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USA EMV cards: Availability, Q&A (Chip & PIN or Signature) [2016]

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Old Jan 15, 2016, 7:26 pm
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Last edit by: philemer
The original, pre-2016, thread can be found here: USA EMV cards: Availability, experiences, Q&A (Chip & PIN -or- Chip & Signature) The thread was split to make searching less onerous.


EMV wikipost volunteers: kebosabi

What is EMV?
EMV is a defacto global standard of technology where there is a visible microchip on the front of the card. It looks like this:

Who issues them?
See Google Docs spreadsheet in Post #1

SFOAMS also has created a list of excellent webpage that shows US EMV cards in a more interactive interface

Another site, which lets you narrow the search for an EMV card by various parameters, is http://www.spotterswiki.com/emv/index.php.

Several credit unions issue some form of Chip-and-PIN credit cards or prepaid cards. Prepaid EMV cards however are not recommended due to junk fees. USAA (currently restricted to members of military) used to offer Chip-and-PIN cards, but as late has backtracked to Chip-and-Signature priority.

Hey that's a cool Google Docs list! I know others that aren't on that list. How can I help by adding them to the list?
My bad for not putting this into the wiki sooner. Right now, the Google Docs is locked out of editing and only in "read-only" view because there were instances in the past where people would just delete the rows not thinking that it affects others viewing the list.

If you promise not to delete any rows and input all the pertinent info (annual fee, rewards, FTF, etc.), I can provide you with edit access. Just shoot me a PM to kebosabi with your gmail address and I'll provide you edit access.

Thanks for helping out!


As of October 2014, no USA-based card issuer offers Chip-and-PIN priority cards except for BMO Harris (Diners Club) and UN Federal Credit Union. Other major USA-based banks such as BofA, Chase, Citi, as well as others issue Chip-and-Signature cards which may work at many automated kiosks. However, bear in mind the word may is used above is a context where there is no absolute certainty of success for certain environments such as automated kiosks due to different natures of offline and online transactions. It is highly recommended to read Post #3 which lists real life FTer examples on how Chip-and-Signature worked and did not work at various transaction environments.

Can I upgrade it right now?
If it's listed on that Google Docs spreadsheet or SFOAMS' Silk page, wouldn't hurt to call/twitter them for a free upgrade. If you get the response you don't like, hang up, try again.

What is the difference between Chip-and-Signature and Chip-and-PIN?
You insert the chipped card into the slot. The physical contact terminal will read the EMV chip and the terminal will automatically read the preferred cardholder verification methods (called CVM) for that card.

Chip-and-Signature means that the terminal will printout a receipt for you to sign. This is the most prevalent authentication for most US issued EMV cards. Chip-and-Signature helps in a way that it will get through to face-to-face merchant transactions where you and the merchant do not speak the same language.

Chip-and-PIN means that the terminal will prompt you to input a PIN for authentication. Some credit union issued credit cards will have this CVM as secondary if Chip-and-Signature cannot be done. Chip-and-PIN is the more prevalent method of authentication used outside the US, especially in transaction environments where no human interaction is needed (i.e. automated gas pumps, toll roads, train kiosks, etc.).

The Google Docs spreadsheet will list which CVM are used in the EMV cards listed. Some cards can only do Chip-and-Signature. Other cards can do both Chip-and-Signature and Chip-and-PIN. And others might have a third option called No CVM (no authentication needed) which is reserved for low value transactions.

One chip can hold a lot more data, therefore it is capable of doing multiple verification methods. That's one of the great things about EMV over the mag-stripe which can hold very little data.

I want to know for sure what my EMV chip does. Is there anyway I can test out my own EMV card to see what the CVM list is?
alexmt has written up a nice step-by-step procedure on Post #3615.

If most of the EMV cards in the US is the Chip-and-Signature type, doesn't that mean it's still useless abroad?
Depends if you see it as glass half empty or glass half full. See Post #3 for further details on how Chip-and-Signature has worked both successfully and unsuccessfully depending on the merchant transaction environment and use your best judgment whether which one is right for you.

Are there any places in the US that are accepting transactions via the EMV chip?
tmiw has created a dedicated Google maps webpage to show where EMV has been proven to work here: http://emvacceptedhere.com/ Per his Post #4240, feel free to add any places with active EMV terminals if you come across one.

