Something better than AMEX HH Surpass for grocery spend?
Mar 19, 2017, 1:55 pm
#16
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 398
Surprised the amex edp is mentioned. Yes, 6k grocery limit, but also 2x points on gas ( 2.4x points with bonus )
I would think a combo would be more effective than just one card. How amex edp, Ed, and Chase freedom?
Use the freedom from the grocery category months, than the remaining grocery spend could go on the edp and ed. Those Mr points would go into the same bucket.
4.5x Mr points on 6k grocery spend, and another 2.4x mr points for another 6k spend. The PRG also works but the ed card has no annual fee and a .4 better earning rate. And you still get 2.4x mr points on gas with the edp, with a much lower annual fee.
I would think a combo would be more effective than just one card. How amex edp, Ed, and Chase freedom?
Use the freedom from the grocery category months, than the remaining grocery spend could go on the edp and ed. Those Mr points would go into the same bucket.
4.5x Mr points on 6k grocery spend, and another 2.4x mr points for another 6k spend. The PRG also works but the ed card has no annual fee and a .4 better earning rate. And you still get 2.4x mr points on gas with the edp, with a much lower annual fee.
Mar 19, 2017, 2:54 pm
#17
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Join Date: Nov 1999
Posts: 24,153
I think you're misunderstanding what Hilton did.
Hilton got rid of categories, but the points rates are still not based on actual room rates on a particular night. They may be based somewhat on typical room rates, but not the room rates of that night.
I just did a search in Orange County CA for 1 night on 17 Apr. Sort by price and you'll immediately see how untrue your assumption is. For the same 30000 points, you can get either Hampton Inn *& Suites San Bernardino which is $113 cash, or you can get Hilton Orange County/Costa Mesa which is $210 cash.
That is certainly not revenue-based redemption.
Now, perhaps it's a devaluation still, and perhaps Hilton points are not as valuable for you as before still, but revenue-based redemption it is not, and thus fixed redemption value it is not.
As to other cards: Chase Freedom will give 5x Ultimate Rewards (5% if you use it as cash back) on groceries Apr/May/Jun this year, but only those three months. So to get the max on groceries, you may need to use one card one quarter and a different card the next quarter.
Hilton got rid of categories, but the points rates are still not based on actual room rates on a particular night. They may be based somewhat on typical room rates, but not the room rates of that night.
I just did a search in Orange County CA for 1 night on 17 Apr. Sort by price and you'll immediately see how untrue your assumption is. For the same 30000 points, you can get either Hampton Inn *& Suites San Bernardino which is $113 cash, or you can get Hilton Orange County/Costa Mesa which is $210 cash.
That is certainly not revenue-based redemption.
Now, perhaps it's a devaluation still, and perhaps Hilton points are not as valuable for you as before still, but revenue-based redemption it is not, and thus fixed redemption value it is not.
As to other cards: Chase Freedom will give 5x Ultimate Rewards (5% if you use it as cash back) on groceries Apr/May/Jun this year, but only those three months. So to get the max on groceries, you may need to use one card one quarter and a different card the next quarter.
But the Hil CM is exactly what Ive been talking about where the only reg play going forward is when a Hotel rates is above the .005 per pt value. They will exist but far and few in between
yet the DT Club by SNA is reg $139 or HH $129 yet they want 30k, which more pts then it s/b , its cap is 30k so it s/b apx 26-27k
Im sorry I came back but will simply look for the few bargains that may exist and use up my pts if theres no decent promo instead of using $$$ as long as I can get .005 at a min, so I wouldnt book the DT Club on pts nor pay for it
Last edited by craz; Mar 19, 2017 at 3:02 pm
Mar 19, 2017, 3:05 pm
#18
Join Date: Mar 2017
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Surprised the amex edp is mentioned. Yes, 6k grocery limit, but also 2x points on gas ( 2.4x points with bonus )
I would think a combo would be more effective than just one card. How amex edp, Ed, and Chase freedom?
Use the freedom from the grocery category months, than the remaining grocery spend could go on the edp and ed. Those Mr points would go into the same bucket.
4.5x Mr points on 6k grocery spend, and another 2.4x mr points for another 6k spend. The PRG also works but the ed card has no annual fee and a .4 better earning rate. And you still get 2.4x mr points on gas with the edp, with a much lower annual fee.
I would think a combo would be more effective than just one card. How amex edp, Ed, and Chase freedom?
Use the freedom from the grocery category months, than the remaining grocery spend could go on the edp and ed. Those Mr points would go into the same bucket.
4.5x Mr points on 6k grocery spend, and another 2.4x mr points for another 6k spend. The PRG also works but the ed card has no annual fee and a .4 better earning rate. And you still get 2.4x mr points on gas with the edp, with a much lower annual fee.
You also fail to take into account the idea of the PRG... Often you can get 3%+ back with the correct transfer partners on grocery store spend, with no cap, and then there are a ton of benefits that outweigh that annual fee.
