I Am Leaving Delta Air Lines. Goodbye! Bye Bye! Farewell!
#46
Original Member
Join Date: May 1998
Location: los angeles
Programs: Hyatt Courtesy card. Delta 2MM Diamond. AA platinum pro
Posts: 1,898
I am leaving also for AA. I still have a few flights left from before I decided, but next year, after 2.1 +million miles.
I feel that AA tries to improve- extra space in coach, etc, while DL keeps trying to take away.
I believe Delta believes it has too many elites {suggested by RussAtl}
Just as it is hard to leave now, it will be hard to come back when things start to get worse for DL.
I feel that AA tries to improve- extra space in coach, etc, while DL keeps trying to take away.
I believe Delta believes it has too many elites {suggested by RussAtl}
Just as it is hard to leave now, it will be hard to come back when things start to get worse for DL.
#47
Join Date: Oct 2000
Posts: 1,960
As a GM for 5 years, I am leaving Delta for United. I have faxed my mileage statements to UA and have asked for a comp to Exec Prem. If they turn me down, then I'll have to earn it.
Delta's decision to eliminate SWUs has a major impact on my travel patterns. If the impetus for Delta's SWU decision is too many paxs in Bizelite with upgrades, and their solution is to offend their most loyal customers who pay higher Y, B and M fares for the chance to get upgraded, it is time for me to seriously re-evaluate my upgrade strategy. During the interim, until the changes go into effect, based on numerous posts in different threads, it appears that a deliberate effort is being made to so-call manufacture a shortage of seats in Bizelite, e.g. denying upgrade confirmation to elites using SWUs until the last possible moment. I mean a PM using SWUs being placed on a waitlist when two weeks out more than half of Bizelite is empty is totally ridiculous.
They key is who will compete for those seats in 2001. Full-fare business passengers, of course. Those individuals who complained to Delta that they can't get a seat at full fare. Deadheading crew members and relief pilots who have confirmed Bizelite seats in their contracts. The latter might have special cabins, again pursuant to their contract. Non-rev employees and dependents who have friends at the gate. Delta's corporate brass, their kids and their friends. Delta's super-priority VIPs. Finally, we come to the Medallion members: PMs and their traveling companions.
I'm afraid that given that kind of competition, GMs and SMs, with 40 or 50K are really out of luck after paying the higher "upgradeable" fare for a chance to upgrade.
By switching to an airline with three classes, my chances of an upgrade to business should be better, at least in theory. Full-fare business passengers will be competing for an upgrade to first, which should vacate an occupied seat. Crew members and deadheads would probably have first class seats written into their contracts. Non-revs with friends at the gate, VIPs and corporate brass wouldn't be caught dead in business, if first were available. So now that leaves me, a mid-tier elite with only one group to compete with: top-tier elites.
Another problem is SkyTeam. KE has excellent cabin service but their safety record is dismal. Most, if not all, of KE's "mishaps" have been due to pilot error. With regard to AF, every month there is a national strike of some sort. Once every two months there is a strike in the transportation industry. Wildcat strikes are a national pastime. Based on personal experience, AF service and the general attitude of its employees are lousy. Delta touts CDG as the only major European airport capable of increased capacity. Why, then, is Paris considering building another airport? I don't know much about AM, but its route system doesn't exactly help me much.
I do intend to maintain SM status until I'm able to burn up all of my old frequent flyer miles. 25K FF miles for a free Medallion Award FC ticket is about the best frequent flyer deal in the industry. I better hurry, though. Me thinks this might be the next item on Delta's hit list, because "customers requested it."
Delta's decision to eliminate SWUs has a major impact on my travel patterns. If the impetus for Delta's SWU decision is too many paxs in Bizelite with upgrades, and their solution is to offend their most loyal customers who pay higher Y, B and M fares for the chance to get upgraded, it is time for me to seriously re-evaluate my upgrade strategy. During the interim, until the changes go into effect, based on numerous posts in different threads, it appears that a deliberate effort is being made to so-call manufacture a shortage of seats in Bizelite, e.g. denying upgrade confirmation to elites using SWUs until the last possible moment. I mean a PM using SWUs being placed on a waitlist when two weeks out more than half of Bizelite is empty is totally ridiculous.
They key is who will compete for those seats in 2001. Full-fare business passengers, of course. Those individuals who complained to Delta that they can't get a seat at full fare. Deadheading crew members and relief pilots who have confirmed Bizelite seats in their contracts. The latter might have special cabins, again pursuant to their contract. Non-rev employees and dependents who have friends at the gate. Delta's corporate brass, their kids and their friends. Delta's super-priority VIPs. Finally, we come to the Medallion members: PMs and their traveling companions.
