DL Hub Strategy - Casual Discussion Thread
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Home: Arlington, VA; Home airports: IAD/DCA/BWI
Programs: Active: AA, UA, DL
Posts: 4,093
DL Hub Strategy - Casual Discussion Thread
In my process of getting Deltified, I'm trying to understand DL's approaches to its (numerous) USA hubs. What's your take / interpretation; where do I get it wrong?
JFK - O&D markets, particularly to/from Europe, including second tier cities; compete with UA/CO for NYC-based traffic; hub 2 for African destinations
ATL - Serve domestic business travelers doing business in the Atlanta area; hub for passengers traveling to/from the southeast United States; hub 1 for African destinations
DTW - Hub for domestic passengers traveling across the Mississippi River; premier international hub for flights to/from Asia, esp. for international to domestic connections. Serves domestic business travelers doing business in the midwest, particularly OH. Competes with UA/CO for Asian traffic connecting to/from other cities in the US east of the Mississippi River.
MSP - Serves domestic business travelers doing business in MN; secondary hub for domestic passengers traveling across the Mississippi River.
MEM - Dead
CVG - Dead
LAX - Is this even a hub?
SEA - Is this even a hub?
JFK - O&D markets, particularly to/from Europe, including second tier cities; compete with UA/CO for NYC-based traffic; hub 2 for African destinations
ATL - Serve domestic business travelers doing business in the Atlanta area; hub for passengers traveling to/from the southeast United States; hub 1 for African destinations
DTW - Hub for domestic passengers traveling across the Mississippi River; premier international hub for flights to/from Asia, esp. for international to domestic connections. Serves domestic business travelers doing business in the midwest, particularly OH. Competes with UA/CO for Asian traffic connecting to/from other cities in the US east of the Mississippi River.
MSP - Serves domestic business travelers doing business in MN; secondary hub for domestic passengers traveling across the Mississippi River.
MEM - Dead
CVG - Dead
LAX - Is this even a hub?
SEA - Is this even a hub?
#3
Join Date: May 2010
Location: PDX
Programs: AS MVPG, DL DM
Posts: 219
SEA: Connects to AS... but you might have to pay for checked bags on codeshares
SLC: Up and coming western hub, nicely avoids letting people rack up extra miles by routing through one of the coastal hubs
SLC: Up and coming western hub, nicely avoids letting people rack up extra miles by routing through one of the coastal hubs
#5
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: HNL
Programs: DL PM/1MM, BW DE (lifetime), HH DE, Marriott PE (lifetime), National Emerald Executive
Posts: 7,193
ATL: hub for most European and domestic flights; usually if you want to fly DL to anywhere, esp. given recent flight cancelations out of MSP and DTW, you have to fly through ATL
#7
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Carolina
Programs: HH Gold
Posts: 164
SEA is certainly not a DL hub, but defiantly a good connecting point to Asia, with tons of connections to AS flights. DL also seems to still have alot of loyal FF's from the days of the NW focus city at SEA.
#8
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Coralville, IA
Programs: DL:Diamond, HH:Diamond
Posts: 331
aren't you forgetting
In my process of getting Deltified, I'm trying to understand DL's approaches to its (numerous) USA hubs. What's your take / interpretation; where do I get it wrong?
JFK - O&D markets, particularly to/from Europe, including second tier cities; compete with UA/CO for NYC-based traffic; hub 2 for African destinations
ATL - Serve domestic business travelers doing business in the Atlanta area; hub for passengers traveling to/from the southeast United States; hub 1 for African destinations
DTW - Hub for domestic passengers traveling across the Mississippi River; premier international hub for flights to/from Asia, esp. for international to domestic connections. Serves domestic business travelers doing business in the midwest, particularly OH. Competes with UA/CO for Asian traffic connecting to/from other cities in the US east of the Mississippi River.
MSP - Serves domestic business travelers doing business in MN; secondary hub for domestic passengers traveling across the Mississippi River.
MEM - Dead
CVG - Dead
LAX - Is this even a hub?
SEA - Is this even a hub?
