ATL to offer incentives for new int'l routes
Mar 30, 2014, 6:16 pm
#46
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Take away DL and ST partners and u've got what? Tampa, maybe? I'm sure there's awareness about that at city hall and some frustration that all the tourism promotion isn't getting more non-ST airlines to add ATL as a spoke, but they'd still rather deal with DL than become another Cincinnati.
Maybe if WN got more serious about lower fares and added more flights you could argue that ATL also is a budget hub for onward flights, but for now most of the game depends on the hub effect, i.e. people from all over the country coming in on DL and flying out on some ST airline, probably DL. Maybe the ST partners could do better in terms of adding flights to ATL, but with DL's changes to the FF program the partner tickets don't earn MQDs, and under the new regime it'll be even worse. Having the #3 alliance also doesn't help with things like this...DL has lot of its own service to Europe but is either weak or hardly present at all in other parts of the world, and airlines that could fill that in are either ornery partners (like KE), regional players (Kenyan) or already part of other alliances.
Maybe if WN got more serious about lower fares and added more flights you could argue that ATL also is a budget hub for onward flights, but for now most of the game depends on the hub effect, i.e. people from all over the country coming in on DL and flying out on some ST airline, probably DL. Maybe the ST partners could do better in terms of adding flights to ATL, but with DL's changes to the FF program the partner tickets don't earn MQDs, and under the new regime it'll be even worse. Having the #3 alliance also doesn't help with things like this...DL has lot of its own service to Europe but is either weak or hardly present at all in other parts of the world, and airlines that could fill that in are either ornery partners (like KE), regional players (Kenyan) or already part of other alliances.
Mar 30, 2014, 6:45 pm
#47
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Personally, I'd like to see CPT.
Ultralonghaul routes aren't economically viable now, so we won't see PVG, HKG, BKK, SIN, etc. even if DL had enough aircraft with those ranges.
Ultralonghaul routes aren't economically viable now, so we won't see PVG, HKG, BKK, SIN, etc. even if DL had enough aircraft with those ranges.
Mar 30, 2014, 8:25 pm
#48
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I'm not entirely sure that DL might not pick up one/resume an ultralonghaul route from ATL to Asia, despite what some of you have said. They are are very valid points, such as current economic viability and previous attempts. There's also a lot to be said about O/D feeds, and I will agree that ATL does not quite have that O/D feed for international Asian traffic, although I'm not a demographics expert. All very good points.
However, I think DL might try ONE of those routes, and I keep coming back to China, especially PVG. DL operated ATL-PVG for a few years prior to the Northwest merger and made it work fine because they didn't quite have the routes, but once the merger was complete they couldn't sustain it. Granted, I talked to three individuals who flew that route bi-weekly, up to it's final flight in 2009, and said it was completely full each time.
DL would NOT have any trouble FILLING ATL-PVG, but making it profitable is another story. With these incentives, that might just make the flight profitable. Yes, the incentives are not permanent, but then again they might change the dynamics of traffic flow enough to solidify the route and keep it profitable. Now, it could mean that shift in traffic might kill DTW-PVG, but again it's just a prediction.
One thing I can almost say for certain: DL will add at least one new international route, even if it's not an Asian or African destination.
However, I think DL might try ONE of those routes, and I keep coming back to China, especially PVG. DL operated ATL-PVG for a few years prior to the Northwest merger and made it work fine because they didn't quite have the routes, but once the merger was complete they couldn't sustain it. Granted, I talked to three individuals who flew that route bi-weekly, up to it's final flight in 2009, and said it was completely full each time.
DL would NOT have any trouble FILLING ATL-PVG, but making it profitable is another story. With these incentives, that might just make the flight profitable. Yes, the incentives are not permanent, but then again they might change the dynamics of traffic flow enough to solidify the route and keep it profitable. Now, it could mean that shift in traffic might kill DTW-PVG, but again it's just a prediction.
One thing I can almost say for certain: DL will add at least one new international route, even if it's not an Asian or African destination.
Mar 31, 2014, 10:18 am
#49
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What would be real interesting is if DL decided to really give the finger to KE and fly ATL-ICN.
Metro ATL has one of the largest Korean populations in the U.S. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Koreato...nta.2C_Georgia), and with KIA, Doosan, and Hyundai all within a short drive of Hartsfield, that would be an interesting option for DL.
While I never have been to Korea or see the need to go there, the loss of ATL's only A380 service on KE would be sad (if KE pulled out).
Metro ATL has one of the largest Korean populations in the U.S. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Koreato...nta.2C_Georgia), and with KIA, Doosan, and Hyundai all within a short drive of Hartsfield, that would be an interesting option for DL.
