The Definitive "How To Search for Low Tier Business Awards"
Aug 9, 2010, 2:45 am
#151
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: DEN
Programs: Free checked in bag on UA & DL. Free icecream at Marriott checkin.
Posts: 2,862
Booked another low business class ticket
I finally finished the last of my Delta miles today. It was a sweet moment to get the last business class ticket at the lowest mileage level after searching around for hours. Thanks to this thread again.
In the end, I find it quite interesting how Delta wants to play this game. It goes counter to every cost analysis they might have put together to minimize the interaction with a live Delta agent. The approach I had taken was just book the ticket at a slightly higher mileage from whichever gateway that was available. Then check every now and then and keep modifying the reservation to include extra legs and optimize the routing. The end result is making changes until almost the day of travel. After 2 dozen such changes one gets the itinerary they want. I think they might start charging for changing award tickets for a Diamond member.
Once I did argue about the obscene amount of miles they required but found it was futile and was better to constantly re-issue the ticket based on availability.
In the end, I find it quite interesting how Delta wants to play this game. It goes counter to every cost analysis they might have put together to minimize the interaction with a live Delta agent. The approach I had taken was just book the ticket at a slightly higher mileage from whichever gateway that was available. Then check every now and then and keep modifying the reservation to include extra legs and optimize the routing. The end result is making changes until almost the day of travel. After 2 dozen such changes one gets the itinerary they want. I think they might start charging for changing award tickets for a Diamond member.
Once I did argue about the obscene amount of miles they required but found it was futile and was better to constantly re-issue the ticket based on availability.
Aug 9, 2010, 5:32 pm
#152
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: ORD/MDW
Programs: DL DM; SPG Gold
Posts: 1,733
[QUOTE=TravellingMan;14446540]The approach I had taken was just book the ticket at a slightly higher mileage from whichever gateway that was available. Then check every now and then and keep modifying the reservation to include extra legs and optimize the routing. The end result is making changes until almost the day of travel. After 2 dozen such changes one gets the itinerary they want. I think they might start charging for changing award tickets for a Diamond member.
[QUOTE]
Interesting.
I have been doing the same thing to reduce the number of stops in my itineraries. Booking whatever is available at low level, even if it has 3 or more stops, then checking for the low levels on more direct flights and re-issuing.
I was not sure however if adding legs would work as well. Can they modify origins or destination by adding legs without cancelling the original flight? I hear that when an award is redeposited, it does not mean that it will be made available for re-booking at same low miles levels. I was thus afraid of loosing my main low award flight when trying to add a leg. Your post suggests that it's not the case, right?
[QUOTE]
Interesting.
I have been doing the same thing to reduce the number of stops in my itineraries. Booking whatever is available at low level, even if it has 3 or more stops, then checking for the low levels on more direct flights and re-issuing.
I was not sure however if adding legs would work as well. Can they modify origins or destination by adding legs without cancelling the original flight? I hear that when an award is redeposited, it does not mean that it will be made available for re-booking at same low miles levels. I was thus afraid of loosing my main low award flight when trying to add a leg. Your post suggests that it's not the case, right?
Aug 10, 2010, 3:43 am
#153
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: DEN
Programs: Free checked in bag on UA & DL. Free icecream at Marriott checkin.
Posts: 2,862
I was not sure however if adding legs would work as well. Can they modify origins or destination by adding legs without cancelling the original flight? I hear that when an award is redeposited, it does not mean that it will be made available for re-booking at same low miles levels. I was thus afraid of loosing my main low award flight when trying to add a leg. Your post suggests that it's not the case, right?
I have had no difficulty in adding legs to existing award tickets. I have found legs from "home airport" to the Delta hubs sometimes take it over the top in terms of mileage requirements. I have just booked it from the lowest cost point and added the "offending" legs on a later date. No one has so far told me I will lose the original legs.
Once I had the mileage requirement jump from 120K to 175K just because the last leg from MSP - DEN was not available. I tried to reason with them that it is going to cost all of us time and money and why not call revenue department to release one seat in the N/W class. They flatly refused and I got it reissued later, when it opened up.