As of 2014/05, the EMV terminals in most Walmarts and Sam's Clubs are being turned on. Hence, the best place to try them out would be your local Walmart or Sam's Club. For other merchants, it's slowly being phased in.

I hope people will post them in the Post your receipt of your 1st EMV based transaction in the US thread. cvarming has shown us an EMV transaction receipt from Brooklyn, NY in Post #2380. I myself had my first EMV based (Chip-and-Signature) transaction in two stores in the Los Angeles area, as shown in detail in Post #2705 (courtesy of WhatWhatTech for pointing these two stores out)

I don't want a chip in my card. I heard horror stories all over the media saying hackers can steal my credit card info from a mile away.
There are two types of chips. One is contactless and the other is contact. Cards can be either one or the other, or both.

In the Google Docs spreadsheet, the cards that are capable of contactless payments are listed seperately under the "RFID or NFC contactless chip" column. If it says yes, then that means it has the ability to do contactless payments. If it says no, it doesn't have that feature.

The one that the media has overhyped about hackers "stealing your information wirelessly" was the contactless type like this:

You are worried about this happening, right?

You don't have to worry. EMV is a chip standard that can have both contact and contactless interfaces. With the traditional contact interface, this means you actually have to physically insert the chip into a POS terminal for it to be authorized, like this:

With the contact interface, nothing is wireless. No data is sent out in a stand-alone contact type EMV chip. With the EMV contactless interface, data is sent wirelessly.

Furthermore, contactless chip cards are required to show a symbol (looks like Wi-Fi symbol) somewhere on the card that to denote it's capability as a contactless card. For example, here's an example of a Discover Card with contactless capability (in which Discover calls "Discover ZIP") showing the contactless symbol on the back of the card:

Don't believe everything that the media says. Besides, millions of people all over the world from London to Singapore, uses contactless payments daily in extremely crowded subways and mass transit with nary any problems. There are multiple layers of encrypted securities and keys that are needed to break the code.

Frankly, giving your physical card to a waiter/waitress who takes the card out of your view is much more susceptible to fraud than contactless payments.

Why should I care?
If you are an international traveler, you will want this because majority of the world has or in the process of converting to this payment format.


In fact, in 2012, even North Korea moved to the EMV format, leaving the US as one of the countries in the world that hasn't done so.

In addition, VISA, MC, AMEX, and Discover have all agreed to incentivize the USA shifting to EMV payments by 2015 by shifting liability for fraudulent transactions to merchants if they do not have EMV equipment and the cardholder has an EMV card. So if you travel internationally or would like to get one before the others, you might be interested in getting one.


BS! I had no problems using my card in [insert whereever country], [insert whatever point in time]
If you stick to the tourist path where they have lots of visitors from the US, you should have no problems using your mag-stripe only card in hotels and restaurants, at least for now. But as things can change as things go forward.

However, consider that once you start taking the off-beaten path, go to non-touristy places where they are not familiar with mag-stripes, rent a car and use toll roads, fill up gas, or try to buy train tickets you might end up into a trouble of the machine not recognizing your card because it lacks the chip. Furthermore, a lot of toll roads, gas pumps, and automated ticket machines lack any human assistance to help you when you need it the most.

But [insert credit card company] told me all merchants that display their logo must accept them! All I have to do is report them for violating their agreements, right?
There are several factors against this.

1. You can only speak English. The merchant representative, most likely a part-time clerk earning minimum wage, speaks in a different language, let's say French. If you have no French language skills, how are you going to get your point across? Are you going to whip out your cell phone at exorbitant int'l roaming charges and hope the customer service is going to translate it for you on the spot? Or maybe you might actually know French. But how about Swahili, Farsi, Balinese, or the multiple languages in mainland China?

2. Just like US, the rest of the world's businesses uses part-time minimum wage workers as cashiers to cut down on labor costs. Most of their SOP training manuals are written by MBA types to not to do anything they are not familiar with. Do not expect them to understand the intricate details of credit card mumbo jumbo. You don't expect Taco Bell employees to understand the minute details of Discover-JCB-Union Pay agreements, right? Same thing the other way around: be respectful as a guest in their country, prepare in advance in their ways, avoid being an "ugly American" stereotype.