While I never have been to Korea or see the need to go there, the loss of ATL's only A380 service on KE would be sad (if KE pulled out).
Mar 31, 2014, 12:08 pm
#50
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Take away DL and ST partners and u've got what? Tampa, maybe? I'm sure there's awareness about that at city hall and some frustration that all the tourism promotion isn't getting more non-ST airlines to add ATL as a spoke, but they'd still rather deal with DL than become another Cincinnati.
Maybe if WN got more serious about lower fares and added more flights you could argue that ATL also is a budget hub for onward flights, but for now most of the game depends on the hub effect, i.e. people from all over the country coming in on DL and flying out on some ST airline, probably DL. Maybe the ST partners could do better in terms of adding flights to ATL, but with DL's changes to the FF program the partner tickets don't earn MQDs, and under the new regime it'll be even worse. Having the #3 alliance also doesn't help with things like this...DL has lot of its own service to Europe but is either weak or hardly present at all in other parts of the world, and airlines that could fill that in are either ornery partners (like KE), regional players (Kenyan) or already part of other alliances.
Maybe if WN got more serious about lower fares and added more flights you could argue that ATL also is a budget hub for onward flights, but for now most of the game depends on the hub effect, i.e. people from all over the country coming in on DL and flying out on some ST airline, probably DL. Maybe the ST partners could do better in terms of adding flights to ATL, but with DL's changes to the FF program the partner tickets don't earn MQDs, and under the new regime it'll be even worse. Having the #3 alliance also doesn't help with things like this...DL has lot of its own service to Europe but is either weak or hardly present at all in other parts of the world, and airlines that could fill that in are either ornery partners (like KE), regional players (Kenyan) or already part of other alliances.
Asia is also better served by DL than AA (though with JL if you can get a codeshare and a fare basis that allows interline/codeshares AA is very powerful in Asia.)
Most of my flying to East/SE Asia is on CX anyhow...
Mar 31, 2014, 9:59 pm
#51
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To give credit to DL I will say that they have more service to Africa than AA (without transiting in Europe.)
Asia is also better served by DL than AA (though with JL if you can get a codeshare and a fare basis that allows interline/codeshares AA is very powerful in Asia.)
Most of my flying to East/SE Asia is on CX anyhow...
Asia is also better served by DL than AA (though with JL if you can get a codeshare and a fare basis that allows interline/codeshares AA is very powerful in Asia.)
Most of my flying to East/SE Asia is on CX anyhow...
Mar 31, 2014, 11:35 pm
#52
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I agree. You won't see it. That's for sure. Nobody will ever tell you. ATL-TLV is out of questions. Because they tried, but DL had decide to discontinue all flight ATL-TLV. Due to routes change.
No, they won't be back. They tried, but they pull out of ATL-TLV completely.
No, they won't be back. They tried, but they pull out of ATL-TLV completely.
Mar 31, 2014, 11:38 pm
#53
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I didn't realize know that. When it did happen? Did they tried? I tried to fly nonstop from ATL-BSL or JFK-BSL. I had go through CDG or AMS.
Apr 1, 2014, 12:41 pm
#54
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Apr 1, 2014, 6:35 pm
#55
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No, actually, I had go through CDG and on the way back home. I had go through AMS from BSL. LHR is a slots restrictions. I don't want go through LHR.
Apr 25, 2014, 12:15 am
#57
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Here is the resolution: http://citycouncil.atlantaga.gov/201...ed/14R3388.pdf
During yesterday's investor webcast, DL management confirmed they would definitely be applying to take advantage of this incentive program - so looks like we'll very likely see one or more new ATL international routes from DL.
During yesterday's investor webcast, DL management confirmed they would definitely be applying to take advantage of this incentive program - so looks like we'll very likely see one or more new ATL international routes from DL.
Apr 25, 2014, 9:14 am
#58
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Any guesses as to the choice...
Shanghai? would require 777, so maybe not until new widebodies arrive
Tel Aviv ?
Moscow?
a new Brazilian city or additional frequencies to existing?
Shanghai? would require 777, so maybe not until new widebodies arrive
Tel Aviv ?
Moscow?
a new Brazilian city or additional frequencies to existing?
Apr 25, 2014, 11:03 am
#60
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How many Euro-based pax are they aggregating in AMS for the AMS-BOM route? Seems like if they are trying to get North Americans to BOM, the most logical place to do that is in ATL. However, they'd need something bigger than the 767 they have on the AMS-BOM route to do it.