Mar 19, 2017, 5:00 pm
#19
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Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Florida
Posts: 29,740
Also take advantage of the current bonus transfer of the hotel points to Aeroplan, via the route of Marriott Travel Package.
We actually dont have any need for award flights the rest of this year, but I dont want to transfer big bulks to an FFP and immediately turnaround to book award flights - too many horror stores on this front from the AF, Aeroplan and may be AS also.
So I am thinking to transfer the points this year, let them sit in the Brand New Aeroplan account for an extended time before using it.
The caveat is Aeroplan has a 12 months inactivity would wipe out your account policy - if not live in Canada it is a bit hard to keep it alive.
Mar 19, 2017, 5:06 pm
#20
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 398
Your math is incorrect. EDP is 3 MR/dollar on gas after the 50% bonus. 1/2 of 2 is 1, so 2+1= 3.
You also fail to take into account the idea of the PRG... Often you can get 3%+ back with the correct transfer partners on grocery store spend, with no cap, and then there are a ton of benefits that outweigh that annual fee.
You also fail to take into account the idea of the PRG... Often you can get 3%+ back with the correct transfer partners on grocery store spend, with no cap, and then there are a ton of benefits that outweigh that annual fee.
But I hardly failed to take into account the idea of the PRG. I get it, it can be useful. But also has no bonus for non category spend. So it really depends on what his total spend looks like. I was just throwing out another option to consider.
if he spends that much on groceries, having both could be useful. Once the 6k is tapped out for 4.5x points, use the PRG for unlimited groceries. All depends on spend patterns in other categories.
Mar 19, 2017, 6:27 pm
#21
Join Date: Mar 2017
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Yes, I mixed up the ed and edp earning structure. A simple mistake.
But I hardly failed to take into account the idea of the PRG. I get it, it can be useful. But also has no bonus for non category spend. So it really depends on what his total spend looks like. I was just throwing out another option to consider.
if he spends that much on groceries, having both could be useful. Once the 6k is tapped out for 4.5x points, use the PRG for unlimited groceries. All depends on spend patterns in other categories.
But I hardly failed to take into account the idea of the PRG. I get it, it can be useful. But also has no bonus for non category spend. So it really depends on what his total spend looks like. I was just throwing out another option to consider.
if he spends that much on groceries, having both could be useful. Once the 6k is tapped out for 4.5x points, use the PRG for unlimited groceries. All depends on spend patterns in other categories.
3x points on airline purchases is also nice, which can be redeemed for 4.2%-5.4% cash back when redeemed in the future with that method.
Mar 19, 2017, 9:06 pm
#22
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Mar 20, 2017, 8:39 am
#23
Join Date: Mar 2017
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Anything lower than 2% is unacceptable because that return is available with no annual fee from Citi Double Cash and others, and now it appears that 2.5% is readily available for domestic spending with a modest annual fee. I don't think 2.5% is sustainable, but if it continues the miles/points cards will have to do more to keep their cards in our wallets after the new account bonus is earned.
The PRG is much better than the Double Cash for everyday spending, it's not even a question. I've had both, and still have the PRG, unless you're the type that just wants straight cash back.
Additionally, added value comes from the perks that outweigh the annual fee, something the Double Cash doesn't have, nor does it waive FTF's.
Mar 20, 2017, 11:36 am
#24
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 398
It has a bonus for non-category spend, if redeemed for travel, which is what the card is, a travel card. Most Jet Blue points are worth 1.4-1.8 cents, so if that's your primary redemption method, you're getting 1.4-1.8% back on non-category purchases. I consider the extra value in redemption as a "bonus" rather than the additional points on spend. You also have to remember the card has gas, groceries, Amex travel, airlines, and restaurants in bonus categories... Very good for a card.
3x points on airline purchases is also nice, which can be redeemed for 4.2%-5.4% cash back when redeemed in the future with that method.
3x points on airline purchases is also nice, which can be redeemed for 4.2%-5.4% cash back when redeemed in the future with that method.
4.5x on groceries is more than 3x. Makes sense there. And the MR points all go into the same pot, and worth the same redemption rates.
So using the EDP for 1.5x MR points on non bonus spend would still be a better idea than using the PRG for non bonus spend. And use the PRG for its bonus categories. You are earning much more this way if you can put 30 transactions per month on the EDP, at least until the 6k is tapped out.
If you want just one card with that much grocery spend, the PRG seems like a good idea. If you are willing to put together a little strategy between another card or two, it can work out rather nicely.
Mar 20, 2017, 12:14 pm
#25
Join Date: Mar 2017
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Not sure what the contention here is. We're pretty much saying the same thing. I said the EDP should be used along with the PRG if the spend habits support it.
4.5x on groceries is more than 3x. Makes sense there. And the MR points all go into the same pot, and worth the same redemption rates.
So using the EDP for 1.5x MR points on non bonus spend would still be a better idea than using the PRG for non bonus spend. And use the PRG for its bonus categories. You are earning much more this way if you can put 30 transactions per month on the EDP, at least until the 6k is tapped out.
If you want just one card with that much grocery spend, the PRG seems like a good idea. If you are willing to put together a little strategy between another card or two, it can work out rather nicely.