I'm afraid that given that kind of competition, GMs and SMs, with 40 or 50K are really out of luck after paying the higher "upgradeable" fare for a chance to upgrade.
By switching to an airline with three classes, my chances of an upgrade to business should be better, at least in theory. Full-fare business passengers will be competing for an upgrade to first, which should vacate an occupied seat. Crew members and deadheads would probably have first class seats written into their contracts. Non-revs with friends at the gate, VIPs and corporate brass wouldn't be caught dead in business, if first were available. So now that leaves me, a mid-tier elite with only one group to compete with: top-tier elites.
Another problem is SkyTeam. KE has excellent cabin service but their safety record is dismal. Most, if not all, of KE's "mishaps" have been due to pilot error. With regard to AF, every month there is a national strike of some sort. Once every two months there is a strike in the transportation industry. Wildcat strikes are a national pastime. Based on personal experience, AF service and the general attitude of its employees are lousy. Delta touts CDG as the only major European airport capable of increased capacity. Why, then, is Paris considering building another airport? I don't know much about AM, but its route system doesn't exactly help me much.
I do intend to maintain SM status until I'm able to burn up all of my old frequent flyer miles. 25K FF miles for a free Medallion Award FC ticket is about the best frequent flyer deal in the industry. I better hurry, though. Me thinks this might be the next item on Delta's hit list, because "customers requested it."
#48
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Orlando * AirTran #1FF * Delta GM * United Premier
Posts: 18
Originally posted by AdamLangley:
I finally made the decision to LEAVE Delta due to this entire upgrade fiasco. My letter to Leo will go out tomorrow. Although I will miss DL (old habits are hard to break), leaving feels a bit liberating! Hehehe!
Why did I leave? Basically because of the L and U class upgrade restrictions. I don't do that much int'l travel on DL (49,000 int'l miles on UA last year though) so the SWUs don't mean too much to me. Mileage accumulation isn't important to me either. But, in the entire time I was Silver Medallion (I'm now Gold) I was able to upgrade exactly 2 (TWO!!!) flights. I have more segment upgrades than I will ever use... because I can never use them! I'll keep them on the rare occasion that I am forced to fly DL again.
Living in ATL, it will take a while to get used to the limited number of non-stop flights on UA, but I'll just get real familiar with ORD and IAD. Besides, I should be kicking myself... if I had flown exclusively on UA this year, I would be 1K. Oh well, maybe next year.
It's a shame that Ron Allen and Leo Mullin have destroyed a great airline. I used to work at Delta, so I know first hand that the customer is the LAST thing on any DL executive's mind.
Lots of people on this board have threatened to leave DL. Is anyone actually going to do it? Prehaps those of us who are leaving can pop back over to this board from time to time to let everyone else know how life is going without DL!
I finally made the decision to LEAVE Delta due to this entire upgrade fiasco. My letter to Leo will go out tomorrow. Although I will miss DL (old habits are hard to break), leaving feels a bit liberating! Hehehe!
Why did I leave? Basically because of the L and U class upgrade restrictions. I don't do that much int'l travel on DL (49,000 int'l miles on UA last year though) so the SWUs don't mean too much to me. Mileage accumulation isn't important to me either. But, in the entire time I was Silver Medallion (I'm now Gold) I was able to upgrade exactly 2 (TWO!!!) flights. I have more segment upgrades than I will ever use... because I can never use them! I'll keep them on the rare occasion that I am forced to fly DL again.
Living in ATL, it will take a while to get used to the limited number of non-stop flights on UA, but I'll just get real familiar with ORD and IAD. Besides, I should be kicking myself... if I had flown exclusively on UA this year, I would be 1K. Oh well, maybe next year.
It's a shame that Ron Allen and Leo Mullin have destroyed a great airline. I used to work at Delta, so I know first hand that the customer is the LAST thing on any DL executive's mind.
Lots of people on this board have threatened to leave DL. Is anyone actually going to do it? Prehaps those of us who are leaving can pop back over to this board from time to time to let everyone else know how life is going without DL!
To top it off, if you live in ATL they will PURCHASE a ticket for you on any other airline in the US for two of their free tickets (3 in business and 6 in coach = free paid ticket on other airlines). TO TOP THAT OFF YOU GET MILES ON THE FREE TICKETS ON OTHER AIRLINES.