3. You are a guest in their country. You are a minority. If 99.9% of their country's people and other tourists from around the world uses EMV, do you really think they are going to accomodate the 0.1% of American tourists who only have mag-stripes credit cards?

4. Again, you are a guest in their country. How would you, as an American standing in line, react if a Chinese tourist was clogging up the lines at a local Taco Bell because the clerk doesn't understand the Discover-Union Pay agreement and has trouble communicating between Mandarin spoken by the tourist and English spoken by the Taco Bell clerk? Same way the other way around. You do not want to clog up the lines for everyone. The less hassle, the better.

5. VISA and MC make tons of money from merchants in that country. Say SNCF French Rail. It's a billion dollar company in France. Do you think VISA is going to pull the plug of their relationship with SNCF because SNCF refuses to do mag-stripe processing at their unmanned train station kiosk? Of course not. Be realistic.

6. And lastly, if you're up against an unstaffed toll kiosk, gas pump or train ticket machine, are you going to yell curses at the machine?

But I want my credit card to be able to be used in the US too!
No worries. They have not gotten rid of the mag-stripe on the back of the card for backward compatibility reasons, just like we still have embossed numbers on our cards for backwards compatibility to using those old carbon copy imprinters.

[insert own Hyatt card image front and back together with red arrows pointing to all the backward compatibility features]

You use the chip on the front of the card abroad (for now), and the mag-stripe just like any other card for the US. Basically, you're increasing your credit card's acceptance rate by getting a card that both via the chip and the mag-stripe. You're getting a better deal for free.

And when 2015 comes along and US switches to EMV, you'll be way ahead of everyone else too!


So why did the rest of the world and the US moved/moving toward EMV?
Primarily, due to fraud concerns. You see, the mag-stripe has been with us since the 1950s. It may have been the most high tech thing back in the day, but with the technology that is available today, any shmo can pick up a $100 USB magnetic card skimming device off of eBay and get your credit card info.

And unlike skimming off contactless cards which actually need the person to have l33t programming skills, skimming off a magnetic stripe has become so ubiquitous that nary a day goes about skimming fraud going on somewhere in America, from gas pumps, Michael's stores (2011), Target breaches (2013), restaurant waiters/waitresses, to even McDonald's drive thrus.

https://www.google.com/search?q=skimming+fraud

These type of fraud used to be prevalent in Europe. But once they started switching over to EMV starting over 2 decades ago, this type of fraud went elsewhere. It went over to Asia, Canada and Mexico, Latin America, etc. etc. until they too began implementing EMV to combat skimming fraud. The US is practically the only country left that hasn't done so, therefore all the fraud that used to take place elsewhere is now happening here.


But EMV is old and it's not fool proof. Shouldn't we just skip over it and do something new instead?
Yes, EMV is old. It was developed in the 1990s and its smart card payment predecessor was first introduced in France. But as of today, it has become the defacto global standard of payments.

But then, what else is there? There is no other de facto global standard of payments alternative. For example, if we decide to skip over it and do something new, hypothetically like DNA matching technology, it still means US int'l travelers will continue to have problems abroad with useless plastic acceptance because no other country is using this DNA matching technology except the US.

Besides, nothing is fool proof. You can say that the bank vault isn't fool proof because you can crack it open if enough C4 is used. But your average low-life scumbag isn't likely to get military grade C4 easily either. But the bank vault does make it harder to get the bank's money over say a petty cash box. That's the point here. EMV is akin to a security tight bank vault, the old mag-stripe is akin to a petty cash box lying around inside the drawer.


I'm a business owner and I don't think EMV is going to take off. I'm not going to spend extra hundreds of dollars to upgrade my credit card machine. Convince me other wise why I should.
I can understand the added extra cost to your business once this switchover takes place. But before even saying that, look at your existing POS terminal. Does it have a slot somewhere to insert a card?

Most likely, if you had replaced your POS terminal within the past five years, you already have an EMV capable terminal. EMV is basically just not turned on yet from the processor and acquirer side.

