View Poll Results: What Do You Think About the Policy Change for Award Re-Deposits and Re-Issues?
I am in favor of it.
111
13.39%
I am opposed to it and intend to be loyal to a different airline frequent flier loyalty program.
413
49.82%
I am opposed to it but will remain loyal to the Delta SkyMiles frequent flier loyalty program.
198
23.88%
I am not affected by it, am neutral about it, do not know, have no opinion or do not care.
107
12.91%
Voters: 829. You may not vote on this poll
Updated: Award Redeposit and Reissue Rule Change
#31
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: CHI/MSP
Programs: Delta Platinum, United Prem Exec
Posts: 1,334
So am I reading this correctly? If I have a last minute trip that I have to go on, there will now be no way to book using SkyMiles, I must pay cash and only cash for it?
And yes, I think it's perfectly reasonable to define a last minute trip as one departing less than 72 hours (3 days) from now. Regardless of whether there is low availability (with Delta I always assume there is none regardless of when I book), we won't be able to book anything using SkyMiles?
Delta sure has some chutzpah. Playing chicken with your customers to see how much you can piss them off before they leave? Nice job, Delta. Even the hardcore apologists are sure to raise an eyebrow to this at a minimum.
And yes, I think it's perfectly reasonable to define a last minute trip as one departing less than 72 hours (3 days) from now. Regardless of whether there is low availability (with Delta I always assume there is none regardless of when I book), we won't be able to book anything using SkyMiles?
Delta sure has some chutzpah. Playing chicken with your customers to see how much you can piss them off before they leave? Nice job, Delta. Even the hardcore apologists are sure to raise an eyebrow to this at a minimum.
#32
Suspended
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: LAX
Programs: DM
Posts: 1,067
I can confirm that this is true.
I dont think it is a bad move at all though. It has always ticked me off that people buy mileage tickets they never intend on using. It takes away the space that others would love to book. I think DL should limit the number of holds people can do as well. This new policy should hopefully make lower level award seats easier to find and also allow for more SDC options since people will have to cancel ahead of time. As a PM this change won't effect me since I didn't abuse the redeposits but I'm sure many will ..... and moan about it. I'm sure DL will still redeposit awards if u have a valid reason or emergency but for those that abuse the system and screw the rest....they will now be out of luck.
Another change that I have heard is taking place is mileage upgrades. They will have the 72 hr policy as well. This policy will hurt those that have been buying K fares and upgrading with miles only to cancel without penalty and get their complimentary upgrade. Ironically though it won't impact PMs or DMs too much if the upgrade windows clear at 5 days like they do on many routes. Fortunately, SWUs won't have the same policy.
Overall, I think the changes were aimed at the PMs and DMs that have been abusing the system and holding inventory that DL could easily sell and others want. For the mass majority this will be a welcome change. For the self-centered that has been booking award tix not intending to use them and holding space, it will be tough. If people don't like the change, I guess they can go elsewhere but many airlines charge their highest elites redeposit fees on award tickets. DL is just trying to fill the empty seats they have due to the award tickets that are never cancelled or flown until right before the flight (or in many cases right after the flight). Flame me if you want but I think this is actually not a bad change at all for the skymiles program. 95% will like this change since it ****should**** open up more inventory to book low level tickets and SDC. Thankfully they still will allow PMs and DMs to redeposit for free 72hrs in advance which to me seems fair. I'm sure some bean counter did the math and I'm sure DL has lost millions due to empty seats on award tix never flown (and PMs and DMs are the biggest perpetrators since there was no penalty).
I dont think it is a bad move at all though. It has always ticked me off that people buy mileage tickets they never intend on using. It takes away the space that others would love to book. I think DL should limit the number of holds people can do as well. This new policy should hopefully make lower level award seats easier to find and also allow for more SDC options since people will have to cancel ahead of time. As a PM this change won't effect me since I didn't abuse the redeposits but I'm sure many will ..... and moan about it. I'm sure DL will still redeposit awards if u have a valid reason or emergency but for those that abuse the system and screw the rest....they will now be out of luck.
Another change that I have heard is taking place is mileage upgrades. They will have the 72 hr policy as well. This policy will hurt those that have been buying K fares and upgrading with miles only to cancel without penalty and get their complimentary upgrade. Ironically though it won't impact PMs or DMs too much if the upgrade windows clear at 5 days like they do on many routes. Fortunately, SWUs won't have the same policy.
Overall, I think the changes were aimed at the PMs and DMs that have been abusing the system and holding inventory that DL could easily sell and others want. For the mass majority this will be a welcome change. For the self-centered that has been booking award tix not intending to use them and holding space, it will be tough. If people don't like the change, I guess they can go elsewhere but many airlines charge their highest elites redeposit fees on award tickets. DL is just trying to fill the empty seats they have due to the award tickets that are never cancelled or flown until right before the flight (or in many cases right after the flight). Flame me if you want but I think this is actually not a bad change at all for the skymiles program. 95% will like this change since it ****should**** open up more inventory to book low level tickets and SDC. Thankfully they still will allow PMs and DMs to redeposit for free 72hrs in advance which to me seems fair. I'm sure some bean counter did the math and I'm sure DL has lost millions due to empty seats on award tix never flown (and PMs and DMs are the biggest perpetrators since there was no penalty).
#33
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: LAX/BOS/HKG/AMS/SFO...hmm, I need a life.
