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AirFrance.us shows award seats, Delta does not see them

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AirFrance.us shows award seats, Delta does not see them

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Old Oct 21, 2012, 3:25 pm
  #91  
 
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Originally Posted by aubreyfromwheaton
I'm still seeing classic biz awards available on FB site, but not appearing on dl.com
Do the corresponding flights have O inventory visible in EF? I suspect that AF/KL may be rationing the award space they make available to partners.
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Old Oct 21, 2012, 7:32 pm
  #92  
 
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Originally Posted by aubreyfromwheaton
I'm still seeing classic biz awards available on FB site, but not appearing on dl.com
We're you searching by schedule? Iveseen some that won't show up when searching by price, but are listed first when searching by schedule.
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Old Oct 22, 2012, 8:12 pm
  #93  
 
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Clearly something has changed. I can find all kinds of seats on AF.com that do not show up on DL.com - no matter if I search by schedule, price, leg by leg, backwards, forwards, upside down, in German, in French, in the morning, in the evening - Delta.com does not show those Air France flights, Sam I am.

Of course, I am sure no one at Delta will own up to this....
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Old Oct 22, 2012, 10:17 pm
  #94  
 
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Originally Posted by mizzou miles
Clearly something has changed. I can find all kinds of seats on AF.com that do not show up on DL.com - no matter if I search by schedule, price, leg by leg, backwards, forwards, upside down, in German, in French, in the morning, in the evening - Delta.com does not show those Air France flights, Sam I am.

Of course, I am sure no one at Delta will own up to this....
Are the seats showing O inventory on ExpertFlyer? It appears that AF has started going the way of some members of other alliances and is releasing less inventory to partners than they make available to their own members. If there's O inventory in EF that's not available on DL.dumb, then it's DL doing something. If it only shows on the FB engine, that's no longer a good benchmark.
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Old Oct 24, 2012, 7:50 am
  #95  
 
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Unbelievable! FB shows availability on 5 flights at classic level and DL.dumb is showing nothing!

Saw 2 J on 5 different flights June 13th CDG-JFK on FB and DL is showing no avail online.

Anyone know if the more experienced agents at Delta are able to see the inventory by doing a long sell?
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Old Oct 24, 2012, 8:03 am
  #96  
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Originally Posted by michael2500
Unbelievable! FB shows availability on 5 flights at classic level and DL.dumb is showing nothing!

Saw 2 J on 5 different flights June 13th CDG-JFK on FB and DL is showing no avail online.

Anyone know if the more experienced agents at Delta are able to see the inventory by doing a long sell?
It was discussed many times in this forum. AF blocks many seats for their FlyingBlue members. Whatever you see on airfrance.us may not be bookable on Delta.com. If you have ExpertFlyer subscription, you should check availability using it. Because whatever EF shows, it is available (and bookable) on Delta.com
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Old Oct 25, 2012, 5:09 pm
  #97  
 
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Originally Posted by jk2
It was discussed many times in this forum. AF blocks many seats for their FlyingBlue members. Whatever you see on airfrance.us may not be bookable on Delta.com. If you have ExpertFlyer subscription, you should check availability using it. Because whatever EF shows, it is available (and bookable) on Delta.com
So what class are the AF seats for FB members only?

Other threads say if O = 1 then you can't see it, but only if O = 2 can you see one, then other threads say can't see any...

I think my June middle east award trip will be on *A using UA miles...
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Old Oct 25, 2012, 5:53 pm
  #98  
 
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Originally Posted by aubreyfromwheaton
So what class are the AF seats for FB members only?

Other threads say if O = 1 then you can't see it, but only if O = 2 can you see one, then other threads say can't see any...

I think my June middle east award trip will be on *A using UA miles...
It appears that it's something that AF/KL isn't publishing to the GDS at the moment.
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Old Oct 25, 2012, 6:14 pm
  #99  
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Originally Posted by aubreyfromwheaton
Other threads say if O = 1 then you can't see it
Tested and disproved. EF showed O1 and delta.com saw it.

Originally Posted by aubreyfromwheaton

but only if O = 2 can you see one
I'm not going to look for EF = O2 specifically, but in a case where O>1, delta.com also could see more than 1.

