Jan 18, 2014, 10:10 pm
Last edit by: emilio911
What is it?
Dynamic Currency Conversion (DCC) is a "service" some merchants and ATM operators offer that will charge a cardholder in the native currency of the card rather than the local currency. A more complete definition and examples are available via this Wikipedia article on DCC. While sold as a convenience to cardholders traveling outside of their home country, it is a pure profit play by the merchants. You may end up paying a fee of up to 8% over the purchase price for accepting DCC. Always decline DCC and asked to be billed in the local currency!
Where will I see it?
You can be hit with DCC anywhere there is a difference between your debit or credit card's denominated currency and the currency of the location where you're trying to use the card. The most common example will be at a merchant overseas, but now some ATMs are offering the service too. While many US cardholders complain about getting tricked into accepting DCC overseas, some merchants in the US have started to use DCC as well.
What is the issue?
Unless you're the merchant or ATM operator, there isn't much benefit to using DCC. Some customers say they prefer knowing exactly how much they'll be charged in their home currency or may not know the exchange rate of the place where they are visiting. For example, if you are in Prague for two days and you don't know how much the Czech Koruna is worth relative to the US Dollar, you might feel more comfortable knowing that you're buying an item for $205.00 versus 4000 CZK. However, the real exchange rate as of January 18, 2014 would place 4000 CZK at $197.18. You just paid an extra $7.82 for the "convenience" of knowing how much you'd be charged!
DCC often charges about a 4% premium over the true exchange rate. The problems don't stop there since many US banks still charge a 3% foreign transaction fee (FTF) for purchases made outside of the US. Not only would you get hit with the $205.00 charge, you could also find yourself facing a total charge of $211.15 if your card has a 3% FTF.
This is a pure money grab from the merchants, and it's billed as an easy way to squeeze additional revenue out of the transaction. Numerous [1, 2] articles have talked about DCC duping many consumers. Discover even has a warning about being tricked into DCC when using a card abroad.
For example, this FlyerTalk member reported that Avis charged his Saudi credit card in Saudi riyals instead of USD for a car rental in Florida without his consent. This has also been a trend for hotels, particularly large chains as indicated here and here.
DCC is simply not worth it for the consumer. Unless you like paying a convenience fee of up to 5% of the total transaction just to know how much you will be billed, you should always decline DCC and ask to be billed in local currency when handing over your card.
Furthermore, it is in your interest to obtain a card that has a 0% FTF. FlyerTalk member kebosabi maintains a fairly comprehensive spreadsheet of EMV-enabled cards ideal for overseas travel, many of which offer a low or 0% FTF as a feature. There is also a wiki at FlyerGuide of various FTF of debit and credit cards.
What can I do to avoid DCC?
American Express currently does not support DCC on its network, so you are safe from DCC if using an American Express card. However, Visa and MasterCard card networks can support DCC, so be vigilant when purchasing abroad with a Visa or MasterCard branded card. There have been reports of being charged DCC with a Discover card in China [citation needed], but primarily the issue is happening with Visa and MasterCard cards.
Before handing your card to the merchant, always specify clearly that you want to be charged in the local currency and that you do not want DCC. For some transactions, you retain control of your card as you dip it into a chip reader and can view on a screen to select which currency you want to use for the transaction. Always select the local currencyto get the best exchange rate. Do not select the card's native currency!
Similarly, for ATM withdrawals, make sure you decline any kind of conversions. Some good examples of what to look for when using an ATM overseas are here and here. You're probably coming off of a long flight and fatigued, but educating yourself beforehand can save you from getting ripped off. The user interfaces on almost all of these ATMs are set up to encourage you to take the bait, and you have to be extremely vigilant not to fall for it.
If you are doing a PIN-based transaction, you should have the opportunity to review the total amount and denomination of the transaction before entering your PIN. If you are doing a signature transaction and the merchant has processed your transaction with DCC, cross out the amount and write "DCC refused" on the receipt. Do not sign the receipt, and demand that the merchant reverse the transaction and run it in the local currency. If no verification is required due to a small purchase amount, ask the merchant to reverse the charge and repeat the transaction using local currency. If all else fails, file a dispute with your card issuer when you return home. Even if it's immaterial, the banks will get the message like they did with EMV.
Some merchants will claim that their systems have to bill you in your native currency. This is a complete lie. But just like a mag stripe only card, this is battle where you have to be prepared. Don't settle for merchants claiming that "it has to be done this way" or "pay cash if you don't want this". Be prepared to walk away, and, if you must complete the transaction, write "DCC refused & merchant didn't give a choice" on the receipt and cross out the amount. Let the merchant know that you will be filing a dispute with your bank.
Disabling DCC
Disabling DCC on ANZ terminals in Australia
ANZ markets DCC as Customer Preferred Currency (CPC). Terminal operators can contact ANZ Merchant Services at 1800 039 025 to have this feature disabled. Currently, your Visa or MasterCard will be subjected to DCC if denominated in: CAD, CHF, DKK, EUR, GBP, HKD, JPY, MYR, NOK, NZD, SEK, SGD, THB, USD, or ZAR. All DCC transactions on ANZ will cause a 2.5% markup. Steps to avoid DCC:
If you see a signature slip with DCC verbiage and a checkbox indicating a currency selection, kindly ask the merchant to void the transaction. If it's a PIN-based transaction, you have an additional opportunity to cancel the transaction because it will ask for your PIN a second time. For instance, if you see "EUR 17.29 KEY PIN" refuse to enter your PIN and start again.
