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Old Jun 19, 13, 9:17 am   #31
 
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Originally Posted by Delta 764 View Post
It looks like they were able to add a third lavatory in the back, which should compensate for the loss the forward Y lav.
I remember there was a news story on how DL actually managed to make the size of the lavs smaller to fit more seats in the 739.

With a 30" pitch for some of Y, it looks like a plane to avoid for longer flights.
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Old Jun 19, 13, 9:25 am   #32
 
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both seat maps seem to be a little skimpy on the preferred (blue) seats, no?
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Old Jun 19, 13, 9:42 am   #33
 
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Interesting that, at least according to seat guru, Delta removed two rows from the setup that airtran had in Y. I supposed to accommodate EC, and maybe the closet which does not appear on the seat guru map (but maybe its just not displayed)?

http://www.seatguru.com/airlines/Air...ng_717-200.php
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Old Jun 19, 13, 9:43 am   #34
 
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Interesting that, at least according to seat guru, Delta removed two rows from the setup that airtran had in Y. I supposed to accommodate EC, and maybe the closet which does not appear on the seat guru map (but maybe its just not displayed)?

http://www.seatguru.com/airlines/Air...ng_717-200.php
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Old Jun 19, 13, 9:56 am   #35
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdrtravel View Post
Interesting that, at least according to seat guru, Delta removed two rows from the setup that airtran had in Y. I supposed to accommodate EC, and maybe the closet which does not appear on the seat guru map (but maybe its just not displayed)?

http://www.seatguru.com/airlines/Air...ng_717-200.php
Delta seat pitch in Y is 31in while Air Tran was 30in. Also Delta only removed one row of seats and 2 seats at exit row (7 Total). Air Tran skipped from row 12 to 14 according to Seat Guru.
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Old Jun 19, 13, 10:31 am   #36
 
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Originally Posted by mbaker0936 View Post
Delta seat pitch in Y is 31in while Air Tran was 30in. Also Delta only removed one row of seats and 2 seats at exit row (7 Total). Air Tran skipped from row 12 to 14 according to Seat Guru.
Good catch.
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Old Jun 19, 13, 12:07 pm   #37
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Originally Posted by javabytes View Post
As expected, worse F:Y ratios than the aircraft they are replacing. At least the seats on the 717 will be a bit wider.
What are the numbers, including the comparison? How bad will it be?
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Old Jun 19, 13, 12:18 pm   #38
 
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Originally Posted by MSPeconomist View Post
What are the numbers, including the comparison? How bad will it be?
I assume javabytes was referring to the old 752s that they're expected to replace. Those numbers are, at least for the domestic 752s, the same as 738s: 17.2 in seat width; 34" pitch in EC, 31-32" pitch in Y; 21" width in F, 37-38" pitch.
The 739 has the same width for each respective class, and EC has the same pitch; but Y is now 30-31" and F is 37" pitch.

F:Y is 20 F 160 Y, which is down from the 22 24 or 26 F to ~160 Y (+/- a few seats).
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Old Jun 19, 13, 12:30 pm   #39
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I really like the "solo" seat in the exit row on the 717. Great when traveling alone. Had it on the MD-90 a few times. Also like seeing the extra legroom seats in the exit row (Row 21 for both layouts) with no seat in front in Row 20. Hope to see these birds on some of the common routes I fly.

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Originally Posted by javabytes View Post
As expected, worse F:Y ratios than the aircraft they are replacing. At least the seats on the 717 will be a bit wider.
But still a better F/Y ratio than other similar aircraft in the fleet.
737-900: 20F of 180 total seats: 11%
737-800: 16F of 160 total seats: 10%
757-200: Averages around 12-13% depending on the exact layout.
757-300: 24F out of 224 total seats: 11%

717: 12F of 110 total seats: 11%
MD-88: 16F out of 149 seats: 11%
MD-90: 16F out of 160 seats: 10%
DC-9: 16F out of 120 total seats: 13%

So a slight loss but really you can't add just one or two more F seats - you have to add a whole a row of four, which comes at a significant loss of seats in the back. Also, the ratio of EC (at least at a quick glance), especially for the 737-900, looks to be an improvement.
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Old Jun 19, 13, 12:58 pm   #40
 