If you have an EMV capable terminal, then a best bet would be to contact your acquirer to have the EMV feature turned on. You did your end of the deal already by having an EMV capable terminal, it is now the acquirers' responsibility to turn it on in accordance to the EMV switchover mandate.

And if you don't, you are going to replace your POS terminal anyway from common wear and tear. It isn't a hard switch-over. You can continue to use your POS terminal until it dies out because EMV cardholders will still have the mag-stripe on the back. And by the time your non-EMV capable POS terminal is up for replacement the market will be full with these newer POS terminals that can accept the mag-stripe, EMV, as well as contactless payments.

In addition, you may also want to check with your acquirer or processor about EMV capable terminals. Some of them are willing to replace your terminal for free in preparation for the US EMV switchover. Call and ask for details.


But what's in it for me? I'm the one that has to pay for the upgrade.
All the major card networks have given incentives for merchants for the upcoming EMV switchover.

If 75% or more of your credit card transactions are done on an EMV contact and contactless terminal, they are going to waive your annual PCI-DSS fees, which usually costs you around $5.00-$19.95/month per terminal. The overall long term cost savings of those compliance fees will be larger than the cost of an one time upgrade for the terminal.

The downside is that once EMV switchover happens and if you do not have a POS terminal that is able to accept EMV, the fraud liability shifts over to the merchant.

I own several fast food franchises. If I upgrade my POS terminals at all of my restaurants, it's going to cost me thousands, if not millions. I don't think anyone is going to use a fake credit card to buy $5 burgers. And if they do, wouldn't it be cheaper for me to eat the fraud cost?
Remember also that fraud isn't just committed by dishonest customers using fraudulent cards. Fraud can also happen with dishonest employees skimming off credit card data from the mag-stripe as in the case of a teenage McDonald's drive thru employee skimming off $13,000 of customers' credit cards in Olympia, WA. Consider the public relations fall out that your business may have if this happens (i.e. the big Target breach of 2013, where someone used a mag stripe card to load malware INTO Target's system). Is it worth risking to take such a huge PR disaster?
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USA EMV cards: Availability, Q&A (Chip & PIN or Signature) [2016]

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Old Jan 7, 2016, 7:21 pm
  #76  
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Originally Posted by RedLight2015
This happens to me at a Chinese restaurant too and it bothers me to no end. I wish FD would fix this.
Durbin routing is up to the merchant, so I would think this is something they would have to fix. If they have never accepted debit until now, it's possible enabling it was accidental or an unintended consequence of switching merchant acquirers.
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Old Jan 8, 2016, 4:05 am
  #77  
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Originally Posted by lordsutch
Also, both transactions seem to have been run on the same terminal network ("ATH"), whose brand appears on the receipts.
ATH is apparently Puerto Rico's debit network. They have a partnership with NYCE like what Interac up in Canada has, which makes me think that most debit cards from the mainland will end up running as credit when in PR.
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Old Jan 9, 2016, 8:24 am
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I tried to use Apple pay yesterday at CVS. It instructed me since I have a chip card I would have to insert the card. I did so and the pay went through. This is the first time that has happened to me. I thought it very strange that it would not take Apple pay like others do. All of my cards on Apple pay are chipped cards.
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Old Jan 9, 2016, 8:55 am
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Originally Posted by powerlifter
I tried to use Apple pay yesterday at CVS. It instructed me since I have a chip card I would have to insert the card. I did so and the pay went through. This is the first time that has happened to me. I thought it very strange that it would not take Apple pay like others do. All of my cards on Apple pay are chipped cards.
CVS is still turning on their Apple Pay. They originally disabled it last year because of their lame MCX membership. They are finally reenabling it (with EMV contactless support) in the coming weeks.
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Old Jan 9, 2016, 5:24 pm
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Originally Posted by powerlifter
I tried to use Apple pay yesterday at CVS. It instructed me since I have a chip card I would have to insert the card. I did so and the pay went through. This is the first time that has happened to me. I thought it very strange that it would not take Apple pay like others do. All of my cards on Apple pay are chipped cards.
I had the same experience with Android Pay, so I used my chip card and ran it as credit, eat it CVS.(until they turn on Contactless)
Originally Posted by RedLight2015
CVS is still turning on their Apple Pay. They originally disabled it last year because of their lame MCX membership. They are finally reenabling it (with EMV contactless support) in the coming weeks.
Have you heard anything new, or is that what you think will happen? I believe it as well, I went to CVS today and even the NFC reader is only active after they press the card button or w/e which also activates the chip and swipe readers as well. If they wanted to not support it they would not have bought those top readers and it would not be setup the way it is, so what I am wondering is what is the hold up? I wonder if they want to get MX925's in all stores before going live company wide?

