Beware of Passport Expirations!
Nov 25, 2011, 12:21 am
#31
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Canada
Programs: AS, DL, UA, Hyatt, SPG
Posts: 2,574
No, next time go to the consulate and demand that they show you this "REGULATION", I have actually posted it and the link from the DoS handbook somewhere on FT. Then do one or many of the following, demand to speak to a Vice Consul, the next person they send you will NOT be a VICE CONSUL. Ask that person for the pages, if they so no, then tell them they are wasting your time and demand a Vice Consul again. When the vice consul arrives inform him or her that the previous two employees that you spoke with have lied to your face and were/are limiting your rights as a US citizen to travel as they are seemingly making up rules which do not exist in their handbook, and that if it is not resolved immediately you will have no choice but to notify State, and your Senator.
At this point one of three things will happen. In 90% of cases, he/she will hee and haw for a minute and then agree as a "one time thing" to give you another set of pages.
He/she will start to tell you that your passport looks worn/damaged/whatever, even if it is in pristine shape and try to make you get a new one (one line they like to use is "its quite worn, you probably are going to have problems in the future using it" - funny....generaly spoken by a person who travels less in a decade than I do in a month!). The best reply to that is, "I would be happy to do so if you lend me one of your people to go stand in line and get me and pay for a new, Brazilian, Russian, Chinese, Zimbabwean, whatever visa!" At which point they will fold and give you the pages.
Or they will get very adamant and bureaucratic and try to pull rank, "It is ultimately my decision, and I don't want to do it!" (rarity) At which point you say that you would like to meet with the consul immediately and will not leave, also ask for your cell phone to be brought to you from the Marines so you can call Washington, they will then generally agree.
The bottom line to all this is that they are extremely lazy, and for a variety of reasons do not want to keep adding pages as it takes them more and more time each time that you add additional sets (because of the info they are gathering on you, but that is another story!!)
At this point one of three things will happen. In 90% of cases, he/she will hee and haw for a minute and then agree as a "one time thing" to give you another set of pages.
He/she will start to tell you that your passport looks worn/damaged/whatever, even if it is in pristine shape and try to make you get a new one (one line they like to use is "its quite worn, you probably are going to have problems in the future using it" - funny....generaly spoken by a person who travels less in a decade than I do in a month!). The best reply to that is, "I would be happy to do so if you lend me one of your people to go stand in line and get me and pay for a new, Brazilian, Russian, Chinese, Zimbabwean, whatever visa!" At which point they will fold and give you the pages.
Or they will get very adamant and bureaucratic and try to pull rank, "It is ultimately my decision, and I don't want to do it!" (rarity) At which point you say that you would like to meet with the consul immediately and will not leave, also ask for your cell phone to be brought to you from the Marines so you can call Washington, they will then generally agree.
The bottom line to all this is that they are extremely lazy, and for a variety of reasons do not want to keep adding pages as it takes them more and more time each time that you add additional sets (because of the info they are gathering on you, but that is another story!!)
Can you get two passports in the US, would seem to resolve this issue (keep visas in one, primarily use the other). I know FA's in the US can do this.
Nov 25, 2011, 12:32 am
#34
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: I'm not sure myself..
Programs: AA Plat, DL Silver, MR Plat, nobody everywhere else
Posts: 281
Yes you can, and in fact I have two, though the second is limited validity (it's good for much less than the standard 10 years)...glad you posted that question as it reminds me I need to renew my other passport. I try to keep my visas and most stamps in my primary passport and only use the alternate for those times when the other is out for a new visa and I need to go somewhere. Makes it easier, at least for me..
Nov 25, 2011, 12:47 am
#35
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Houston, TX, USA
Programs: UA 1K, AA Lifetime Platinum, DL Platinum, Honors Diamond, Bonvoy Titanium, Hertz Platinum
Posts: 7,969
A couple of asides: I was once admitted to France at CDG with literally just a wave-through at the immigration desk, without them even opening the passport. As such, I had no Schengen entry stamp nor entry into the Schengen immigration computers, which caused a very brief delay at FRA upon departure.
Also, just last month I traveled to a country that has the requirement of "Passport must be valid upon arrival" and was admitted and returned to the US without anyone saying anything, even though my passport expired 4 days after my return and well into the period for which I was admitted.
I don't see anything in this thread where an airline was over-zealous at enforcing some made-up rule: it appears that they were accurately enforcing the actual rule of the destination country. As others have said, this can vary anywhere from "must be valid for 6 months beyond permitted stay" to "must be valid upon admission." As is always the case in such matters, it is the responsibility of the traveler and nobody else to ensure that they have the proper travel documents for their destination.
Nov 25, 2011, 1:24 am
#36
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: SUX
Programs: BA Silver; HHonors Gold; SPG Gold; Points but dirt with everyone else
Posts: 8,050
Ah, good point. I've only taken it to Paris, so I wasn't sure if they swapped out the French Border Police (and seemingly permanent signage) for Belgian on Brussels departures. It makes sense to just delegate it all to the French, since most trains will call at Lille before heading on to Brussels, and for the handful that only pass through France without stopping, it would be silly to have separate Belgian agents at St. Pancras.