Aug 11, 2010, 2:57 pm
#154
Join Date: Jan 2010
Programs: HHonors Diamond, Delta Plat, National Executive
Posts: 165
I'm currently Gold and looking to book a ticket for my daughter (for January), and I know there is a re-deposit fee for Gold Members, but if my current flying pattern continues, I'll have Plat by end of Sept/early October, can I then change the itinerary (after reaching Plat) for Free or is it based on status at time of original booking?
Aug 12, 2010, 4:58 pm
#155
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Palm Springs ca
Programs: aa lifetime platinum
Posts: 747
well. bad news.
the expert flyer o inventory on air france and the corresponding on AZ no longer corresponds to what is available for skymiles redemption. i recently tried this from cdg- ath - o availability on expertflyer , but not on the delta website or on the phone .
expertflyer confirmed to me the bad news . couldnt book it even though there was o availability , since they did not let delta have the inventory.
Aug 12, 2010, 8:11 pm
#156
Suspended
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Bay Area
Programs: DL SM, UA MP.
Posts: 12,729
I would pay for the FCO-PMO flight, maybe CDG-PMO flight, if DL just had low BE award inventory from SFO-CDG or SFO-FCO.
It keeps showing a SFO-SEA-CDG route for $100k but when you try to book it, says one of the flights sold out. Then you search again and it comes up again.
It's been like this for a couple of weeks. Maybe a sign that eventually that inventory will be available.
It keeps showing a SFO-SEA-CDG route for $100k but when you try to book it, says one of the flights sold out. Then you search again and it comes up again.
It's been like this for a couple of weeks. Maybe a sign that eventually that inventory will be available.
Aug 13, 2010, 7:38 am
#157
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2001
Programs: DL 1 million, AA 1 mil, HH lapsed Diamond, Marriott Plat
Posts: 28,190
I would pay for the FCO-PMO flight, maybe CDG-PMO flight, if DL just had low BE award inventory from SFO-CDG or SFO-FCO.
It keeps showing a SFO-SEA-CDG route for $100k but when you try to book it, says one of the flights sold out. Then you search again and it comes up again.
It keeps showing a SFO-SEA-CDG route for $100k but when you try to book it, says one of the flights sold out. Then you search again and it comes up again.
Examples on 5/9 or 5/11:
QX 2075 SJC 1520 LAX 1635
AF 69 LAX 1845 CDG 1415 + 1
Return (example) 5/19:
AF 306 CDG 1030 SEA 1150
AS 316 SEA 1555 SFO 1703
Last edited by 3Cforme; Aug 13, 2010 at 1:43 pm
Aug 13, 2010, 4:24 pm
#158
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: DEN
Programs: Free checked in bag on UA & DL. Free icecream at Marriott checkin.
Posts: 2,862
The itinerary can be changed for free once you are platinum. It is not based on status at time of original booking. It is based on status at the moment of changing the ticket.
Aug 17, 2010, 10:49 am
#159
Suspended
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Bay Area
Programs: DL SM, UA MP.
Posts: 12,729
Well not seeing any availability for low tier BE flights to Europe out of SFO.
I checked a couple of weeks out all the way to 320-330 days out, various random dates.
Even when I select two "Low" dates on the calendar, I get 150k for SFO-BCN in February, March or April and it's with some ridiculous layover, turning it into a 34-hour flight outbound.
I tried the one way coach searches to SFO-CDG and it's all coming out high, no BE awards in the search results.
Only time 100k awards have shown up was when SEA-CDG segment flashed up but when I try to book, it says one of the flights is sold out. I tried calling and they say it's a glitch in the system that that routing was shown in the first place.
I was going to stay with DL next year, because I anticipate at least one 10K MQM mileage boost bonus next year, possibly two.
But now, I'm going to look at fares on other airlines and start accumulating elsewhere. Might as well cancel the DL Amex too.
I checked a couple of weeks out all the way to 320-330 days out, various random dates.
Even when I select two "Low" dates on the calendar, I get 150k for SFO-BCN in February, March or April and it's with some ridiculous layover, turning it into a 34-hour flight outbound.
I tried the one way coach searches to SFO-CDG and it's all coming out high, no BE awards in the search results.
Only time 100k awards have shown up was when SEA-CDG segment flashed up but when I try to book, it says one of the flights is sold out. I tried calling and they say it's a glitch in the system that that routing was shown in the first place.