Also my local Whole Foods does accept EMV cards at some registers at least I went to one with the EMV Stickers on it and it asked for Visa Debit (Credit) or US Debit so I pressed Credit and it asked if the amount was correct then went through. Oh my it really is faster to just tap with a phone especially if you have a fingerprint reader on your phone. Trader Joe's asked the same questions as Whole Foods.
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Old Jan 9, 2016, 9:04 pm
  #81  
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At Ralph's today:



(bottom says "Please Slide Card")

On the other hand, I hope that switching back to magstripe-only terminals doesn't become a trend. So far I've heard of two smaller places doing it and CVS doing so at some locations just for the holidays, which wouldn't necessarily be an issue except for the fact that I've also heard a lot of "chip adds nothing for security" talk too from customers. From their perspective the change is a negative one since cards take longer to run for no visible benefit. It doesn't help that a lot of places still don't support it, so cards are still being cloned.

Would adding a PIN change that thinking? Maybe. On the other hand, people are using "chip and PIN" and "chip and signature" interchangeably and might not see much of a difference between them. Meaning that videos such as this one:


might cause some to write off the whole thing regardless of what's done, despite the fact that there are workarounds to fix the issues.

I'm not so sure people will wholeheartedly switch to contactless either. We're dealing with a retail environment that would rather most people switch back to cash than have people use something that makes cards less of a hassle and shuts them out of data gathering. Not to mention that customers are still hesitant of any form of wireless payment even if it's phone-based, not that it's available anyway* without paying $300+ for a supporting device.

* With a few exceptions, as have been mentioned here before.
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Old Jan 9, 2016, 10:54 pm
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I am beginning to wonder if some places are not going to bother turning on EMV and just keep swiping.

Last week, Safeway locally with old non-EMV pinpads still implemented a new policy for all credit cards over $50 you have to give the card to the cashier and they have to input the last 4 numbers and check the signature (the policy they gave out says to compare signature between card and slip and ask for ID if the card is unsigned, signatures do not match, or if the card is manually keyed). They have no way to check the signature since when you sign it just goes away, so I am expecting some ID violations to pop up with them soon. I am not sure if this is at locations with the newer registers too but from what I saw it looks like this policy is in effect in all northern California locations (includes Hawaii and a few in Nevada also).

I also noticed Sears has started wanting the last 4 numbers on all credit cards but Kmart has not implemented this for some reason (different registers but still interesting).

I am beginning to wonder if some retailers are opting on this "check of the last 4 digits" method to combat cloned cards and will bypass EMV.

I still think the banks and retailers should do a hard push on Contactless. It allows for the best end-user experience. It is most efficient, it does not damage the card or wear out the card, it does not allow skimming, etc.

I feel customers are really resisting the chip and the main reason seems to be the slower transaction processing. Whether the Chip is more secure or not does not matter, perception is everything, and customers don't think the Chips are any more secure, just slow and a hassle. What is funny is these same customers often have no problem wasting 20-30 seconds showing a cashier ID and think that makes them safer. It is very safe to show all of your personal information and full card number to a random cashier and if they are held or sit at the right angle, also have those recorded by the store's security cameras which are accessible by who knows who. The safest is chip, pin, and the cashier never touching or seeing your card or any of your personal information.
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Old Jan 9, 2016, 11:17 pm
  #83  
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Originally Posted by storewanderer
I am beginning to wonder if some places are not going to bother turning on EMV and just keep swiping.

