twilliam414

Hello everyone,

I have a trip coming up in November that takes me ORD-JFK-GRU-POA with a somewhat dicey connection, mainly in JFK (1:26) and to a lesser extent at GRU (2:00). The thread on JFK connections has given me quite a solid idea of what I will be needing going T2 to T4, regional jet to international. On time, I feel that I'm solid. I'll be EC (JFK-GRU), without status, connecting through GRU to a Brazilian domestic code-share on Gol, all booked through Delta as one ticket.

The issue is ORD-JFK....... DL3510 - 3:17P-6:35P, on-time rate hovering consistently below 50%. While delay is most definitely built into the schedule, early November can get dicey with wind above all else, and both airports I generally tend to avoid for any complex itineraries. I've been paying attention to these flights and around 1/3rd of the time I would miss my connection. JFK-GRU is once daily. The idea of relying on the timeliness of a regional jet on this flight segment is a bit absurd, but it saved me around $200.

There is a flight 3 hours earlier ORD-JFK and I have no issue with an extended layover - I recently got an Amex SkyMiles Gold and $25 doesn't bother me for the Sky Lounge. I've been paying attention to these flights and around 1/3rd of the time I would miss my connection. JFK-GRU is once daily. The idea of relying on the timeliness of a regional jet on this flight segment is a bit absurd, but it saved me around $200.

Is it at all feasible to make my case to Delta that they should let me change to the earlier ORD-JFK?

My girlfriend just two months ago was going BNA-ATL-GRU-POA with only 1:15 in ATL and after BNA-ATL was delayed an hour Delta was quite good with letting her stay in Nashville rather than stranded in Atlanta until the following evening and sorting out any potential mess with Gol for the final stretch. This, and a well handled pseudo-Med Vac out of Santiago, clinches DL in my eyes in comparison with other US airlines for international travel (2-4x/yr to Southern Cone). Still, I'd love avoiding the hour wait around the baggage carousel after my bag is saved, the 45+min ride out to the airport, etc.

Besides this question, I've gleaned the situation of my two layovers, and thanks for making both clear to a newbie to the forum.

misterbean

Like you said, if you're on time, 1:26 is enough, although not much - MCT D-I is 1:15 at JFK. Slight delay and you might be scrambling.

Technically, DL is not obligated to change your ticket for free, since your connection is over the MCT. However, that doesn't not mean you won't be able to find one that will waive the fee. Call, be polite, explain the proximity to the MCT and the notorious reputation of this flight, and maybe you'll get lucky. If you find an unsympathetic agent, you can always Hang Up And Try Again (HUATA).

xliioper

Someone just posted in the JFK MCT thread that EF is currently showing MCT of 55 minutes for DL - DL Dom-Int T2-T4. 1:15 is the general D-I MCT at JFK, you need to be looking at the ones specific to DL.

Don't currently have an EF account to verify, but I have no reason to doubt it. I'm guessing it's been updated to reflect the new Jitney shuttle. Note that someone should update the Wiki info in that thread with current EF info as it's apparently out of date.

misterbean

Thanks for the correction.

tennessetom

The problem with New York in general is weather. It really does not take much to get long ground delays coming into new york. Summer is the worst because of the thunder storms November is normally not too bad but you have very little time for any sort of delay and for whatever reason the regional jets seem to get even lower priority being cleared for NYC hence the low on time record

I have always had luck with Delta calling close to the flight date and saying that I have been watching the flights for the last x number of days and it looks like on most days I would have missed my connection. Also if you are traveling before hand try at the airport in the skyclub. I don't know ORD that well but most skyclubs you can get someone who will try to help you if you stand there and are nice.

as far as JFK itself - if you are in close to on time you have plenty of time - the shuttle bus seems to be very frequent and relatively quick. Maybe it is just me but i rarely have ground issues at JFK. Usually the gate is ready and the gate agents get the doors opened fairly fast unlike other airports where you think you have it made and get killed with the no gate ten minutes to get the door opened

MSPeconomist

Someone should update the wiki? Why not you? It's easy: just click on the edit button at the bottom.

xliioper

Like I said, I don't have EF access right now. Probably would be better if someone who can verify the changes makes the update.

deltaflyer08

You should still have enough time even if your flight from ORD-JFK is slightly delayed but any major delays will probably cause you to miss your JFK-GRU flight.

Often1

The issue with these things isn't whether you misconnect, it's what happens if you misconnect.

If your onward is an hour flight, it likely doesn't matter. But, in OP's case, it's a major mess with absolutely no guarantee that there would even be space on the next day's non-stop and the alternatives being pretty awful routings.