I was going to stay with DL next year, because I anticipate at least one 10K MQM mileage boost bonus next year, possibly two.
But now, I'm going to look at fares on other airlines and start accumulating elsewhere. Might as well cancel the DL Amex too.
Aug 20, 2010, 6:24 pm
#160
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: San Francisco, CA
Programs: Delta Silver Medallion, PC, AA, UA
Posts: 183
no AF available
Did i miss something or have I been away too long?
I just spent about 15 minutes using the economy/one way search method from SFO and LAX to CDG and I'm showing zero direct availability on AF at any award level for any month in the schedule.
Do i need to keep looking or is this the brave new world?
I just spent about 15 minutes using the economy/one way search method from SFO and LAX to CDG and I'm showing zero direct availability on AF at any award level for any month in the schedule.
Do i need to keep looking or is this the brave new world?
Aug 20, 2010, 6:30 pm
#161
Suspended
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Bay Area
Programs: DL SM, UA MP.
Posts: 12,729
Did i miss something or have I been away too long?
I just spent about 15 minutes using the economy/one way search method from SFO and LAX to CDG and I'm showing zero direct availability on AF at any award level for any month in the schedule.
Do i need to keep looking or is this the brave new world?
I just spent about 15 minutes using the economy/one way search method from SFO and LAX to CDG and I'm showing zero direct availability on AF at any award level for any month in the schedule.
Do i need to keep looking or is this the brave new world?
Maybe they figure they will just try to sell those seats until the last minute then maybe release them to awards.
Only problem is, there isn't availability a month or two out either.
Aug 20, 2010, 6:47 pm
#162
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Worldwide
Posts: 12,949
Did i miss something or have I been away too long?
I just spent about 15 minutes using the economy/one way search method from SFO and LAX to CDG and I'm showing zero direct availability on AF at any award level for any month in the schedule.
Do i need to keep looking or is this the brave new world?
I just spent about 15 minutes using the economy/one way search method from SFO and LAX to CDG and I'm showing zero direct availability on AF at any award level for any month in the schedule.
Do i need to keep looking or is this the brave new world?
So you need to use a better Tool to search for actual award availability and then call DL to book:
[KVS Availability Tool 5.7.4/Diamond - Sabre: Availability/FS/US]
Code:
