a side note, what exactly is the definition of a transcon flight? To me, anything that is a nonstop flight from the Pacific time zone to the Eastern time zone (or vice versa) is a transcon, but that leaves some questions about cities that are closer to the time zone boundaries (LAS in Pacific; DTW, CVG, IND in Eastern).

gooselee

Right - I get all that, and it makes sense. But a small part of me also imagines some schlep on Virginia Ave. thinking "hey, we fly 777s with flatbeds ATL-LAX twice a day, so let's start marketing and charging for BE service there and eliminate medallion UGs to make people buy it since we have no competition". I realize my thought doesn't make a ton of sense, it was just a "what if" kind of thing.

In the DL forum at least, I always reserve the TCON designation for the specific JFK-SEA/SFO/LAX routes designated with BE service and subject to all the funky rules. Everything else just becomes AAA-BBB city pairs.

HongKonger

According to DL at this time it is only JFK-LAX/SFO/SEA

Modernity

The problem is this calculus will not bear out— at least I do not think it will. I know plenty of affluent flyers who simply will not pay the difference when they're the ones who have to cover it because the difference between an economy comfort product and a BE product is marginal.

The only justification is when one is flying on a high-level refundable economy ticket, and the difference is not that big. That is increasingly rare as well. More and more companies require their employees to fly in cheaper buckets or just buy new tickets rather than dealing with refundable or changeable.

What was interesting was I was told at the gate that only YMB fares were upgradeable on JFK-LAX, yet agents on the phone had told me my K fare was upgradeable.

I haven't seen anywhere where Delta published this, and, its kind of messed up for one of Delta's agents to tell me its upgradeable, and then to find out its not.

I don't care what policy is— I get pissed off when I am lied to about policy and buy a K fare which I think is upgradeable, when I can get the X for less and end up with the same product. To me, this exposes them to class action suit and I'll probably file just to be a dick, and because a good friend is a partner at a firm which handles this kind of .....

At the end of the day, Economy Comfort is a good enough product— and this is Delta's mistake. If it were comfort or BE, then of course 2/10 would upgrade at the numbers you say. But with economy comfort where I have no problem passing the .... out?

Your premium product is going to have a limit on its worth. Does it get me there faster? No. So all you are charging a markup for is marginal creature comfort on a 5hr30min flight.

Maybe $239 is too low depending on my fare. But don't match me to a full Business fare. Hell, one Delta phone agent even told me it wasn't just the cost difference, they were going to charge me the $200 change fee as well.

Thats batshit insane.

So, in a world where Delta is the only entity, they lost maybe 300-400 in revenue from me today when they let BE go out less than full.

What was it worth to me? I don't know? i get a nice meal, I feel special, I get the little tumi kit, and I get to lie flatter. But I slept the whole way including a ........ delay on the tarmac because they boarded late due an equipment change.

The flight was inoptimal because they could have had revenue from me.

So why not have an auction with people bidding on the open seats up until T-20, and then the top X bidders, X being the number of seats empty, with a minimum cost of Y per seat in BE?

And now look at the fact that Delta is not the only player in the game? JetBlue and Virgin's general product is similar to Delta Economy comfort, and cheaper, so why would I not switch to them? Costing Delta revenue.

At $2500/ticket for BE, if I've got 6 people I can fly private— and that's a better product.

So here's the deal—

Optimize your ....ing premium inventory, and get over the fact that more space and a better meal is worth X times more.

The service is getting me from A to B. Getting me there with better treatment, and more space, will never be worth more than the cost of the original service. Act accordingly, or youre going to be losing the type of customer who will be able to include 1st Class or BE airfare in their contracts.

readywhenyouare

Good one! I needed a good laugh to start out the morning.

bubbashow

I have no problem paying the difference. Many don't. That is the type of customer DL wants on this route. There are PLENTY on these routes.

tkey75

Yeah, I was (selfishly, cuz I like transcon upgrades, too) with the op until he fired out that gem. Laughable!

lsumegan

You're going to file a class action suit because one agent lied to you?