Programs: United1K, AA ExPlAAt, DL MM/Gold, Hilton Diamond, Avis First
Posts: 13,316
Big on this. Once the details on the redeposit rule were sorted, I had no problem with them. However, finding award inventory at the low level in advance can be a problem. If DL isn't going to make that inventory available in advance, then it's only fair to allow members to make changes to grab the low mileage inventory at the last minute.
I, for one, would like a detailed analysis of how DL's coming up with "more than 1,000,000 award seats that were going unused at the 72 hour mark prior to departure". If the flight hasn't departed yet, clearly the seat hasn't been used yet. Or is the claim that there are 1,000,000 award seats booked at the 72 hour mark that get changed, cancelled, or fly empty without a change/cancellation? Seems like it might have been fair to give the new policy six months to see what its impact is before deciding to require all changes to take place 72 hours in advance.
Again to DL for this change.
I, for one, would like a detailed analysis of how DL's coming up with "more than 1,000,000 award seats that were going unused at the 72 hour mark prior to departure". If the flight hasn't departed yet, clearly the seat hasn't been used yet. Or is the claim that there are 1,000,000 award seats booked at the 72 hour mark that get changed, cancelled, or fly empty without a change/cancellation? Seems like it might have been fair to give the new policy six months to see what its impact is before deciding to require all changes to take place 72 hours in advance.
Again to DL for this change.
^^^^^^^
Delta is DRIVING THIS BEHAVIOUR by releasing "Low" very close in and then BLAMING DM's?!?!?!
#34
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Likely being followed...
Programs: DYKWIA Extraordinaire. TrollSlayer Mega Diamond. [insert esoteric sounding status level(s) here]
Posts: 5,240
I'm going to wait for the full details to come out, but I don't think most PMs/DMs were booking without the intention to fly. They were booking at a mileage level they could live with and then snapping up a low level seat when it came available close to departure. Given DL's resistance to releasing low level seats in advance, this is a completely legitimate practice in my book.
#35
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 198
I suppose this will alienate a lot of small businesses who use award travel for business purposes. WTG Delta. Also, how many of those 1,000,000 seats were rebooked as award tickets at low mileage rates? How much of this is about getting additional skymiles off the books vs. whether a seat flies empty?
Hell, due to the magnitude of IRROPS, other than the 10PM ATL-DCA flight, I haven't been on a flight in months with an empty seat.
Hell, due to the magnitude of IRROPS, other than the 10PM ATL-DCA flight, I haven't been on a flight in months with an empty seat.
#36
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: LAX/BOS/HKG/AMS/SFO...hmm, I need a life.
Programs: United1K, AA ExPlAAt, DL MM/Gold, Hilton Diamond, Avis First
Posts: 13,316
#37
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Likely being followed...
Programs: DYKWIA Extraordinaire. TrollSlayer Mega Diamond. [insert esoteric sounding status level(s) here]
Posts: 5,240
You are misunderstanding. Existing reservations cannot be changed within 72 hours of departure or a forfeiture of miles will happen. You can ticket within 72 hours, no penalty or close in ticketing.
#38
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: MCI
Programs: DL PM; AA EXP
Posts: 215
This is the huge issue--I don't mind 72 hour change/cancellation so much, but my wife and I both have jobs that result in us often not knowing we can "get away" until the last minute. At least being able to book last minute awards (w/o extra fee) is a huge DM perk and seems to me it's a win-win for everyone---we often take last minute trips w/o a specific destination in mind--if DL has empty seats to somewhere and is offering low award seats, we'll try a new place!
#39
Join Date: Oct 2007
Programs: Now just a lowly DL PM/1MM. This industry needs some competition. It's just not enjoyable anymore.
Posts: 3,543
This is my question as well. I was under the impression from another thread that you had to book new award travel at least 72 hours out. Is this not the case?
#40
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Likely being followed...
Programs: DYKWIA Extraordinaire. TrollSlayer Mega Diamond. [insert esoteric sounding status level(s) here]
Posts: 5,240
Doesn't it sound like something Delta would say?
#41
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: LAX/BOS/HKG/AMS/SFO...hmm, I need a life.
Programs: United1K, AA ExPlAAt, DL MM/Gold, Hilton Diamond, Avis First
Posts: 13,316
For the last minute dinner trip yes,
But what about the ticket you booked at "High" that is now at "Low" within 72 hours? So if I find low inside 72 hours I need to forfeit the old ticket right?
#43
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: SUX
Programs: BA Silver; HHonors Gold; SPG Gold; Points but dirt with everyone else
Posts: 8,050
#44
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: MN
Programs: Lots of programs, dirt on all of them!
Posts: 11,938
No mile redeposit for no-shows was fine with me, even though many didn't agree.
But this new policy is absurd. Often low level awards become available within 72 hours of departure. In fact just two months ago the morning of departure I was able to change a ticket to a more favorable routing because an award seat opened up. Basically a change of any kind within 72 hours is absolutely not possible.
The 1,000,000 award seats going unused at the 72 hour mark is fuzzy math. Over which time period? One could argue that EVERY award seat is going unused at the 72 hour mark. Who would "use" an award seat 3 days before they want to use it?
But this new policy is absurd. Often low level awards become available within 72 hours of departure. In fact just two months ago the morning of departure I was able to change a ticket to a more favorable routing because an award seat opened up. Basically a change of any kind within 72 hours is absolutely not possible.
The 1,000,000 award seats going unused at the 72 hour mark is fuzzy math. Over which time period? One could argue that EVERY award seat is going unused at the 72 hour mark. Who would "use" an award seat 3 days before they want to use it?