Disabling DCC in China
There are many reports of forced DCC in China, and there is a great thread [closed to new posts] on DCC in China on the the China Destinations forum.
Disabling DCC on Bankcomm terminals in Beijing http://www.hongkongcard.com/forum/fo...p?id=12272&p=2 #19
jair101's DCC instructions of March 2011 http://www.etveg.com/misc/DCC_China.pdf
Disabling DCC in Eurozone and UK
DCC offered in tourist traps (Harrods Knightsbridge/Galleries Lafayette Montparnesse/El Cortes Ingles Grand Via Madrid)
Unlike the rest of the world, Visa Europe does not require merchants to collect a ticked box on the slip (presumably because merchants there don't keep signed slips under Chip-and-PIN)
El Cortes Ingles collects a signature electronically and the DCC selection is made on the signature pad - the choice is respected.
Harrods and GL rely on cashier input in the POS for the currency choice - the cashier may forget to ask. The POS do not offer voiding (only refunds), but since you're given a slip to sign the best thing to do is to deface it before signing and submit chargeback request to issuer bank on return home.
There may be smaller merchants who also collect DCC but I seemed to have pre-empted most of them by saying "charge Euros (Pounds) please"
In Spain all merchants by law are required to provide you with a complaint form called an hoja de reclamaciones if requested. The form has two carbon copies. The customer retains one copy as a record of the complaint. The merchant maintains another copy, and the third is sent to the local consumer protection bureau. Merchants are also required to post a sign conspicuously informing the customer of the right to complain (usually in Spanish and English). Do not accept the lie that they don't have any forms. This is illegal, and you are able to call the police if the merchant refuses to provide you with this official form. It's interesting to see merchants start to squirm when you know the rules, and most merchants will start to be accommodating after you mention it. (Please still fill out the form even if the merchant cooperates after mentioning it because these are likely the merchants who won't otherwise change their behavior.)
Disabling DCC in Hong Kong and Macau
Hong Kong and Macau can get as non-compliant as China, possibly because many acquirers have cross-border operations and know they can get away with non-compliant firmware and procedures.
In practice, if you are given a DCC slip, and the cashier has not taken a choice before giving you your copy, the slip will be processed in your home currency - be prepared to dispute.
Unable to disable Global Payments DCC in Hong Kong instance #1, instance #2
Unable to disable DBS DCC in Fortress Electronics HK
Unable to disable BoC DCC in Free Duty HK
Disabling DCC in Japan and Korea
Japan's just starting out http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/japan...ing-japan.html and http://www.hongkongcard.com/forum/fo...p?id=3939&p=17 #168 but there are no reports I know of where cardholders are compelled to use DCC against their will.
Korea is also not much affected by DCC but where offered, trying to opt out is harder than Japan due to the language barrier (both verbal and written)
http://www.hongkongcard.com/forum/fo...hp?id=4303&p=3 #23
http://www.hongkongcard.com/forum/fo...p?id=12272&p=2 #11
Disabling DCC in the Maldives
Disabling DCC on Global Payment terminals in the Maldives
Disabling DCC in Thailand and Taiwan
DCC present but generally not an issue. Cashier will generate quote slip is usually generated and pass to cardholder. When cardholder refuses, a verbage-free slip denominated in THB/TWD will be produced.
Certain Taiwan hotels may take deposits in cardholder currency. But these are only pre-authorisations and can be voided in full for TWD-only final checkout payments.
Disabling DCC on Websites
Airbnb - (Since the "loophole" seem not to work anymore, please report if you chargeback the DCC.
)
Hotwire - You need to select your preferred currency before making a search.
PayPal - The instructions to stop the DCC on a recurring charge are here.
I got duped by DCC already before I found this thread. Is there anything I can do?
If you've been hit with DCC and the merchant did not follow the Visa/MC rules, you should file a dispute with your card issuer. Even if the transaction is a small amount, it's worth it to dispute the charge on principle. Do not let merchants get away with this scam uncontested!
If you were not clearly given a choice of currencies and did not specifically communicate a preference to be billed in your card's native currency - if you did not accept DCC - then you have recourse when filing a dispute with your card issuer. The Visa Product and Service Rules clearly state (p 339):
You can even use terminology from Visa Product and Service Rules when filing the dispute, giving Reason Code 76: Incorrect Currency or Transaction Code. Reason Code 76 is used when the transaction was processed with an incorrect transaction code, or an incorrect currency code, or one of the following:
MasterCard's rules also clearly state that the POI Currency Conversion must be decided by both the merchant and customer. When filing a dispute with a MasterCard, list chargeback Reason Code 4846 from the MasterCard Chargeback Guide, which covers POI currency conversion disputes in the following circumstances:
You do have a choice of currencies. Exercise that choice!
Do not get taken by surprise when faced with DCC, and know your options. As Visa/MC purport, you do have a choice of currencies, but you need to make that choice heard! Don't be complacent in this sneaky tactic by some merchants to pad revenues.