You can upgrade to business class for $25 regardless of your ticket fare. (but if you upgrade this way you get credit for being in coach just like on DL).
It's an unbeatable deal and I've gotten over 90 free flights thus far in the past two years.
Just my two cents on how to get a way from Delta. AirTran flies the new 717 and with 116 people and a 2 / 3 configuration meaning very few middle seats. They load / unload in no time. That beats those DL L-1011's any day . . .
#50
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Napa, California - DL demoted to xx, AF+ Rouge, FB Platinum
Programs: Air France, Delta
Posts: 511
Looking at what the other major airlines can offer, I just don't see that they are better than DL?
My friends here in the SFO area all complain about UA, and think I had it made with DL!
If you are only flying domestic, I think that Southwest can be a good alternative - you can save a lot of money.
I am also unhappy about loosing the SWU, too few flights in the West and the loss of SR as a partner. But I feel I have been treated well by DL, and I do not see a better alternative out there.
Have a good flight
My friends here in the SFO area all complain about UA, and think I had it made with DL!
If you are only flying domestic, I think that Southwest can be a good alternative - you can save a lot of money.
I am also unhappy about loosing the SWU, too few flights in the West and the loss of SR as a partner. But I feel I have been treated well by DL, and I do not see a better alternative out there.
Have a good flight
#51
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Orlando * AirTran #1FF * Delta GM * United Premier
Posts: 18
Originally posted by The Dog:
You want a medal or something?
You want a medal or something?
#52
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Atlanta, Georgia USA
Posts: 50
Originally posted by The Dog:
You want a medal or something?
You want a medal or something?
I appreciated the input that jleader gave us. I never considered AirTran. They don't meet my needs with their route structure, but I'm glad to know the alternative is attractive for some folks.
#53
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 386
I applaud you for voting with your pocket book. Make sure you send DL a copy of your statement and your new UA boarding passes as proof that you left.
I'm curious why you think the "grass is greener" at UA? No matter how bad DL is, UA is usually worse.
I think AA and CO are two alternatives that still want to embrace FF's.
I'm curious why you think the "grass is greener" at UA? No matter how bad DL is, UA is usually worse.
I think AA and CO are two alternatives that still want to embrace FF's.
#54
Join Date: Oct 2000
Posts: 1,960
I think for most of us, notwithstanding our frustration with Delta or any other carrier for that matter, where we live and our flying patterns pretty much dictate which airline we will use. My hub, HNL, is served primarily by UA. Over the years, I have made a conscious effort to use DL despite all the connections. To Europe: HNL-LAX, LAX-ATL or JFK and then the transatlantic hop. Although stopovers on both the west and east coasts along the way was somewhat cumbersome, an SWU upgrade all the way made it bearable. With UA I can fly to LAX or SFO and then non-stop to Europe, thereby avoiding the east coast altogether.
To Japan, I would have to leave a day early then fly to LAX to get to NRT, which I have done out of loyalty to Delta, the mileage and, of course, confirmed SWUs to Bizelite. With KE, I would have to transit SEL. UA has non-stops from HNL.
On business trips to the east, HNL-ATL or DFW and then to DCA or LGA was excellent - but it appears they are going to cancel these non-stops because of a labor dispute.
CO has only two classes, same as Delta's, so competition for upgrades will likewise be fierce for the same reasons. AA is pretty good, but HNL is not a major AA hub and flights to NRT would have to be code-shares with JL with no upgrade options.
Delta, in my opinion, had the best frequent flyer program in the country, bar none. The transformation from top of the heap to on par with the rest of the majors is truly regrettable. The majority of people that I have met over the years who work for Delta are wonderful. They used to go out of their way to help you, whether it be fee waivers or putting you on hold because the 72-hour clock for upgrades doesn't start for another three minutes. Now it's all business. I understand. That's my attitude now.
Delta's Bizelite seat clearly outdistances the competition. But I would much prefer a decent chance at upgrading to a less comfortable UA business seat than DL's coach seats because my GM status wouldn't even get me a spot on the waitlist for an upgrade.
To Japan, I would have to leave a day early then fly to LAX to get to NRT, which I have done out of loyalty to Delta, the mileage and, of course, confirmed SWUs to Bizelite. With KE, I would have to transit SEL. UA has non-stops from HNL.
On business trips to the east, HNL-ATL or DFW and then to DCA or LGA was excellent - but it appears they are going to cancel these non-stops because of a labor dispute.