JFK - O&D markets, particularly to/from Europe, including second tier cities; compete with UA/CO for NYC-based traffic; hub 2 for African destinations
ATL - Serve domestic business travelers doing business in the Atlanta area; hub for passengers traveling to/from the southeast United States; hub 1 for African destinations
DTW - Hub for domestic passengers traveling across the Mississippi River; premier international hub for flights to/from Asia, esp. for international to domestic connections. Serves domestic business travelers doing business in the midwest, particularly OH. Competes with UA/CO for Asian traffic connecting to/from other cities in the US east of the Mississippi River.
MSP - Serves domestic business travelers doing business in MN; secondary hub for domestic passengers traveling across the Mississippi River.
MEM - Dead
CVG - Dead
LAX - Is this even a hub?
SEA - Is this even a hub?
aren't you forgetting dtw and msp?
from my home airports of WAS, the hub stops are:
jfk
atl
mem
msp
dtw
slc
#9
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 1,593
In my process of getting Deltified, I'm trying to understand DL's approaches to its (numerous) USA hubs. What's your take / interpretation; where do I get it wrong?
JFK - O&D markets, particularly to/from Europe, including second tier cities; compete with UA/CO for NYC-based traffic; hub 2 for African destinations
JFK has ~200 flights a day, as you said it is mostly high O/D markets with must feeds for Europe. T2/3 suck....id stay away from here.
ATL - Serve domestic business travelers doing business in the Atlanta area; hub for passengers traveling to/from the southeast United States; hub 1 for African destinationsby far the largest Delta hub, ~1000 flights a day. Big to Europe/Africa also has flights to TLV/DXB/NRT and soon PVG. Some people hate it, some people like it, but its one of the netter airports IMO. You can pretty much hit anywhere you wanna go from here. Just a note, if the WX goes to hell....run run as fast as you can
DTW - Hub for domestic passengers traveling across the Mississippi River; premier international hub for flights to/from Asia, esp. for international to domestic connections. Serves domestic business travelers doing business in the midwest, particularly OH. Competes with UA/CO for Asian traffic connecting to/from other cities in the US east of the Mississippi River.around ~600 flights, great to Asia, has LHR and FRA flights and by far the best terminal in the system.
MSP - Serves domestic business travelers doing business in MN; secondary hub for domestic passengers traveling across the Mississippi River. good hub to the midwest/west, around ~450 flights. CDG/LHR/NRT/AMS flights, nice terminal, but it is the hub everyone wants to cry about.
MEM - Dead ~250 flights
CVG - Dead ~175 flights
LAX - Is this even a hub? No, LAX/BOS/MCO/DCA/SEA are Focus citys, LAX being the largest of the group. Flights to PHX/LAS/SFO/SAN on the west side of the world, MCO/MSY/TPA/FLL/IND/CMH and RDU(seasonal) on the other. (all hubs have flights) NRT/HND/SYD/GDL/CUN/PVR/GUA plus the only flights to OGG/KOA and LIH. is around ~80 flights a day. T5 is nice, TSA can be a cluster though, T6 kinda sucks but DL only have 3 gates over there. LAX is up ~30% this year...by far the most growth in the system.
SEA - Is this even a hub? Also would be a FC, has NRT/HNL/PEK/KIX flights plus hubs.
JFK - O&D markets, particularly to/from Europe, including second tier cities; compete with UA/CO for NYC-based traffic; hub 2 for African destinations
JFK has ~200 flights a day, as you said it is mostly high O/D markets with must feeds for Europe. T2/3 suck....id stay away from here.
ATL - Serve domestic business travelers doing business in the Atlanta area; hub for passengers traveling to/from the southeast United States; hub 1 for African destinationsby far the largest Delta hub, ~1000 flights a day. Big to Europe/Africa also has flights to TLV/DXB/NRT and soon PVG. Some people hate it, some people like it, but its one of the netter airports IMO. You can pretty much hit anywhere you wanna go from here. Just a note, if the WX goes to hell....run run as fast as you can
DTW - Hub for domestic passengers traveling across the Mississippi River; premier international hub for flights to/from Asia, esp. for international to domestic connections. Serves domestic business travelers doing business in the midwest, particularly OH. Competes with UA/CO for Asian traffic connecting to/from other cities in the US east of the Mississippi River.around ~600 flights, great to Asia, has LHR and FRA flights and by far the best terminal in the system.
MSP - Serves domestic business travelers doing business in MN; secondary hub for domestic passengers traveling across the Mississippi River. good hub to the midwest/west, around ~450 flights. CDG/LHR/NRT/AMS flights, nice terminal, but it is the hub everyone wants to cry about.