Before going to a different country, get educated. Understand the exchange rate relative to your native currency. Know how to recognize when the merchant is trying to force DCC on the transaction, and pull out all of the stops to make sure it doesn't happen to you.
If you have a chip-and-PIN credit card, it's easier to control the transaction to try to prevent DCC. With chip-and-signature, if you get an uncooperative merchant, deface the merchant's copy of the receipt. Write LOCAL OPTION NOT OFFERED, cross out the DCC currency amount, and sign the receipt.
This will give additional evidence when filing a dispute to get the DCC charges refunded. When filing the dispute, you can use the Visa Exchange Rate Calculator or MasterCard's Currency Conversion Tool to determine the Visa or MasterCard exchange rate on the date the transaction posted to your credit card. Compare this to the DCC value to figure out the amount by which the merchant overcharged you. Don't forget to add in any Foreign Transaction Fee if your card has one. (If it does, you should really consider finding a card for use overseas without a FTF.)
Example Images (click for a larger image)
Hotel receipts in China, the Netherlands, and Dubai respectively:
Purchase receipts in China and Korea:
Cancelled translation in Hong Kong:
Novotel in Shenzen:
Dynamic Currency Conversion (DCC) is a "service" some merchants and ATM operators offer that will charge a cardholder in the native currency of the card rather than the local currency. A more complete definition and examples are available via this Wikipedia article on DCC. While sold as a convenience to cardholders traveling outside of their home country, it is a pure profit play by the merchants. You may end up paying a fee of up to 8% over the purchase price for accepting DCC. Always decline DCC and asked to be billed in the local currency!
Where will I see it?
You can be hit with DCC anywhere there is a difference between your debit or credit card's denominated currency and the currency of the location where you're trying to use the card. The most common example will be at a merchant overseas, but now some ATMs are offering the service too. While many US cardholders complain about getting tricked into accepting DCC overseas, some merchants in the US have started to use DCC as well.
What is the issue?
Unless you're the merchant or ATM operator, there isn't much benefit to using DCC. Some customers say they prefer knowing exactly how much they'll be charged in their home currency or may not know the exchange rate of the place where they are visiting. For example, if you are in Prague for two days and you don't know how much the Czech Koruna is worth relative to the US Dollar, you might feel more comfortable knowing that you're buying an item for $205.00 versus 4000 CZK. However, the real exchange rate as of January 18, 2014 would place 4000 CZK at $197.18. You just paid an extra $7.82 for the "convenience" of knowing how much you'd be charged!
DCC often charges about a 4% premium over the true exchange rate. The problems don't stop there since many US banks still charge a 3% foreign transaction fee (FTF) for purchases made outside of the US. Not only would you get hit with the $205.00 charge, you could also find yourself facing a total charge of $211.15 if your card has a 3% FTF.
This is a pure money grab from the merchants, and it's billed as an easy way to squeeze additional revenue out of the transaction. Numerous [1, 2] articles have talked about DCC duping many consumers. Discover even has a warning about being tricked into DCC when using a card abroad.
For example, this FlyerTalk member reported that Avis charged his Saudi credit card in Saudi riyals instead of USD for a car rental in Florida without his consent. This has also been a trend for hotels, particularly large chains as indicated here and here.
DCC is simply not worth it for the consumer. Unless you like paying a convenience fee of up to 5% of the total transaction just to know how much you will be billed, you should always decline DCC and ask to be billed in local currency when handing over your card.
Furthermore, it is in your interest to obtain a card that has a 0% FTF. FlyerTalk member kebosabi maintains a fairly comprehensive spreadsheet of EMV-enabled cards ideal for overseas travel, many of which offer a low or 0% FTF as a feature. There is also a wiki at FlyerGuide of various FTF of debit and credit cards.
What can I do to avoid DCC?
American Express currently does not support DCC on its network, so you are safe from DCC if using an American Express card. However, Visa and MasterCard card networks can support DCC, so be vigilant when purchasing abroad with a Visa or MasterCard branded card. There have been reports of being charged DCC with a Discover card in China [citation needed], but primarily the issue is happening with Visa and MasterCard cards.
Before handing your card to the merchant, always specify clearly that you want to be charged in the local currency and that you do not want DCC. For some transactions, you retain control of your card as you dip it into a chip reader and can view on a screen to select which currency you want to use for the transaction. Always select the local currencyto get the best exchange rate. Do not select the card's native currency!
Similarly, for ATM withdrawals, make sure you decline any kind of conversions. Some good examples of what to look for when using an ATM overseas are here and here. You're probably coming off of a long flight and fatigued, but educating yourself beforehand can save you from getting ripped off. The user interfaces on almost all of these ATMs are set up to encourage you to take the bait, and you have to be extremely vigilant not to fall for it.
If you are doing a PIN-based transaction, you should have the opportunity to review the total amount and denomination of the transaction before entering your PIN. If you are doing a signature transaction and the merchant has processed your transaction with DCC, cross out the amount and write "DCC refused" on the receipt. Do not sign the receipt, and demand that the merchant reverse the transaction and run it in the local currency. If no verification is required due to a small purchase amount, ask the merchant to reverse the charge and repeat the transaction using local currency. If all else fails, file a dispute with your card issuer when you return home. Even if it's immaterial, the banks will get the message like they did with EMV.