Originally Posted by aubreyfromwheaton
then other threads say can't see any...
Tested and disproved over and over again.

I'm done for a while trying to use www.airfrance.us to find SkyMiles award availability on AF, but I believe one can use EF with some confidence.
Last edited by 3Cforme; Oct 25, 2012 at 6:26 pm
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Old Oct 25, 2012, 6:39 pm
  #100  
 
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Originally Posted by 3Cforme
I'm done for a while trying to use www.airfrance.us to find SkyMiles award availability on AF, but I believe one can use EF with some confidence.
Absolutely agree with this. While it's hard to find availability on KLM (and especially AF), but if EF shows it then it's almost certainly bookable on Delta.dumb.

I had issues both using the website and getting an agent to book a KL flight that showed O availability on EF, but was eventually successful after another attempt online.

I even briefly found some JFK-CDG-JFK O availablity on AF over Thanksgiving week that was bookable on Delta but that's gone now. EF is definitely the easy way to go for AF/KLM redemption using SkyMiles.
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Old Oct 26, 2012, 11:30 am
  #101  
 
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I have a stupid question- I read the thread and EF supposedly shows award availability for FB and Delta? I went to the EF website and under delta, they say they only show upgrades. I want to see award seats- I'm not high enough to worry about upgrades, so I have to use full miles. Would EF help me see the delta award seats available on both AF and DL metal?
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Old Oct 26, 2012, 12:25 pm
  #102  
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Originally Posted by Lisa Flyer
I have a stupid question- I read the thread and EF supposedly shows award availability for FB and Delta? I went to the EF website and under delta, they say they only show upgrades. I want to see award seats- I'm not high enough to worry about upgrades, so I have to use full miles. Would EF help me see the delta award seats available on both AF and DL metal?
Lisa
No, to search for awards on Air France metal you would choose AF as the airline in the Award search tool. The results there should reflect what is on the AF website, which may or may not reflect what Delta shows, but largely has in the past.
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Old Oct 26, 2012, 3:56 pm
  #103  
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Originally Posted by KVS
AF's systems are currently continuing to block (refuse) partner Award requests for its TATL routes for departures earlier than ~ 06 Jun 2013.

All AF Award Seats continue to be accessible to FB members.

KVS Tool members can identify the blocked flights by comparing the results, shown by the [Awards/SkyTeam] Method (where the results are not subject to the block) to the [Awards/JL-OneWorld] Method: On blocked flights, requests will result in the "Engine Error/Unsupported Route/Invalid Cabin Class" Error Message or will be displayed with a [false] No Such Cabin ("/") indicator.
Update: AF partner Award Availability 'blocking window' has 'shifted' from ~Jun 2013 to ~Jan 2013.
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Old Oct 26, 2012, 4:15 pm
  #104  
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Originally Posted by KVS
Update: AF partner Award Availability 'blocking window' has 'shifted' from ~Jun 2013 to ~Jan 2013.
Can you explain how we should interpret that, given that ExpertFlyer shows AF-operated award seats before 1/1/2013, that are found available on delta.com?
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Old Oct 26, 2012, 5:13 pm
  #105  
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Originally Posted by 3Cforme
Can you explain how we should interpret that, given that ExpertFlyer shows AF-operated award seats before 1/1/2013, that are found available on delta.com?
It appears that there was a [brief] period last week, when the Blocking was lifted, but it is now back again.

Looking at your example in Post #89, AF 23 & AF 11 on 03 Dec are currently blocked:

[KVS Availability Tool 7.0.8.R1/Diamond - Amadeus: Awards/SkyTeam/FR-AF]
Code:
JFK  New York John F Kennedy Intl NY US [KJFK]
CDG  Paris Charles De Gaulle FR [LFPG]
MON  03 Dec 2012 | 1 Seat