MEM - Dead ~250 flights
CVG - Dead ~175 flights
LAX - Is this even a hub? No, LAX/BOS/MCO/DCA/SEA are Focus citys, LAX being the largest of the group. Flights to PHX/LAS/SFO/SAN on the west side of the world, MCO/MSY/TPA/FLL/IND/CMH and RDU(seasonal) on the other. (all hubs have flights) NRT/HND/SYD/GDL/CUN/PVR/GUA plus the only flights to OGG/KOA and LIH. is around ~80 flights a day. T5 is nice, TSA can be a cluster though, T6 kinda sucks but DL only have 3 gates over there. LAX is up ~30% this year...by far the most growth in the system.
SEA - Is this even a hub? Also would be a FC, has NRT/HNL/PEK/KIX flights plus hubs.
LGA- has ~175 flights, mostly high O/D markets. If the slot swap with US gets done it will go to ~250-300 flights.
SLC-Delta's DEN. ~350 flights but has alot of RJs, but getting better, back to around 90 Mainline flights.
#11
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: South Carolina
Programs: Delta FO
Posts: 313
I see delta using their many hubs to price discriminate between non-stop and one-stop flights.
More often than not the one-stop (eg ATL-MSP-SFO) is priced lower than the non-stop (eg. ATL-SFO).
This pricing scheme is even more pronounced on TPAC and TATL routings.
More often than not the one-stop (eg ATL-MSP-SFO) is priced lower than the non-stop (eg. ATL-SFO).
This pricing scheme is even more pronounced on TPAC and TATL routings.
#12
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Nashville
Programs: DL DM 3 MM AA PLAT HH Lifetime Diamond Marriott Plat AMB lifetime titanium Hertz PC
Posts: 6,187
Overall I am more confused then ever with the DL hub/focus city situation. The long term vision seems to change often. CVG is gone, not sure what is going on with SEA, LAX, SLC, MEM & BOS. Are they building some of these places up, or are they pulling out.
#13
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Seattle, WA
Programs: DL Diamond 1.7MM, Starlux Insighter, Bonvoy Titanium, Hilton Gold, Hertz PC
Posts: 3,943
SEA is definitely a focus city being built up into an LAX-style international gateway. If you're wondering if it's building up or winding down, you need only hang out at the checkin counter around 10AM to see it's on the uptick - the crowds are getting to be epic from all the new international flying Delta is doing.
Other evidence of Delta's investment in SEA is the Sky Club - construction has started on a new one that's twice the size. Rumor is we may also get a second daily instance at some point for either SEA-NRT or SEA-AMS... not sure how true that is but it is a rumor floating around.
While I think DL looks at Seattle primarily as an Asia gateway, don't underestimate the value of the AS symbiotic relationship. AS provides feed for the international flying and Delta's domestic hubs; DL provides feed to Washington regional destinations, California and Alaska. Clownfish and anemone.
Other evidence of Delta's investment in SEA is the Sky Club - construction has started on a new one that's twice the size. Rumor is we may also get a second daily instance at some point for either SEA-NRT or SEA-AMS... not sure how true that is but it is a rumor floating around.
While I think DL looks at Seattle primarily as an Asia gateway, don't underestimate the value of the AS symbiotic relationship. AS provides feed for the international flying and Delta's domestic hubs; DL provides feed to Washington regional destinations, California and Alaska. Clownfish and anemone.
#14
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: MKE
Programs: BA Gold, DL PM, Hilton Gold
Posts: 2,241
SEA will be built up with metal from AS (code shares) and MEM (which will become ATK overflow). CVG is going to ride into a dignified sunset of retirement.
LGA, JFK -- only going to get bigger.
ATL -- Needs to re-assess strategy and prices once WN/Air Tran merger finishes. there is going to be serious competition.
MSP -- Good mid west hub, esp if snow in DTW. Great gateway to Europe- WEstern US and WEstern US to Asia.
Dave
LGA, JFK -- only going to get bigger.
ATL -- Needs to re-assess strategy and prices once WN/Air Tran merger finishes. there is going to be serious competition.
MSP -- Good mid west hub, esp if snow in DTW. Great gateway to Europe- WEstern US and WEstern US to Asia.
Dave