Some merchants will claim that their systems have to bill you in your native currency. This is a complete lie. But just like a mag stripe only card, this is battle where you have to be prepared. Don't settle for merchants claiming that "it has to be done this way" or "pay cash if you don't want this". Be prepared to walk away, and, if you must complete the transaction, write "DCC refused & merchant didn't give a choice" on the receipt and cross out the amount. Let the merchant know that you will be filing a dispute with your bank.
Disabling DCC
Disabling DCC on ANZ terminals in Australia
ANZ markets DCC as Customer Preferred Currency (CPC). Terminal operators can contact ANZ Merchant Services at 1800 039 025 to have this feature disabled. Currently, your Visa or MasterCard will be subjected to DCC if denominated in: CAD, CHF, DKK, EUR, GBP, HKD, JPY, MYR, NOK, NZD, SEK, SGD, THB, USD, or ZAR. All DCC transactions on ANZ will cause a 2.5% markup. Steps to avoid DCC:
- Insert, swipe, or tap your payment card
- Have the cashier select credit (CR)
- The terminal will display CREDIT ACCOUNT
- If applicable, enter your PIN
- The terminal will display PROCESSING \ PLEASE WAIT
- The terminal will display EXCH <exchange rate> \ <currency> <amount> \ ACCEPT RATE? \ ENTER=YES CLR=NO
- Instruct the cashier to press the yellow CLEAR (CLR) button (If entering a PIN, you can retain the terminal to perform this step yourself. If entering a signature, you can ask for the terminal to control this process, not indicating that it's a chip-and-signature card.)
- The transaction should now process without DCC
If you see a signature slip with DCC verbiage and a checkbox indicating a currency selection, kindly ask the merchant to void the transaction. If it's a PIN-based transaction, you have an additional opportunity to cancel the transaction because it will ask for your PIN a second time. For instance, if you see "EUR 17.29 KEY PIN" refuse to enter your PIN and start again.
Disabling DCC in China
There are many reports of forced DCC in China, and there is a great thread [closed to new posts] on DCC in China on the the China Destinations forum.
Disabling DCC on Bankcomm terminals in Beijing http://www.hongkongcard.com/forum/fo...p?id=12272&p=2 #19
jair101's DCC instructions of March 2011 http://www.etveg.com/misc/DCC_China.pdf
Disabling DCC in Eurozone and UK
DCC offered in tourist traps (Harrods Knightsbridge/Galleries Lafayette Montparnesse/El Cortes Ingles Grand Via Madrid)
Unlike the rest of the world, Visa Europe does not require merchants to collect a ticked box on the slip (presumably because merchants there don't keep signed slips under Chip-and-PIN)
El Cortes Ingles collects a signature electronically and the DCC selection is made on the signature pad - the choice is respected.
Harrods and GL rely on cashier input in the POS for the currency choice - the cashier may forget to ask. The POS do not offer voiding (only refunds), but since you're given a slip to sign the best thing to do is to deface it before signing and submit chargeback request to issuer bank on return home.
There may be smaller merchants who also collect DCC but I seemed to have pre-empted most of them by saying "charge Euros (Pounds) please"
In Spain all merchants by law are required to provide you with a complaint form called an hoja de reclamaciones if requested. The form has two carbon copies. The customer retains one copy as a record of the complaint. The merchant maintains another copy, and the third is sent to the local consumer protection bureau. Merchants are also required to post a sign conspicuously informing the customer of the right to complain (usually in Spanish and English). Do not accept the lie that they don't have any forms. This is illegal, and you are able to call the police if the merchant refuses to provide you with this official form. It's interesting to see merchants start to squirm when you know the rules, and most merchants will start to be accommodating after you mention it. (Please still fill out the form even if the merchant cooperates after mentioning it because these are likely the merchants who won't otherwise change their behavior.)
Disabling DCC in Hong Kong and Macau
Hong Kong and Macau can get as non-compliant as China, possibly because many acquirers have cross-border operations and know they can get away with non-compliant firmware and procedures.
In practice, if you are given a DCC slip, and the cashier has not taken a choice before giving you your copy, the slip will be processed in your home currency - be prepared to dispute.
Unable to disable Global Payments DCC in Hong Kong instance #1, instance #2
Unable to disable DBS DCC in Fortress Electronics HK
Unable to disable BoC DCC in Free Duty HK
Disabling DCC in Japan and Korea
Japan's just starting out http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/japan...ing-japan.html and http://www.hongkongcard.com/forum/fo...p?id=3939&p=17 #168 but there are no reports I know of where cardholders are compelled to use DCC against their will.
Korea is also not much affected by DCC but where offered, trying to opt out is harder than Japan due to the language barrier (both verbal and written)
http://www.hongkongcard.com/forum/fo...hp?id=4303&p=3 #23
http://www.hongkongcard.com/forum/fo...p?id=12272&p=2 #11
Disabling DCC in the Maldives
Disabling DCC on Global Payment terminals in the Maldives
Disabling DCC in Thailand and Taiwan
DCC present but generally not an issue. Cashier will generate quote slip is usually generated and pass to cardholder. When cardholder refuses, a verbage-free slip denominated in THB/TWD will be produced.