Carrier    Flight  From  Depart    To    Arrive         St  Availability
---------  ------  ----  --------  ----  --------  ---  --  -------------
AF         23      JFK   16:45     CDG   06:00 +1           CS9  WS9  YS9
AF         7       JFK   19:10     CDG   08:25 +1           CX0  WS9  YS9
AF         11      JFK   21:45     CDG   10:50 +1           CS5  WS3  YS4
DL         6074    JFK   14:30     YUL   16:15              CS0  WS/  YS6
 -> AF     347     YUL   19:55     CDG   08:30 +1
DL         1589    JFK   14:35     WAS   16:07              CS0  WS/  YS+
 -> AF     55      IAD   19:20     CDG   08:35 +1
DL         4105    JFK   15:00     IAD   16:33              CS0  WS/  YS+
 -> AF     55      IAD   19:20     CDG   08:35 +1
KL         642     JFK   17:45     AMS   07:10 +1           CX0  WX/  YS9
 -> AF     1241    AMS   09:30 +1  CDG   10:45 +1
KL         642     JFK   17:45     AMS   07:10 +1           CX0  WX/  YS9
 -> AF     1341    AMS   10:45 +1  CDG   12:00 +1
KL         642     JFK   17:45     AMS   07:10 +1           CS1  WX/  YS9
 -> KL     1233    AMS   12:30 +1  CDG   13:45 +1
KL         642     JFK   17:45     AMS   07:10 +1           CX0  WX/  YA9
 -> KL     1229    AMS   08:00 +1  CDG   09:25 +1
DL         567     JFK   18:30     DTW   20:49              CS0  WS/  YS+
 -> AF     377     DTW   21:35     CDG   11:15 +1
DL         94      JFK   19:35     BCN   09:25 +1           CS4  WS/  YS+
 -> AF     1149    BCN   10:25 +1  CDG   12:20 +1
DL         106     JFK   19:40     FRA   09:45 +1           CS7  WS/  YS+
 -> AF     1519    FRA   10:40 +1  CDG   12:00 +1
DL         126     JFK   19:45     MAD   09:15 +1           CS0  WS/  YS+
 -> AF     1001    MAD   10:15 +1  CDG   12:20 +1
DL         5       JFK   21:15     LHR   09:25 +1           CS1  WS/  YS0
 -> AF     1981    LHR   12:45 +1  CDG   15:00 +1
KL         644     JFK   22:50     AMS   12:00 +1           CX0  WX/  YA9
 -> AF     1641    AMS   13:55 +1  CDG   15:10 +1
KL         644     JFK   22:50     AMS   12:00 +1           CX0  WX/  YA9
 -> AF     1741    AMS   15:20 +1  CDG   16:35 +1
KL         644     JFK   22:50     AMS   12:00 +1           CX0  WX/  YA9
 -> KL     1243    AMS   16:20 +1  CDG   17:45 +1
KL         644     JFK   22:50     AMS   12:00 +1           CX0  WX/  YA9
 -> KL     1245    AMS   17:45 +1  CDG   19:00 +1
[KVS Availability Tool 7.0.8.R1/Diamond - WSpan: Awards/DL-SkyTeam/US-P]
Code:
JFK  New York John F Kennedy Intl NY US [KJFK]
CDG  Paris Charles De Gaulle FR [LFPG]
MON  03 Dec 2012 | 1 Seat