Nov 25, 2011, 1:35 am
#37
Suspended
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 22,778
It's a good reminder for every one, but people who travel frequently, as most of us here, already know this. Despite being aware of this, the date of expirt of one's passport can sometimes sneak upon one. I have travelled within 6 months of expiry of my passport to Singapore and Paris. I don't like to be with a passport with very short life left on it, or without a passport. I pay the expedited fee so that I not without a passport for more than a few hours.
Nov 25, 2011, 4:36 am
#38
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Most of the visas which I have in a given ordinary US passport are either expired or are valid even in the weeks, months or years after the passport is cancelled and returned to me.
Nov 25, 2011, 5:11 am
#39
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: NYC
Programs: DL PM, Marriott G, Hilton G
Posts: 1,582
This Happeened To Me. Thank You Belgium.
Three years ago, I was checking in on a Saturday afternoon for a flight to AMS that night at the JFK BE check in area in T2. Agent looked at my passport and said sir, you are not flying to AMS tonight. I was on an M fare using an SWU to get into BE.
The staff was quick to note that Belgium doesn't have this restriction and not only booked me on the later flight, but also put me in BE which back then was inside the 24 hour rule. No additional fees or penalties. Had two large suitcases with me with samples for a trade show at the RAI so I rented a car and drove to AMS instead of taking the train.
If this happens to you, think BRU.
The staff was quick to note that Belgium doesn't have this restriction and not only booked me on the later flight, but also put me in BE which back then was inside the 24 hour rule. No additional fees or penalties. Had two large suitcases with me with samples for a trade show at the RAI so I rented a car and drove to AMS instead of taking the train.
If this happens to you, think BRU.
Nov 25, 2011, 7:30 am
#40
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Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: DCA
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Posts: 50,262
Think Ahead
1. Never let your passport creep past 1 year to expiry. You never know when you may need it, for how long and why. While I suppose there are those who will say that this cuts 10% off the value vs. cost of the passport, in the scheme of things it's not a big deal.
2. Check TIMATIC. It's what the carriers rely on so it's what you ought to rely on. Your situation may not be the next person's, so don't rely on what someone told you happened to their mother-in-law. Your nationality, your country of residence, your embarkation country, your arrival country and any countries you may transit [U]may[U] all impact seemingly minor details which may affect what you do/don't need to travel.
3. If there are any oddities in your situation, print the relevant TIMATIC pages and get the issue resolved with the carrier(s) and your record noted before the day of departure. The gate is a bad place to have an argument about international law. Your case gets decided when the aircraft pushes from the gate with you looking at it doing so.
2. Check TIMATIC. It's what the carriers rely on so it's what you ought to rely on. Your situation may not be the next person's, so don't rely on what someone told you happened to their mother-in-law. Your nationality, your country of residence, your embarkation country, your arrival country and any countries you may transit [U]may[U] all impact seemingly minor details which may affect what you do/don't need to travel.
3. If there are any oddities in your situation, print the relevant TIMATIC pages and get the issue resolved with the carrier(s) and your record noted before the day of departure. The gate is a bad place to have an argument about international law. Your case gets decided when the aircraft pushes from the gate with you looking at it doing so.
Nov 25, 2011, 7:34 am
#41
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: LAX/BOS/HKG/AMS/SFO...hmm, I need a life.
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Nov 25, 2011, 8:03 am
#42
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: SUX
Programs: BA Silver; HHonors Gold; SPG Gold; Points but dirt with everyone else
Posts: 8,050
2. Check TIMATIC. It's what the carriers rely on so it's what you ought to rely on. Your situation may not be the next person's, so don't rely on what someone told you happened to their mother-in-law. Your nationality, your country of residence, your embarkation country, your arrival country and any countries you may transit [U]may[U] all impact seemingly minor details which may affect what you do/don't need to travel.
I do appreciate that DL makes TIMATIC data available to everyone online. Do any other carriers do it? It seems that any time I see a link for passport/visa/transit data around FT, it's to the DL TIMATIC interface.
Nov 25, 2011, 9:36 am
#43
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: NYC
Programs: DL PM, Marriott G, Hilton G
Posts: 1,582
Actually a newer show called ISE (Integrated Systems Europe) which has grown to suck up all but one of the halls at the RAI.
BTW, I know that sometimes FT names can be confusing and before I ever read a post of yours, I picked my name based on my business (Audio Video - hence avflyer).
Sorry about that
BTW, I know that sometimes FT names can be confusing and before I ever read a post of yours, I picked my name based on my business (Audio Video - hence avflyer).
Sorry about that
Nov 25, 2011, 9:47 am
#44
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: LAX/BOS/HKG/AMS/SFO...hmm, I need a life.
Programs: United1K, AA ExPlAAt, DL MM/Gold, Hilton Diamond, Avis First
Posts: 13,316
Actually a newer show called ISE (Integrated Systems Europe) which has grown to suck up all but one of the halls at the RAI.
BTW, I know that sometimes FT names can be confusing and before I ever read a post of yours, I picked my name based on my business (Audio Video - hence avflyer).
Sorry about that
BTW, I know that sometimes FT names can be confusing and before I ever read a post of yours, I picked my name based on my business (Audio Video - hence avflyer).
Sorry about that
Nov 25, 2011, 10:20 am
#45
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Join Date: Jul 2001
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On a US-heavy site focused on airlines, I'm not surprised that DL's link gets circulated more than foreign carriers links to the same sourced information.