Certain Taiwan hotels may take deposits in cardholder currency. But these are only pre-authorisations and can be voided in full for TWD-only final checkout payments.
Disabling DCC on Websites
Airbnb - (Since the "loophole" seem not to work anymore, please report if you chargeback the DCC.
)Hotwire - You need to select your preferred currency before making a search.
PayPal - The instructions to stop the DCC on a recurring charge are here.
I got duped by DCC already before I found this thread. Is there anything I can do?
If you've been hit with DCC and the merchant did not follow the Visa/MC rules, you should file a dispute with your card issuer. Even if the transaction is a small amount, it's worth it to dispute the charge on principle. Do not let merchants get away with this scam uncontested!
If you were not clearly given a choice of currencies and did not specifically communicate a preference to be billed in your card's native currency - if you did not accept DCC - then you have recourse when filing a dispute with your card issuer. The Visa Product and Service Rules clearly state (p 339):
- Merchants that offer DCC must be compliant with the regulations
- Inform the cardholder that DCC is optional
- Not impose any additional requirements to use local currency
- Not use any language or procedures that may cause the cardholder to choose DCC by default
- Not convert a transaction in the local currency to the card's billing currency after the transaction has completed
- Ensure that the cardholder expressly agrees to DCC
You can even use terminology from Visa Product and Service Rules when filing the dispute, giving Reason Code 76: Incorrect Currency or Transaction Code. Reason Code 76 is used when the transaction was processed with an incorrect transaction code, or an incorrect currency code, or one of the following:
- Merchant did not deposit a transaction receipt in the country where the transaction occurred
- Cardholder was not advised that Dynamic Currency Conversion (DCC) would occur
- Cardholder was refused the choice of paying in the merchant’s local currency
- Merchant processed a credit refund and did not process a reversal or adjustment within 30 calendar days for a transaction receipt processed in error
MasterCard's rules also clearly state that the POI Currency Conversion must be decided by both the merchant and customer. When filing a dispute with a MasterCard, list chargeback Reason Code 4846 from the MasterCard Chargeback Guide, which covers POI currency conversion disputes in the following circumstances:
- The cardholder states that he or she was not given the opportunity to choose the desired currency in which the transactions was completed or did not agree to the currency of the transaction, or
- POI currency conversion took place into a currency that is not the cardholder's billing currency, or
- POI currency conversion took place when the goods or services were priced in the cardholder's billing currency, or
- POI currency conversion took place when cash was disbursed in the cardholdeer's billing currency.
You do have a choice of currencies. Exercise that choice!
Do not get taken by surprise when faced with DCC, and know your options. As Visa/MC purport, you do have a choice of currencies, but you need to make that choice heard! Don't be complacent in this sneaky tactic by some merchants to pad revenues.
Before going to a different country, get educated. Understand the exchange rate relative to your native currency. Know how to recognize when the merchant is trying to force DCC on the transaction, and pull out all of the stops to make sure it doesn't happen to you.
If you have a chip-and-PIN credit card, it's easier to control the transaction to try to prevent DCC. With chip-and-signature, if you get an uncooperative merchant, deface the merchant's copy of the receipt. Write LOCAL OPTION NOT OFFERED, cross out the DCC currency amount, and sign the receipt.
This will give additional evidence when filing a dispute to get the DCC charges refunded. When filing the dispute, you can use the Visa Exchange Rate Calculator or MasterCard's Currency Conversion Tool to determine the Visa or MasterCard exchange rate on the date the transaction posted to your credit card. Compare this to the DCC value to figure out the amount by which the merchant overcharged you. Don't forget to add in any Foreign Transaction Fee if your card has one. (If it does, you should really consider finding a card for use overseas without a FTF.
)Example Images (click for a larger image)
Hotel receipts in China, the Netherlands, and Dubai respectively:
Purchase receipts in China and Korea:
Cancelled translation in Hong Kong:
Novotel in Shenzen:
Dynamic Currency Conversion (DCC) [2014-2016]
Mar 29, 2015, 7:49 pm
#1816
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,537
Wait, so it wanted THEM to type a sale amount in USD? That doesn't sound like DCC... that sounds like a dual-currency account on their end...
Mar 29, 2015, 10:04 pm
#1817
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: SJC
Programs: AA, AS, Marriott
Posts: 6,060
I think this was the case since there was no opportunity to enter the CI$ amount. We're they just going to key in 1.2x the CI$ amount or was there another exchange rate applied? I'd like to see this setup to see if there's a "convenience fee" for paying in USD. The way DCC normally works is that the cashier keys in the amount in local currency, swipes/inserts the card, and that's when DCC happens.
Mar 31, 2015, 4:03 am
#1818
Join Date: Feb 2001
Programs: IHG Diamond, HH Diamond, BW Diamond Select, Accor Silver, Marriott Gold
Posts: 4,228
My guess is that Capital One's posting date rates were different from the ones that OP thought were the actual posting rates. Maybe if we find another time when currency fluctuation isn't huge, we can see Capital One rates matching MC rates?
My experience with Chase MC IHG card is that it always uses the MC rates.