Last week, Safeway locally with old non-EMV pinpads still implemented a new policy for all credit cards over $50 you have to give the card to the cashier and they have to input the last 4 numbers and check the signature (the policy they gave out says to compare signature between card and slip and ask for ID if the card is unsigned, signatures do not match, or if the card is manually keyed). They have no way to check the signature since when you sign it just goes away, so I am expecting some ID violations to pop up with them soon. I am not sure if this is at locations with the newer registers too but from what I saw it looks like this policy is in effect in all northern California locations (includes Hawaii and a few in Nevada also).

I also noticed Sears has started wanting the last 4 numbers on all credit cards but Kmart has not implemented this for some reason (different registers but still interesting).

I am beginning to wonder if some retailers are opting on this "check of the last 4 digits" method to combat cloned cards and will bypass EMV.

I still think the banks and retailers should do a hard push on Contactless. It allows for the best end-user experience. It is most efficient, it does not damage the card or wear out the card, it does not allow skimming, etc.

I feel customers are really resisting the chip and the main reason seems to be the slower transaction processing. Whether the Chip is more secure or not does not matter, perception is everything, and customers don't think the Chips are any more secure, just slow and a hassle. What is funny is these same customers often have no problem wasting 20-30 seconds showing a cashier ID and think that makes them safer. It is very safe to show all of your personal information and full card number to a random cashier and if they are held or sit at the right angle, also have those recorded by the store's security cameras which are accessible by who knows who. The safest is chip, pin, and the cashier never touching or seeing your card or any of your personal information.
This sounds like a stopgap measure until final EMV certification comes through, much more so than an attempt to avoid EMV altogether. Places with electronic stylus based signatures really can't check signature, and I really can't see harried shoppers at Safeway in these cases being forced to pull out identification.
In reality, I see only the last four digits of the card being used; the clerks I know would likely be fine if you read them from your mobile phone for contactless transactions (Samsung Pay).
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Old Jan 9, 2016, 11:22 pm
  #84  
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Originally Posted by storewanderer
I am beginning to wonder if some places are not going to bother turning on EMV and just keep swiping.

Last week, Safeway locally with old non-EMV pinpads still implemented a new policy for all credit cards over $50 you have to give the card to the cashier and they have to input the last 4 numbers and check the signature (the policy they gave out says to compare signature between card and slip and ask for ID if the card is unsigned, signatures do not match, or if the card is manually keyed). They have no way to check the signature since when you sign it just goes away, so I am expecting some ID violations to pop up with them soon. I am not sure if this is at locations with the newer registers too but from what I saw it looks like this policy is in effect in all northern California locations (includes Hawaii and a few in Nevada also).

I also noticed Sears has started wanting the last 4 numbers on all credit cards but Kmart has not implemented this for some reason (different registers but still interesting).

I am beginning to wonder if some retailers are opting on this "check of the last 4 digits" method to combat cloned cards and will bypass EMV.
Except that Safeway et al have deployed newer EMV-capable PIN pads in at least some locations. If they didn't want to bother with EMV at all, why upgrade in the first place? It sounds more likely that their EMV projects are even more delayed than originally suspected and that the liability shift is really beginning to affect them.

Originally Posted by storewanderer
I still think the banks and retailers should do a hard push on Contactless. It allows for the best end-user experience. It is most efficient, it does not damage the card or wear out the card, it does not allow skimming, etc.
Most retailers don't want to since it will prevent the data gathering they've gotten so used to doing. And even if that wasn't a concern for them, US retailers as a bloc resent the major card brands far more than those elsewhere. I feel like that for some, EMV would actually be a good thing as it could make card use painful enough that people will abandon them for most purchases and thus cut down on their swipe fees.

This doesn't get into the whole thing about Americans believing that contactless in physical card form is less secure than magstripe, nor how phone-based payments aren't really catching on. Even in a mature contactless market like Australia, phones aren't used for payments often. And considering the problems that the early adopters of the Pays have had, a fair number of possible users might have been permanently scared away from ever attempting it again.

Originally Posted by storewanderer
I feel customers are really resisting the chip and the main reason seems to be the slower transaction processing. Whether the Chip is more secure or not does not matter, perception is everything, and customers don't think the Chips are any more secure, just slow and a hassle. What is funny is these same customers often have no problem wasting 20-30 seconds showing a cashier ID and think that makes them safer. It is very safe to show all of your personal information and full card number to a random cashier and if they are held or sit at the right angle, also have those recorded by the store's security cameras which are accessible by who knows who. The safest is chip, pin, and the cashier never touching or seeing your card or any of your personal information.
Showing ID, even if not that effective, is at least something that's done before the card's run. Signature? Not so much. I don't think it's ever taken more than a couple of seconds when I've been asked to show my ID; I think they just look to see if the name matches with what's on the card and quickly glance at the photograph.

