JSFox

Spent nearly 4 hours today going back and forth between DL (CVG & Chisholm) and KL (NL reservations). Learned a lot about seating on KL flights booked on delta.com (and nwa.com). And btw, also had a very pleasant experience with a DL agent in CVG who spent considerable time trying to help me figure this out.

Because of seat assignment problems with delta's systems KL are not accepting any seat assignments from delta's system (website or phone). If it's KL metal you MUST do seat assignments on klm.com until IT problems are worked out. Any seat maps or seats you think you're getting from delta are nothing but placebos.

Related to this is that until the problems are resolved no seat assignments can be done on klm.com for flights with DL flight numbers.

SO, if you book through delta for flights on klm metal and want to select seats, including economy comfort, you must make sure that the flights are booked with KL flight numbers. Then you can go to klm.com, enter your name and delta conf #, and then select seats for the flights with KL #'s.

Note: According to a KL person I talked to in AMS yesterday, DL are working with them to resolve seating issues. He said that if a seat is selected on DL and the EXACT same seat # and letter are indicated on the reservation on klm.com that the seat was assigned properly and should be OK. He said that EC seats are the exception and must be assigned and purchased on klm.com


If you have a current flight on KL metal w/ a DL nuimber you will need to have DL change the flight to a KL number in both the reservation and the e-tick. BTW, I believe w/ DL the only group who can change the flight # on the e-ticket is the Int'l ReIssue Desk. Once this is done you should be able to select seats on klm.com without encountering the 'Not Possible' message.

Beginning a couple of weeks ago KL agents are being discouraged from doing seat assigns over the phone for flights booked on delta due to concerns that they will be overwhelmed with requests.

NOTE: KLM allows seat selection for inter-continental flights at 90 days and for Intra-EU within either 48hrs, 30hrs, or at gate (which of these 3 times depends on the flight).

DL PM / ST Elite + get a 50% discount on KLM EC seating. GM, FO, ST Elite must pay full additional cost for EC when seats are selected on KLM.com


Other interesting stuff:

KL does not actually use the DL confirmation # anywhere in their system, when you enter it they do a background xlation at the web page to their number. SO, if you call their number in NL you will need either their conf # (not provided on delta.com) or your e-ticket # (not provided on delta.com?) or a KL agent willing to do a manual lookup which they are not supposed to do for flights booked through delta.

Also found out about what was happening in NWA days. As of Oct 2008 all NW flight numbers for TATL flights on KL metal were able to select seats on klm.com. KL were also accepting seat assignments from NW for flights w/ NW flight numbers but not for flights w/ KL flight numbers. The latter could be done on klm.com using the klm conf# provided on nwa.c

Xeno

Does this apply only to USA-AMS or also AMS to parts of Europe?

baqnav

great tips; I've spent hours trying to get seat assignments from IAD-AMS-IAD. It's now about 45 days away and still no success. This sounds like it could be the solution.

florin

In other words, it worked excellent for NW and now DL broke it. Best in class, indeed!

florin

(emphasis mine)
That is nothing new. Every time a code share ticket is issued there are at least 2 PNRs: one for the operating airline and one for the codesharing airline. (in most cases there's also an Amadeus PNR). You should be able to see both PNRs on the e-ticket receipt. To access your KL reservation for a DL-issued ticket you need to use the KL PNR or the e-ticket number. That has always been the case.

JKPFlyer

Interesting. What I do find more interesting is that when I looked up the information on KLM and tried to get the KLM confirmation # it still listed it as the Delta confirmation #.

dagnyt

Thanks for the tip.

Just checked this on my May KLM connections from AMS-ARN and TXL-AMS. Doesn't work yet because you can't get seats more than 90 days out.

But it pulled up the KLM flights and recognized them using my DL confirmation code, so when I get within 90 days I'll go back in and score some seats.

baqnav

good suggestion but it didn't fix the seating issue for me and my travel partner. We asked Delta to change the DL flight numbers to KL flight numbers and change the ticket to KL from DL (006). Afterwards, I called KL again and got a nice agent who spent a lot of time working the issue but couldn't fix it. The good news, a lot of KL and DL agents are aware of the seating issues and it sounds like both airlines' IT people are working it. Best of luck

JSFox

bagnav, it's the e-ticket record that needs to be changed, not the issue stock. It can still be on 006 stock, but you must call the reissue desk and have them manually change the flight number on the e-ticket since this is a separate record from the PNR.

PMMMDL

I booked a TATL KL codeshare flight yesterday (IAD-AMS) with the DL flight numbers on a 006 ticket and was able to choose my seat assignment (telephone reservation with D bucket SWU upgrade to Biz).

Maybe they worked out the IT issues.

MSPeconomist

In the past, this worked so well. For more than fifteen years, I've been doing at least several TATL RTs on NW with connections through AMS on KLM's short- and medium-haul business class. The NW PE agents always were careful to tell me and document my KLM confirmation number. They always got me good seats in advance, either at the time of booking (although I usually could not later change the seats myself on line or see the seating map, just see my own seat assignment, but the NW PE agent could apparently see the entire seat map because I remember discussing what was available at times) or by requesting the seat type very specifically (probably because it was too far out) and having it later show up as requested on my NW reservation. It was always "one phone call" shopping for the entire transaction, including all documentation and all seat assignments for my trips.

It's shocking but understandable that DL's IT mess has become so bad that KLM refuses to deal with it. How sad that DL is destroying the successful joint arrangement with KLM that NW had developed and nurtured over the years to the benefit of both North American and EU based passengers.

remyontheroad

I would be wary of this.

Several times (including 2 days ago) I've had DL accept seat choices for me only to have KL say that they have no record.

The only thing I would trust is to have KL confirm it for me.

In fact, I now call the Netherlands number anytime I have anything I want to do with KL.

At JFK recently, even the KL agents who were checking people in for a KL flight couldn't help me with my seat assignment for a connecting flight out of AMS because as they said "we use different systems."

baqnav

Thank you for the clarification. I spoke to a KL agent (in Canada) who verified that EC seats were available and our STE + status was reflected in the KL system. However, she said DL would have to make any changes to our PNR since we can't view seatmaps or make changes on klm.com (manage my bookings). Fortunately, I got a knowledgeable DL agent who had experience on the NW/KL help desk yet she couldn't get access to the EC seats (even with the KL flight numbers vs the DL flight numbers). She could view EC seatmap by looking at the KL site (Amadeus) but it would not assign those seats (even for an additional fee) to our PNR. I've sent another email to DL customer care to see if they have any updates to the IT problem with DL flight numbers operated by KL equipment. Our IAD-AMS segment is in 22 days and AMS-IAD in 26 days. Good luck everyone.

Ben_NYC

The last time I flew on KL (JFK/AMS) I used the DL confirmation number to look up the reservation on the Air France website. I was able to get my seat assignments with no problem. (I booked using the KL flight numbers)

avflyer

I flew this past December and early January on the return on KL. Award ticket was DL out (KL metal) and KL ticket on the return. Was able to go to KLM.com and do seats for the return including EC selection. I was amazed that my ST EP status was recognized.

That said, I believe the issue is less DL's IT and more the fact that KL is charging for EC seating. DL showed the EC section as light-blue (elite section) so you can try and grab em but they're not yours.

Great information and FWIW, the EC seats really do have more room and double recline. I would suggest not taking the last row in EC in that while I know it has the added legroom, I wonder if it has the double recline.