My experience with Chase MC IHG card is that it always uses the MC rates.
See this Chase foreign exchange rates thread.
Mar 31, 2015, 4:07 am
#1819
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,537
The Chase IHG MC is about the mid-rate (as per xe.com), while the Chase Visa cards are worse. Not 2.6% worse, but definitely worse.
See this Chase foreign exchange rates thread.
See this Chase foreign exchange rates thread.
Mar 31, 2015, 5:09 am
#1820
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: MSP
Programs: Delta 1 MM, Platinum. Marriott-Hilton Gold
Posts: 312
Had two hotel stay transactions in India so far, no sign of DCC. I have been using my Sams Mastercard, pin never asked. I used my UNFCU card at the airport to pay for excess baggage, I was asked a pin. Again no DCC.
Mar 31, 2015, 6:18 am
#1821
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Irvine CA & PEK
Programs: Hyatt Globalist, Marriott Titanium, Hilton Diamond, IHG Spire Ambassador, Qantas Platinum, United S
Posts: 664
The Chase IHG MC is about the mid-rate (as per xe.com), while the Chase Visa cards are worse. Not 2.6% worse, but definitely worse.
See this Chase foreign exchange rates thread.
See this Chase foreign exchange rates thread.
The rates Chase used were exact to the rates published by Visa.com on the posting dates.
Maybe things have changed? I will look at my recent transactions in China and calculate again.
Mar 31, 2015, 6:34 am
#1822
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Irvine CA & PEK
Programs: Hyatt Globalist, Marriott Titanium, Hilton Diamond, IHG Spire Ambassador, Qantas Platinum, United S
Posts: 664
I just responded on the Chase FX thread that I found my transactions in China using CSP in the recent month did not have the 1% over Visa rate.
Mar 31, 2015, 8:54 am
#1823
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 1
DCC'ed in Poland
Well, doing a bit of traveling here in Poland and just got hit 3 times for DCC charges. I don't remember this being nearly as much of a problem back in 2009-10 but I was here again about 14 months ago and was DCCed at a gas station in Zgorzelec.
In the most recent cases, two from gas stations and one from a well-known international pizzeria none of them gave the option to select PLN instead of CAD. In the case from today which is freshest in my memory, there were no indication (as usual) on the hand-held PIN terminal that I would be billed in anything other than PLN and of course the cash register showed the bill in PLN.
PKO Bank Polski seems to do most of the processing of credit card transactions in Poland and in all three cases, one in Warszawa and two in Szczecin, there was never a choice to select local currency on my part.
In the case of one of the gas stations (named after a Dutch crustacean) two days ago I was there for a fill-up and was specifically asked if I wanted the transaction in PLN. Today, a different cashier said nothing and without warning until the final receipts were given to me back with my Visa, I was slammed with the DCC and of course on a 85L fill up this can be prohibitive.
I called my bank in Canada (you know who you are RBC) and of course they did their usual denials and recriminations. They have the worst charge-back department known to man. As before, I get the usual well if you entered in PIN then there's nothing we can do... story. I offered to explain to them in both official languages that the PIN had nothing to do with the amount entered on the cash register and that at no time at all was a currency amount ever shown on the client PIN handset. In fact, when I wanted to do Paypass, the gas station refused. It was a bizarre experience.
So now, I was told by some guy at RBC that I should 'scan' (because I always bring my scanner with me when I travel) the receipts for the three transactions and they will 'look into it'. I told him that was not interested in really disputing the entire amounts (I pay my bills) but I will not be hosed for some fraudulent DCC. At the very beginning of the conversation he had even asked me if I knew how much the overage was for the DCC and I told him that this was something he should be determining himself given that if I had proceeded with the transactions correctly, the currency would have been converted by Visa themselves.
In these cases it seems like having a Chip & PIN is worse than the US-style magnetic strip cards. At least with mag strip there is a better opportunity to dispute the charge where the bank cannot turn around and claim that you entered in your PIN and so 'their hands are tied'. Maybe I should start looking at using my Discover and Amex cards which are without chip? At least neither of them have foreign currency commissions.
In the most recent cases, two from gas stations and one from a well-known international pizzeria none of them gave the option to select PLN instead of CAD. In the case from today which is freshest in my memory, there were no indication (as usual) on the hand-held PIN terminal that I would be billed in anything other than PLN and of course the cash register showed the bill in PLN.
PKO Bank Polski seems to do most of the processing of credit card transactions in Poland and in all three cases, one in Warszawa and two in Szczecin, there was never a choice to select local currency on my part.
In the case of one of the gas stations (named after a Dutch crustacean) two days ago I was there for a fill-up and was specifically asked if I wanted the transaction in PLN. Today, a different cashier said nothing and without warning until the final receipts were given to me back with my Visa, I was slammed with the DCC and of course on a 85L fill up this can be prohibitive.
I called my bank in Canada (you know who you are RBC) and of course they did their usual denials and recriminations. They have the worst charge-back department known to man. As before, I get the usual well if you entered in PIN then there's nothing we can do... story. I offered to explain to them in both official languages that the PIN had nothing to do with the amount entered on the cash register and that at no time at all was a currency amount ever shown on the client PIN handset. In fact, when I wanted to do Paypass, the gas station refused. It was a bizarre experience.