CO has only two classes, same as Delta's, so competition for upgrades will likewise be fierce for the same reasons. AA is pretty good, but HNL is not a major AA hub and flights to NRT would have to be code-shares with JL with no upgrade options.
Delta, in my opinion, had the best frequent flyer program in the country, bar none. The transformation from top of the heap to on par with the rest of the majors is truly regrettable. The majority of people that I have met over the years who work for Delta are wonderful. They used to go out of their way to help you, whether it be fee waivers or putting you on hold because the 72-hour clock for upgrades doesn't start for another three minutes. Now it's all business. I understand. That's my attitude now.
Delta's Bizelite seat clearly outdistances the competition. But I would much prefer a decent chance at upgrading to a less comfortable UA business seat than DL's coach seats because my GM status wouldn't even get me a spot on the waitlist for an upgrade.
#55
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Los Angeles
Programs: UA Plat 2MM. DL Plat, AS MVP
Posts: 12,751
Pardon my ignorance, but....
Why should DL777 expect a free upgrade without a cert? Actually, come to think of it, doesn't DL offer unlimmited upgrades to PM's anyway?
Why should DL777 expect a free upgrade without a cert? Actually, come to think of it, doesn't DL offer unlimmited upgrades to PM's anyway?
#57
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Atlanta, Georgia USA
Posts: 50
Originally posted by davefr:
I'm curious why you think the "grass is greener" at UA? No matter how bad DL is, UA is usually worse.
I'm curious why you think the "grass is greener" at UA? No matter how bad DL is, UA is usually worse.
The route structure of UA works best for me. And, since I am already a PremExec on UA, It makes since for me to capitalize on that and go for 1K (although the others probably would have comped me).
My experience on UA has been excellent. I flew 49,000 miles in (liesure) international travel this year. Not a single mile was in coach. I just don't seem to have the problems upgrading with UA as I do with DL. And upgrades are the most important benefit to me.
In my opinion, UA just simply treats its Premiers better. The employees seem to genuinely appreciate the business. During a recent cancelled flight to Tokyo, the UA employees at Chicago bent over backwards for me... my experience with DL is that they will rarely lift a finger to help.
I recently booked my first trip on UA since leaving DL. What a great experience - one of the friendliest res agents I've ever dealt with. I was amazed that I could request the upgrade at the time of booking (although it won't clear until 72 hrs before). With DL I have to watch the clock and get to a phone or computer at the stroke of the 72nd hour or else I'm out of luck.
I'm sure UA has its set of problems as well, but my experience has been good. I'll let you know in a year if I'm still this happy.
#58
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Napa, California - DL demoted to xx, AF+ Rouge, FB Platinum
Programs: Air France, Delta
Posts: 511
Over the years, I have made a conscious effort to use DL despite all the connections. To Europe: HNL-LAX, LAX-ATL or JFK and then the transatlantic hop. Although stopovers on both the west and east coasts along the way was somewhat cumbersome, an SWU upgrade all the way made it bearable. With UA I can fly to LAX or SFO and then non-stop to Europe, thereby avoiding the east coast altogether. [/B]
Let's get more West Coast flight to Europe!
By the way what happend to the old Western HNL - London flight?
#59
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Napa, California - DL demoted to xx, AF+ Rouge, FB Platinum
Programs: Air France, Delta
Posts: 511
Originally posted by AdamLangley:
[B] I just don't seem to have the problems upgrading with UA as I do with DL. And upgrades are the most important benefit to me.
[B] I just don't seem to have the problems upgrading with UA as I do with DL. And upgrades are the most important benefit to me.
I never have problems with upgrades from SFO, even though the flights have been full.
#60
Join Date: Oct 2000
Posts: 1,960
When Delta acquired Western, they kept the flights from HNL to SFO and LAX. They also jettisoned the HNL-YVR flight which effectively killed the HNL-YVR-LHR flight. Only a shell remains of Western's route system. Sure SLC is still an important hub, but they have abandoned the old Western route system which connected all the cities up and down the West Coast.
DL had approval to fly HNL-NRT, but unfortunately gave that up. Delta's pathetic presence in Asia is merely symbolic. They are focusing on building up an already substantial presence in Europe and looking towards South America for expansion, which brings back memories of the old Pan Am. What happened to them?
DL had approval to fly HNL-NRT, but unfortunately gave that up. Delta's pathetic presence in Asia is merely symbolic. They are focusing on building up an already substantial presence in Europe and looking towards South America for expansion, which brings back memories of the old Pan Am. What happened to them?