BTW someone on another forum posted something interesting about Discover's chip recently. I don't think this will amount to much since their public documents still say the card's signature-only, but I had to report my card lost recently so I guess I'll be able to confirm for sure soon.

Last edited by tmiw; Jan 9, 2016 at 11:32 pm Reason: added link to post on forum
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Old Jan 10, 2016, 2:49 am
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Originally Posted by tmiw
I'm not so sure people will wholeheartedly switch to contactless either. We're dealing with a retail environment that would rather most people switch back to cash than have people use something that makes cards less of a hassle and shuts them out of data gathering.
Doesn't using cash also shut retailers out of data gathering?

Originally Posted by storewanderer
I feel customers are really resisting the chip and the main reason seems to be the slower transaction processing. Whether the Chip is more secure or not does not matter, perception is everything, and customers don't think the Chips are any more secure, just slow and a hassle. What is funny is these same customers often have no problem wasting 20-30 seconds showing a cashier ID and think that makes them safer. It is very safe to show all of your personal information and full card number to a random cashier and if they are held or sit at the right angle, also have those recorded by the store's security cameras which are accessible by who knows who. The safest is chip, pin, and the cashier never touching or seeing your card or any of your personal information.
I noticed the process at Walmart seems to be faster now. I also noticed our local Bed, Bath, and Beyond (still swipe only) has signs up requiring ID "for security purposes" for transactions over $100. I still don't understand people who think that showing ID makes them safer yet EMV transactions are the worst thing ever.
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Old Jan 10, 2016, 10:20 am
  #86  
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Originally Posted by Majuki
Doesn't using cash also shut retailers out of data gathering?
Yes, but they also keep the x% that they would have otherwise paid to their acquirer/Visa/MC, which considering how unhappy Walmart, etc. continue to be despite Durbin, might be a fair trade.
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Old Jan 10, 2016, 10:29 am
  #87  
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I was at the UPS Store a few days ago, they had a sign on the terminal saying chip reader is not active. As an aside, one of my EMV cards was compromised. In full disclosure, it may have been stolen online, but I used it mostly in-person.
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Old Jan 10, 2016, 10:50 am
  #88  
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Originally Posted by Majuki
Doesn't using cash also shut retailers out of data gathering?



I noticed the process at Walmart seems to be faster now. I also noticed our local Bed, Bath, and Beyond (still swipe only) has signs up requiring ID "for security purposes" for transactions over $100. I still don't understand people who think that showing ID makes them safer yet EMV transactions are the worst thing ever.
Isn't it that the magnetic stripe thieves have ID that matches the card, so that by the time the unsuspecting victim sees the charge on their account there's no real way of tracing back to the fake name? Moreover, these people probably use a fake ID that would fool most cashiers in the first place!
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Old Jan 10, 2016, 11:14 am
  #89  
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Originally Posted by Points Scrounger
Isn't it that the magnetic stripe thieves have ID that matches the card, so that by the time the unsuspecting victim sees the charge on their account there's no real way of tracing back to the fake name? Moreover, these people probably use a fake ID that would fool most cashiers in the first place!
A fake ID will probably be more difficult to create once Real ID takes full effect, for what it's worth. One of the requirements IIRC is RFID capability--pretty difficult to clone right now without hacking into the DMV.
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Old Jan 10, 2016, 11:34 am
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Originally Posted by tmiw
A fake ID will probably be more difficult to create once Real ID takes full effect, for what it's worth. One of the requirements IIRC is RFID capability--pretty difficult to clone right now without hacking into the DMV.
Even today's licenses are very difficult to create convincing fakes. Same with magnetic stripe credit cards. Thieves don't make convincing fakes. They make fakes a teenager who doesn't give a darn don't notice. EMV automates the detection of fakes, if you want to think of it that way.
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