So now, I was told by some guy at RBC that I should 'scan' (because I always bring my scanner with me when I travel) the receipts for the three transactions and they will 'look into it'. I told him that was not interested in really disputing the entire amounts (I pay my bills) but I will not be hosed for some fraudulent DCC. At the very beginning of the conversation he had even asked me if I knew how much the overage was for the DCC and I told him that this was something he should be determining himself given that if I had proceeded with the transactions correctly, the currency would have been converted by Visa themselves.
In these cases it seems like having a Chip & PIN is worse than the US-style magnetic strip cards. At least with mag strip there is a better opportunity to dispute the charge where the bank cannot turn around and claim that you entered in your PIN and so 'their hands are tied'. Maybe I should start looking at using my Discover and Amex cards which are without chip? At least neither of them have foreign currency commissions.
Mar 31, 2015, 10:47 am
#1824
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: RSW
Programs: Delta - Silver; UA - Silver; HHonors - Diamond; IHG - Spire Ambassador; Marriott Bonvoy - Titanium
Posts: 14,185
Mar 31, 2015, 6:09 pm
#1825
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: MSP
Programs: Delta 1 MM, Platinum. Marriott-Hilton Gold
Posts: 312
Only signature. Since Sams has an offline pin, I was hoping it would for a pin transaction. I had made sure at one of the hotels I asked for card not to be swyped hoping for a pin. My guess both hotels had inline pin verification enabled and thus Sams card did not trigger a pin. The UNFC is better in that I do get asked a pin.
I ordered a card reader, so I should be able to update card peek results of all my cards in about 10 days.
I ordered a card reader, so I should be able to update card peek results of all my cards in about 10 days.
Mar 31, 2015, 7:13 pm
#1826
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: RSW
Programs: Delta - Silver; UA - Silver; HHonors - Diamond; IHG - Spire Ambassador; Marriott Bonvoy - Titanium
Posts: 14,185
Only signature. Since Sams has an offline pin, I was hoping it would for a pin transaction. I had made sure at one of the hotels I asked for card not to be swyped hoping for a pin. My guess both hotels had inline pin verification enabled and thus Sams card did not trigger a pin. The UNFC is better in that I do get asked a pin.
I ordered a card reader, so I should be able to update card peek results of all my cards in about 10 days.
I ordered a card reader, so I should be able to update card peek results of all my cards in about 10 days.
Mar 31, 2015, 7:35 pm
#1827
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Anywhere I need to be.
Programs: OW Emerald, *A Gold, NEXUS, GE, ABTC/APEC, South Korea SES, eIACS, PP, Hyatt Diamond
Posts: 16,046
Well, doing a bit of traveling here in Poland and just got hit 3 times for DCC charges. I don't remember this being nearly as much of a problem back in 2009-10 but I was here again about 14 months ago and was DCCed at a gas station in Zgorzelec.
In the most recent cases, two from gas stations and one from a well-known international pizzeria none of them gave the option to select PLN instead of CAD. In the case from today which is freshest in my memory, there were no indication (as usual) on the hand-held PIN terminal that I would be billed in anything other than PLN and of course the cash register showed the bill in PLN.
PKO Bank Polski seems to do most of the processing of credit card transactions in Poland and in all three cases, one in Warszawa and two in Szczecin, there was never a choice to select local currency on my part.
In the case of one of the gas stations (named after a Dutch crustacean) two days ago I was there for a fill-up and was specifically asked if I wanted the transaction in PLN. Today, a different cashier said nothing and without warning until the final receipts were given to me back with my Visa, I was slammed with the DCC and of course on a 85L fill up this can be prohibitive.
I called my bank in Canada (you know who you are RBC) and of course they did their usual denials and recriminations. They have the worst charge-back department known to man. As before, I get the usual well if you entered in PIN then there's nothing we can do... story. I offered to explain to them in both official languages that the PIN had nothing to do with the amount entered on the cash register and that at no time at all was a currency amount ever shown on the client PIN handset. In fact, when I wanted to do Paypass, the gas station refused. It was a bizarre experience.
So now, I was told by some guy at RBC that I should 'scan' (because I always bring my scanner with me when I travel) the receipts for the three transactions and they will 'look into it'. I told him that was not interested in really disputing the entire amounts (I pay my bills) but I will not be hosed for some fraudulent DCC. At the very beginning of the conversation he had even asked me if I knew how much the overage was for the DCC and I told him that this was something he should be determining himself given that if I had proceeded with the transactions correctly, the currency would have been converted by Visa themselves.
In these cases it seems like having a Chip & PIN is worse than the US-style magnetic strip cards. At least with mag strip there is a better opportunity to dispute the charge where the bank cannot turn around and claim that you entered in your PIN and so 'their hands are tied'. Maybe I should start looking at using my Discover and Amex cards which are without chip? At least neither of them have foreign currency commissions.
In the most recent cases, two from gas stations and one from a well-known international pizzeria none of them gave the option to select PLN instead of CAD. In the case from today which is freshest in my memory, there were no indication (as usual) on the hand-held PIN terminal that I would be billed in anything other than PLN and of course the cash register showed the bill in PLN.