Carrier    Flight  From  Depart    To    Arrive    A/C  St  Availability
---------  ------  ----  --------  ----  --------  ---  --  ------------
DL         184     JFK   19:00     CDG   08:25 +1  764  0   CM+  YM+
DL         693     JFK   16:29     DTW   18:53     M88  0   FM+  YM+
 -> DL     590     DTW   18:00 +1  CDG   07:55 +2  333  0   CM+  YM+
DL         1643    JFK   19:00     ATL   21:52     763  0   FM+  YM+
 -> DL     28      ATL   15:20 +1  CDG   06:10 +2  763  0   CM+  YM+
DL         1743    JFK   06:10     ATL   08:44     757  0   FM+  YM+
 -> DL     28      ATL   15:30     CDG   06:10 +1  333  0   CM+  YM+
DL/9E      3360    JFK   19:40     CVG   21:59     CR9  0   FM+  YM+
 -> DL     44      CVG   17:50 +1  CDG   08:00 +2  76W  0   CM+  YM+
DL         567     JFK   18:30     DTW   20:49     319  0   FM+  YM+
 -> DL     590     DTW   18:00 +1  CDG   07:55 +2  333  0   CM+  YM+
DL/9E      3538    JFK   08:05     MSP   10:26     CR9  0   FM+  YM+
 -> DL     220     MSP   17:10     CDG   08:35 +1  332  0   CM+  YM+
DL         2043    JFK   13:30     ATL   15:59     737  0   FX+  YM+
 -> DL     28      ATL   15:20 +1  CDG   06:10 +2  763  0   CM+  YM+
DL         269     JFK   08:10     ATL   10:39     319  0   CX+  YA+
 -> DL     28      ATL   15:30     CDG   06:10 +1  333  0   CM+  YM+
DL         94      JFK   19:35     BCN   09:25 +1  763  0   CS+  YS+
 -> AF     1949    BCN   18:20 +1  CDG   20:15 +1  320  0   CS+  YS+
DL         94      JFK   19:35     BCN   09:25 +1  763  0   CS+  YS+
 -> AF     1349    BCN   12:55 +1  CDG   14:50 +1  320  0   CS+  YS+
DL         94      JFK   19:35     BCN   09:25 +1  763  0   CS+
 -> AF     1149    BCN   10:25 +1  CDG   12:20 +1  319  0   CS+
DL         94      JFK   19:35     BCN   09:25 +1  763  0   CS+  YS+
 -> AF     1649    BCN   15:55 +1  CDG   17:50 +1  321  0   CS+  YS+
DL         94      JFK   19:35     BCN   09:25 +1  763  0   CS+  YS+
 -> AF     2049    BCN   20:20 +1  CDG   22:15 +1  319  0   CS+  YS+
DL         5       JFK   21:15     LHR   09:25 +1  764  0   CS+
 -> AF     1981    LHR   12:45 +1  CDG   15:00 +1  321  0   CS+
DL         5       JFK   21:15     LHR   09:25 +1  764  0   CS+
 -> AF     2281    LHR   16:00 +1  CDG   18:10 +1  321  0   CS+
DL         5       JFK   21:15     LHR   09:25 +1  764  0   CS+
 -> AF     2581    LHR   18:00 +1  CDG   20:10 +1  321  0   CS+
DL         5       JFK   21:15     LHR   09:25 +1  764  0   CS+
 -> AF     1181    LHR   20:15 +1  CDG   22:25 +1  321  0   CS+
DL         106     JFK   19:40     FRA   09:45 +1  763  0   CS+
 -> AF     2419    FRA   20:40 +1  CDG   22:00 +1  320  0   CS+
DL         106     JFK   19:40     FRA   09:45 +1  763  0   CS+
 -> AF     1519    FRA   10:40 +1  CDG   12:00 +1  319  0   CS+
DL         95      JFK   15:50     ATL   18:29     757  0   YM+
 -> DL     28      ATL   15:20 +1  CDG   06:10 +2  763  0   YM+
DL         126     JFK   19:45     MAD   09:15 +1  763  0   YS+
 -> AF     1001    MAD   10:15 +1  CDG   12:20 +1  320  0   YS+
DL         126     JFK   19:45     MAD   09:15 +1  763  0   YS+
 -> AF     1301    MAD   12:35 +1  CDG   14:40 +1  319  0   YS+
DL         126     JFK   19:45     MAD   09:15 +1  763  0   YS+
 -> AF     1601    MAD   15:35 +1  CDG   17:40 +1  320  0   YS+
DL         126     JFK   19:45     MAD   09:15 +1  763  0   YS+
 -> AF     1901    MAD   20:15 +1  CDG   22:20 +1  319  0   YS+
DL         126     JFK   19:45     MAD   09:15 +1  763  0   YS+
 -> AF     1701    MAD   17:00 +1  CDG   19:05 +1  319  0   YS+
DL         126     JFK   19:45     MAD   09:15 +1  763  0   YS+
 -> AF     1801    MAD   18:25 +1  CDG   20:30 +1  320  0   YS+
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