4.5x on groceries is more than 3x. Makes sense there. And the MR points all go into the same pot, and worth the same redemption rates.
So using the EDP for 1.5x MR points on non bonus spend would still be a better idea than using the PRG for non bonus spend. And use the PRG for its bonus categories. You are earning much more this way if you can put 30 transactions per month on the EDP, at least until the 6k is tapped out.
If you want just one card with that much grocery spend, the PRG seems like a good idea. If you are willing to put together a little strategy between another card or two, it can work out rather nicely.
Sometimes I think I should've applied for the Everyday Preferred instead of the Old Blue Cash when I was approved for them on the same day. It makes sense to combine the points rather than have separate programs, but then again, that's adding $95/year on top of the $195 I pay for the PRG, which the PRG by itself is borderline what I'll pay yearly for cards. If I traveled 5+ times a year by air and Amtrak and had a salary north of $100,000 it would be a different story... But enough about me already lol.
Mar 22, 2017, 6:25 pm
#26
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Lehigh Valley, Pennsylvania
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I got rid of my BCP and stopped using Surpass for groceries because of the limits on how much value they yielded. Because I don't want to deal with keeping track of the number of transactions I make each month, I avoided the ED and EDP. I have been using my PRG and getting an average of 2.5 cents per MR point, so about 5 cents per dollar spent on groceries. It works for me, but for others YMMV.
Mar 22, 2017, 10:02 pm
#27
Join Date: Jan 2014
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Yes, I agree, they should be used together. I think I'm getting confused while trying to talk to multiple people at once.
Sometimes I think I should've applied for the Everyday Preferred instead of the Old Blue Cash when I was approved for them on the same day. It makes sense to combine the points rather than have separate programs, but then again, that's adding $95/year on top of the $195 I pay for the PRG, which the PRG by itself is borderline what I'll pay yearly for cards. If I traveled 5+ times a year by air and Amtrak and had a salary north of $100,000 it would be a different story... But enough about me already lol.
Sometimes I think I should've applied for the Everyday Preferred instead of the Old Blue Cash when I was approved for them on the same day. It makes sense to combine the points rather than have separate programs, but then again, that's adding $95/year on top of the $195 I pay for the PRG, which the PRG by itself is borderline what I'll pay yearly for cards. If I traveled 5+ times a year by air and Amtrak and had a salary north of $100,000 it would be a different story... But enough about me already lol.
Mar 22, 2017, 11:29 pm
#28
Join Date: Mar 2017
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I got rid of my BCP and stopped using Surpass for groceries because of the limits on how much value they yielded. Because I don't want to deal with keeping track of the number of transactions I make each month, I avoided the ED and EDP. I have been using my PRG and getting an average of 2.5 cents per MR point, so about 5 cents per dollar spent on groceries. It works for me, but for others YMMV.
Mar 22, 2017, 11:38 pm
#29
Join Date: Mar 2017
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For groceries I was using BCP, OBC, and later switched to EDP. Apparently $6k is not enough for groceries for the family (with occasional Walmart GC purchases), so I got the second EDP via my wife, and $12k should be good enough for a year. Today I cancelled BCP, after MSing it in the last few years. I think EDP is much better than PRG, which also have effective AF of $95 (after $100 airline rebate). 4.5x for groceries, 3 for gas and 1.5 how everything else is an unbeatable combination. Another card to consider is US Bank Flexperks Visa card, which gives effective 4% cashback on groceries OR gas OR airlines, or the venerable OBC.
In total, I've had my PRG for four or five months and I've received $200 in airline credits, free roadside assistance (value $75), a free room for two nights at a Hilton ($415 value), two tickets to SeaWorld ($100 value), and a free room upgrade (value unknown). You're looking at $790+ value in perks which is something you won't get with EDP unless you spend an insane amount of money.
Mar 23, 2017, 9:39 am
#30
Join Date: Jan 2014
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EDP isn't better than PRG, if you travel, which is what MR points cards are for. The benefits of the PRG outweigh the extra 1.5 points you get at grocery stores (because it's capped at 6k a year and then you only receive 1 MR point per dollar after) and the extra 1 point you get on gas, which is a small spending category. You have to factor in the PRG's 2x on dining and the 3x on airline purchases, which you only get 1.5x on the EDP with the bonus.
In total, I've had my PRG for four or five months and I've received $200 in airline credits, free roadside assistance (value $75), a free room for two nights at a Hilton ($415 value), two tickets to SeaWorld ($100 value), and a free room upgrade (value unknown). You're looking at $790+ value in perks which is something you won't get with EDP unless you spend an insane amount of money.
In total, I've had my PRG for four or five months and I've received $200 in airline credits, free roadside assistance (value $75), a free room for two nights at a Hilton ($415 value), two tickets to SeaWorld ($100 value), and a free room upgrade (value unknown). You're looking at $790+ value in perks which is something you won't get with EDP unless you spend an insane amount of money.
I also have BGR, which I will be upgrading to Biz Platinum.