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Originally Posted by FlyDeltaJets87 View Post
So a slight loss but really you can't add just one or two more F seats - you have to add a whole a row of four, which comes at a significant loss of seats in the back. Also, the ratio of EC (at least at a quick glance), especially for the 737-900, looks to be an improvement.
You can't add 1 F seat maybe but you can definitely add a half row; look at row 10 on the 737-900. Instead of a half row of EC it could be a half-row of F. By the same token they could have made the closet instead of 2 FC seats and had a complete row 10. So thanks to DL for that!
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Old Jun 19, 13, 1:25 pm   #41
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Originally Posted by CPMaverick View Post
You can't add 1 F seat maybe but you can definitely add a half row; look at row 10 on the 737-900. Instead of a half row of EC it could be a half-row of F. By the same token they could have made the closet instead of 2 FC seats and had a complete row 10. So thanks to DL for that!
You may think it's that easy but the impact of making row 10 two FC seats instead of EC could be more than you think, as it becomes a snowball effect up to the exit row seats and their alignment with the exits, which is fixed. Unless there's a lot of extra room in Row 10 (and I'll admit, sometimes there is a huge amount of extra legroom in the first row of EC on some aircraft), two more FC seats would impact where EC actually starts. FC seats have 37" of legroom which already tight so you can't really compress the FC seats forward any further. EC seats have certain legroom (34") and you can't compress those. Standard Y seats are 30-31" so they're as tight as you can get as well. You could adjust the amount of EC and Y seats (add more or less EC to get proper alignment), but adjusting the ratios of F to EC to Standard Y would be a little more difficult than you think and is as much a practical decision as it is a revenue-based one.
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Old Jun 19, 13, 1:35 pm   #42
 
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Originally Posted by FlyDeltaJets87 View Post
You may think it's that easy but the impact of making row 10 two FC seats instead of EC could be more than you think, as it becomes a snowball effect up to the exit row seats and their alignment with the exits, which is fixed. Unless there's a lot of extra room in Row 10 (and I'll admit, sometimes there is a huge amount of extra legroom in the first row of EC on some aircraft), two more FC seats would impact where EC actually starts. FC seats have 37" of legroom which already tight so you can't really compress the FC seats forward any further. EC seats have certain legroom (34") and you can't compress those. Standard Y seats are 30-31" so they're as tight as you can get as well. You could adjust the amount of EC and Y seats (add more or less EC to get proper alignment), but adjusting the ratios of F to EC to Standard Y would be a little more difficult than you think and is as much a practical decision as it is a revenue-based one.
I agree with everything you said, but the fact is you can have asymmetric rows of FC if it makes sense. And on some aircraft, it does.
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Old Jun 19, 13, 1:55 pm   #43
 
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Originally Posted by FlyDeltaJets87 View Post
I really like the "solo" seat in the exit row on the 717. Great when traveling alone. Had it on the MD-90 a few times. Also like seeing the extra legroom seats in the exit row (Row 21 for both layouts) with no seat in front in Row 20. Hope to see these birds on some of the common routes I fly.


But still a better F/Y ratio than other similar aircraft in the fleet.
737-900: 20F of 180 total seats: 11%
737-800: 16F of 160 total seats: 10%
757-200: Averages around 12-13% depending on the exact layout.
757-300: 24F out of 224 total seats: 11%

717: 12F of 110 total seats: 11%
MD-88: 16F out of 149 seats: 11%
MD-90: 16F out of 160 seats: 10%
DC-9: 16F out of 120 total seats: 13%

So a slight loss but really you can't add just one or two more F seats - you have to add a whole a row of four, which comes at a significant loss of seats in the back. Also, the ratio of EC (at least at a quick glance), especially for the 737-900, looks to be an improvement.
For comparison, here are the Airbus narrowbodies and the 737-700:
A319: 12F out of 126 total seats: 9.5%
A320: 12F out of 150 total seats: 8%
737-700: 12F out of 124 total seats: 9.7%

The 739ER F/Y ratio isn't that bad. Not as good as the 757s, but better than the Airbus narrowbodies, 73G/738, and the MD-90. I remember some people worrying that DL would go with a 16F layout on the 739ER (considering US Airways has 16F on its A321s, with American likely to follow); luckily that didn't happen.
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Old Jun 19, 13, 2:56 pm   #44
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The CRJ-900s have nice ratios of FC to coach.
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Old Jun 19, 13, 3:55 pm   #45
 
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Originally Posted by MSPeconomist View Post
The CRJ-900s have nice ratios of FC to coach.
As do the E175s. It's a shame DL chose Canadair over Embraer for its next RJ order, as I much prefer the E175/E170 over the CR9/CR7.
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