PKO Bank Polski seems to do most of the processing of credit card transactions in Poland and in all three cases, one in Warszawa and two in Szczecin, there was never a choice to select local currency on my part.
In the case of one of the gas stations (named after a Dutch crustacean) two days ago I was there for a fill-up and was specifically asked if I wanted the transaction in PLN. Today, a different cashier said nothing and without warning until the final receipts were given to me back with my Visa, I was slammed with the DCC and of course on a 85L fill up this can be prohibitive.
I called my bank in Canada (you know who you are RBC) and of course they did their usual denials and recriminations. They have the worst charge-back department known to man. As before, I get the usual well if you entered in PIN then there's nothing we can do... story. I offered to explain to them in both official languages that the PIN had nothing to do with the amount entered on the cash register and that at no time at all was a currency amount ever shown on the client PIN handset. In fact, when I wanted to do Paypass, the gas station refused. It was a bizarre experience.
So now, I was told by some guy at RBC that I should 'scan' (because I always bring my scanner with me when I travel) the receipts for the three transactions and they will 'look into it'. I told him that was not interested in really disputing the entire amounts (I pay my bills) but I will not be hosed for some fraudulent DCC. At the very beginning of the conversation he had even asked me if I knew how much the overage was for the DCC and I told him that this was something he should be determining himself given that if I had proceeded with the transactions correctly, the currency would have been converted by Visa themselves.
In these cases it seems like having a Chip & PIN is worse than the US-style magnetic strip cards. At least with mag strip there is a better opportunity to dispute the charge where the bank cannot turn around and claim that you entered in your PIN and so 'their hands are tied'. Maybe I should start looking at using my Discover and Amex cards which are without chip? At least neither of them have foreign currency commissions.
Also AMEX in Canada does have FX fees (unless you are using USD cards, in which case you should have also used a USD chip and signature Visa.)
Mar 31, 2015, 10:27 pm
#1828
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: SJC
Programs: AA, AS, Marriott
Posts: 6,060
The scammed amount should be easy to figure out though from your end-take the CADPLN rate effective on that day, multiply it by the original amount in PLN and add RBC'S 2.5% FX fee.
Also AMEX in Canada does have FX fees (unless you are using USD cards, in which case you should have also used a USD chip and signature Visa.)
Also AMEX in Canada does have FX fees (unless you are using USD cards, in which case you should have also used a USD chip and signature Visa.)
Apr 1, 2015, 4:04 am
#1829
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: MSP
Programs: Delta 1 MM, Platinum. Marriott-Hilton Gold
Posts: 312
I moved $5k to my savings account with UNFCU and enabled automatic deduction of the full balance each due date. This way, I do not have to remember. Interestingly one can pay from a non UNFCU account as one time transaction, but they do NOT allow you to set automatic full deduction from an external linked account. I know of no other bank that does it (Kohls also has NO auto payment of bill). Anyway I will make sure I keep a good balance so I am never late in paying my monthly full balance.
Thanks. My WF card is offline PIN, but I think it means they don't want their clients stranded at train stations; they can sign for their own lunches! Just discovered today that UNFCU balances have a whopping 7 day payment period from statement closing (with e-statements enabled). Fortunately, I had a spare $9 in my accounts to cover it immediately.
Apr 1, 2015, 4:42 pm
#1830
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Amsterdam, Netherlands
Programs: KL Gold, SQ KF Gold, CX Green
Posts: 9,404
What would you do in the following case?
When I checked in at the Sukhothai Hotel, Bangkok, they swiped my credit card "just for guarantee". I didn't sign or press any buttons. When I checked out 3 days later, I expected to have to pay but they told me my card had already been charged. They gave me a hotel invoice (in THB), but no credit card receipt at all.
Sure enough, when I received my credit card statement yesterday they had charged me in the currency of my Visa card. The rate seems to be about 2% worse than other THB transactions around the same date.
What would you do in this case?
When I checked in at the Sukhothai Hotel, Bangkok, they swiped my credit card "just for guarantee". I didn't sign or press any buttons. When I checked out 3 days later, I expected to have to pay but they told me my card had already been charged. They gave me a hotel invoice (in THB), but no credit card receipt at all.
Sure enough, when I received my credit card statement yesterday they had charged me in the currency of my Visa card. The rate seems to be about 2% worse than other THB transactions around the same date.
What would you do in this case?
I complained to the merchant (Sukhothai Hotel, Bangkok) and to the bank of my credit card in Singapore.
Sukhothai Hotel told me that "they were not aware" that I had been charged in SGD but offered to refund the amount.
Turns out the bank in Singapore is adding 0.8% service fee to the DCC amount!!
In the end Sukhothai Hotel refunded the amount in SGD and the bank refunded the 0.8% service fee.
I told Sukhothai to charge me the THB amount at the exchange rate of the date of the transaction which they told me they couldn't do and then they asked how much I was willing to pay in SGD. I took the mid rate (interbank) for the transaction date and converted to SGD - this was the amount Sukhothai charged me.
In the end the total amount I paid was more than SGD 40 lower than originally charged. (which was about 7% of the amount)
In the process I exchanged 6 emails with the hotel and 3 with the bank, a lot of work for them so I hope they learned a lesson........