LAX Los Angeles Int'l CA US [KLAX] CDG Paris Charles De Gaulle FR [LFPG] WED 01 Dec 2010 Carrier Flight From Depart To Arrive A/C St Availability --------- ------ ---- -------- ---- -------- --- -- ------------ AF 65 LAX 15:45 CDG 11:25 77W O1 X0 AF 69 LAX 18:30 CDG 14:05 77W O0 X9
Code:
LAX Los Angeles Int'l CA US [KLAX] CDG Paris Charles De Gaulle FR [LFPG] WED 01 Dec 2010 | 1 Seat Carrier Flight From Depart To Arrive A/C St Availability --------- ------ ---- -------- ---- -------- --- -- ------------ DL 2404 LAX 10:15 SLC 13:05 737 0 YX+ YM+ -> DL 170 SLC 17:00 CDG 11:25 +1 767 0 CS+ YM+ DL 2204 LAX 13:10 SLC 16:01 757 0 FX+ YM+ -> DL 170 SLC 17:00 CDG 11:25 +1 767 0 CS+ YM+ DL 1404 LAX 06:20 SLC 09:15 757 0 YX+ YM+ -> DL 170 SLC 17:00 CDG 11:25 +1 767 0 CS+ YM+ DL/OO 4468 LAX 07:45 SLC 10:30 0 YX+ YM+ -> DL 170 SLC 17:00 CDG 11:25 +1 767 0 CS+ YM+ DL/OO 4580 LAX 11:45 SLC 14:30 0 YX+ YM+ -> DL 170 SLC 17:00 CDG 11:25 +1 767 0 CS+ YM+ DL 2268 LAX 00:45 MSP 06:21 320 0 FX+ YM+ -> DL 220 MSP 15:40 CDG 07:25 +1 767 0 CM+ YM+ DL 2154 LAX 06:20 ATL 13:38 767 0 FX+ YM+ -> DL 28 ATL 15:30 CDG 06:10 +1 767 0 CM+ YM+ DL 2154 LAX 06:20 ATL 13:38 767 0 FX+ YS+ -> DL 22 ATL 20:40 CDG 11:15 +1 330 0 CM+ YS+ DL 2068 LAX 06:40 MSP 12:17 753 0 FX+ YM+ -> DL 220 MSP 15:40 CDG 07:25 +1 767 0 CM+ YM+ DL 2014 LAX 07:10 CVG 14:30 320 0 FX+ YS+ -> DL 44 CVG 15:55 CDG 06:10 +1 767 0 CM+ YS+ DL 16 LAX 07:50 ATL 15:10 767 0 CX+ YM+ -> DL 22 ATL 20:40 CDG 11:15 +1 330 0 CM+ YM+ DL 1868 LAX 08:00 MSP 13:30 757 0 FX+ YM+ -> DL 220 MSP 15:40 CDG 07:25 +1 767 0 CM+ YM+ DL 124 LAX 09:00 ATL 16:20 767 0 CX+ YS+ -> DL 22 ATL 20:40 CDG 11:15 +1 330 0 CM+ YS+ DL 124 LAX 09:00 ATL 16:20 767 0 CX+ YM+ -> DL 28 ATL 15:30 +1 CDG 06:10 +2 767 0 CM+ YM+ DL 101 LAX 10:25 ATL 17:44 757 0 CX+ YS+ -> DL 22 ATL 20:40 CDG 11:15 +1 330 0 CM+ YS+ DL 101 LAX 10:25 ATL 17:44 757 0 CX+ YM+ -> DL 28 ATL 15:30 +1 CDG 06:10 +2 767 0 CM+ YM+ DL 1968 LAX 10:30 MSP 16:02 737 0 FX+ YS+ -> DL 220 MSP 15:40 +1 CDG 07:25 +2 767 0 CM+ YS+ DL 1814 LAX 10:55 CVG 18:06 737 0 FX+ YM+ -> DL 44 CVG 15:55 +1 CDG 06:10 +2 767 0 CM+ YM+ DL 1754 LAX 12:00 ATL 19:19 767 0 FX+ YS+ -> DL 22 ATL 20:40 CDG 11:15 +1 330 0 CM+ YS+ DL 1754 LAX 12:00 ATL 19:19 767 0 FX+ YM+ -> DL 28 ATL 15:30 +1 CDG 06:10 +2 767 0 CM+ YM+ DL 2168 LAX 12:25 MSP 18:04 320 0 FX+ YS+ -> DL 220 MSP 15:40 +1 CDG 07:25 +2 767 0 CM+ YS+ DL 152 LAX 13:00 ATL 20:21 330 0 CX+ YM+ -> DL 28 ATL 15:30 +1 CDG 06:10 +2 767 0 CM+ YM+ DL 1554 LAX 14:25 ATL 21:51 757 0 FX+ YM+ -> DL 28 ATL 15:30 +1 CDG 06:10 +2 767 0 CM+ YM+ DL 1554 LAX 14:25 ATL 21:51 757 0 FX+ YM+ -> DL 22 ATL 20:40 +1 CDG 11:15 +2 330 0 CM+ YM+ DL 40 LAX 15:05 MSP 20:38 737 0 CX+ YS+ -> DL 220 MSP 15:40 +1 CDG 07:25 +2 767 0 CM+ YS+ DL 1454 LAX 16:45 ATL 23:59 737 0 FX+ YM+ -> DL 28 ATL 15:30 +1 CDG 06:10 +2 767 0 CM+ YM+ DL 1454 LAX 16:45 ATL 23:59 737 0 FX+ YM+ -> DL 22 ATL 20:40 +1 CDG 11:15 +2 330 0 CM+ YM+ DL 1568 LAX 18:15 MSP 23:46 320 0 FX+ YS+ -> DL 220 MSP 15:40 +1 CDG 07:25 +2 767 0 CM+ YS+ DL 2454 LAX 22:55 ATL 06:09 +1 767 0 FX+ YM+ -> DL 28 ATL 15:30 +1 CDG 06:10 +2 767 0 CM+ YM+ DL 2454 LAX 22:55 ATL 06:09 +1 767 0 FX+ YM+ -> DL 22 ATL 20:40 +1 CDG 11:15 +2 330 0 CM+ YM+ DL 1914 LAX 23:35 CVG 06:45 +1 320 0 FX+ YM+ -> DL 44 CVG 15:55 +1 CDG 06:10 +2 767 0 CM+ YM+ DL 2354 LAX 23:55 ATL 07:09 +1 767 0 FX+ YM+ -> DL 28 ATL 15:30 +1 CDG 06:10 +2 767 0 CM+ YM+ DL 2354 LAX 23:55 ATL 07:09 +1 767 0 FX+ YM+ -> DL 22 ATL 20:40 +1 CDG 11:15 +2 330 0 CM+ YM+ DL/OO 4553 LAX 06:20 LAS 07:30 0 FX+ YM+ -> DL 220 LAS 09:10 CDG 07:25 +1 1 CM+ YM+ DL/OO 4626 LAX 08:20 LAS 09:30 0 FX+ YM+ -> DL 220 LAS 09:10 +1 CDG 07:25 +2 1 CM+ YM+ DL 1061 LAX 09:55 MCO 17:43 737 0 FX+ YM+ -> DL 28 MCO 12:30 +1 CDG 06:10 +2 1 CM+ YM+ DL/OO 4916 LAX 11:15 LAS 12:23 0 FX+ -> DL 220 LAS 09:10 +1 CDG 07:25 +2 1 CM+ DL/OO 4922 LAX 14:30 LAS 15:40 0 FX+ YM+ -> DL 220 LAS 09:10 +1 CDG 07:25 +2 1 CM+ YM+ DL/OO 4834 LAX 17:50 LAS 19:00 0 FX+ YM+ -> DL 220 LAS 09:10 +1 CDG 07:25 +2 1 CM+ YM+ DL/OO 4611 LAX 19:30 LAS 20:40 0 FX+ YM+ -> DL 220 LAS 09:10 +1 CDG 07:25 +2 1 CM+ YM+ DL 1063 LAX 22:50 MCO 06:34 +1 737 0 FX+ YM+ -> DL 28 MCO 12:30 +1 CDG 06:10 +2 1 CM+ YM+ DL 2204 LAX 13:10 SLC 16:01 757 0 FX+ -> DL 2085 SLC 09:45 +1 MSP 13:25 +1 320 0 FM+ -> DL 220 MSP 15:40 +1 CDG 07:25 +2 767 0 CM+ DL 2004 LAX 16:20 SLC 19:05 757 0 FX+ -> DL 2085 SLC 09:45 +1 MSP 13:25 +1 320 0 FM+ -> DL 220 MSP 15:40 +1 CDG 07:25 +2 767 0 CM+ DL 2404 LAX 10:15 SLC 13:05 737 0 YS+ -> DL 1074 SLC 13:55 MSP 17:33 M90 0 YS+ -> DL 220 MSP 15:40 +1 CDG 07:25 +2 767 0 YS+ DL 2404 LAX 10:15 SLC 13:05 737 0 YS+ -> DL 2085 SLC 09:45 +1 MSP 13:25 +1 320 0 YS+ -> DL 220 MSP 15:40 +1 CDG 07:25 +2 767 0 YS+ DL 2404 LAX 10:15 SLC 13:05 737 0 YM+ -> DL 1208 SLC 13:55 CVG 19:21 320 0 YM+ -> DL 44 CVG 15:55 +1 CDG 06:10 +2 767 0 YM+ DL 2404 LAX 10:15 SLC 13:05 737 0 YM+ -> DL/OO 3296 SLC 19:45 MSP 23:22 0 YM+ -> DL 220 MSP 15:40 +1 CDG 07:25 +2 767 0 YM+
Aug 23, 2010, 3:01 pm
#164
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: SFO
Programs: UA Silver
Posts: 1,155
The approach I had taken was just book the ticket at a slightly higher mileage from whichever gateway that was available. Then check every now and then and keep modifying the reservation to include extra legs and optimize the routing. The end result is making changes until almost the day of travel. After 2 dozen such changes one gets the itinerary they want.