The MCT merely represents a carrier's willingness to sell a connection and bear the cost of rebooking (and, if it's MX maybe a hotel voucher). It's not really a particularly reliable way of determining whether a given connection is a good idea. 1:26 means 56 minutes because DL requires OP to be at the xJFK departure gate by T-30. If the flight is in danger of oversell, OP loses his seat at that point. 56 mins. is doable, but that's contingent on ATC (the more likely culprit at this time of day), WX and whatever else is irking the system that day.

I would definitely switch the flight. If OP can get the change for free, that's great. But, if he can't, he's got to evaluate the change fee vs. an extra day of his time + hotel + food. The old hang up & call back seems to work less and less as DL's software documents stuff better and the next agent knows you've previously been told no.

Waiting isn't a good thing because the passage of time may well mean that the fare basis xMIA disappears and the cost of the change becomes the fee + fare difference.

twilliam414

OK, so I called Delta via the SkyMiles # to make my case - 30-50% chance of missing a connection, one flight a day, codeshare in Brazil, etc. The agent seemed pretty receptive, and I had right in front of me the flight # I wanted to be switched to. She said something about needing to calculate the fare difference (my fare class no longer available ORD-JFK) and, after 15 minutes on hold, comes back with the figure of $349! The fare difference is $49, which I'd be more than happy to pay for, but the circumstances to me seem like discretion could be exercised with the $300 change fee.

I understand that, in the end, the people on the phone are helpless underlings below a strong pressure to squeeze every dollar possible out of the traveller. I know that I should have been more cautious with my itinerary, although this particular one was crafted on ITA and $150 cheaper than any other DL option. The minimum transfer time should take into account the initial flight's on-time percentage. Right now, flightstats.com puts DL3510 at 62% on-time with an average delay of 68 minutes, and less than a month ago on-time was around 40%.

Alas, should I just leave this matter be and not try to stress out about it until the time comes? Does anybody who I (lacking status) would get through to that would have the ability to override the change fee?

RobertS975

Sorry to say, I do not have much sympathy for you. You chose the flights and it is indeed a legal connection. But it is a risky connection for the reasons that you have already stated.

The res agent is not trying to squeeze every penny out of you. The computer will simply not allow any other choice without a supervisor override code.

Often1

OP chose the flights, OP chose to book a non-flexible (and cheaper fare) and now he wants to make a change. The change fee of $300 + fare change was disclosed before he purchased. The MCT for JFK is available as is the on-time percentage for the flight he chose. To suggest that DL is "squeezing" him or that DL ought to revise its MCT is incorrect and that attitude must have shown through.

OP is free to call DL back. Another agent and supervisor might be more sympathetic. But, with DL's new software, the information, e.g. $349, provided to OP originally will be available and it's much less likely that another agent/supervisor will override. That's particularly because there is no reason to do so.

OP is an experienced traveler. His other posts suggest other international trips with complex issues. This one isn't complex and all of the information is available so that he as a consumer can make his choices.

Emirates202

I was on the 3:15 dep from ORD to JFK last month, and we were delayed about 5 hours. They said weather but weather in both NY and Chicago was excellent. Probably some weather en route. Anyway, after it was delayed I went to the SC and they put me on a 4pm to LGA. All was going well, we taxied out, then the captain came on the PA saying that JFK and LGA had a groundstop, so we had to return to gate. I went back to SC and they put me back on my original, since the rest of the shuttles to LGA for the night were canceled. At around 7 we boarded the original flight to JFK (which I was kind of happy about since my car was at JFK) And we taxied out. Then the captain came on and said that traffic was very heavy into NY airports so well have to wait. We just waited on the Tarmac for about 45 minutes , and then we finally departed. It was pretty nice of delta to make this originally no meal flight into a dinner one because of the delay. In the end , we landed at about 11pm. The point of this is that if the weather is fine, you should be too, but I would play it safe if I was you and take an earlier one .

Emirates202

twilliam414

Often1 -

I'm in no way trying to play a helpless victim in this case - I hesitated when booking this trip specifically because of this connection. I know that MCTs can be B.S., particularly when dealing with ORD or JFK, let alone one to the other. My comfortable BNA-DTW-GRU-POA that I had been eyeing for weeks went up a few hundred before I finally could pay for the tickets, so I held my nose and bought what was available. I just hadn't looked into how much of a trainwreck that ORD-JFK flight is.

If the best solution is "chill, deal with it" I'm fine with doing that, but I thought it wouldn't be a bad idea just to ask people more knowledgable than myself to avoid any unnecessary trip-related stress, if there was some fairly easy way to minimize my risk of missing any connections.

robbert

With DL there is always the chance that you'd get a schedule change that will allow you a free change. If that doesn't work you can go to the airport early and standby or try SDC (not sure about the rules, but I believe starting 24 hours prior and can do online during check-in?).

I would most definitely change the flight, NYC airports have too many delays. I chose a 7 hour connection over a 2 1/2 one in EWR coming in on a DH8. Rather spend some time in the club than sitting on the runway counting down my connection.