Jan 18, 2014, 10:10 pm
Last edit by: emilio911
What is it?
Dynamic Currency Conversion (DCC) is a "service" some merchants and ATM operators offer that will charge a cardholder in the native currency of the card rather than the local currency. A more complete definition and examples are available via this Wikipedia article on DCC. While sold as a convenience to cardholders traveling outside of their home country, it is a pure profit play by the merchants. You may end up paying a fee of up to 8% over the purchase price for accepting DCC. Always decline DCC and asked to be billed in the local currency!
Where will I see it?
You can be hit with DCC anywhere there is a difference between your debit or credit card's denominated currency and the currency of the location where you're trying to use the card. The most common example will be at a merchant overseas, but now some ATMs are offering the service too. While many US cardholders complain about getting tricked into accepting DCC overseas, some merchants in the US have started to use DCC as well.
What is the issue?
Unless you're the merchant or ATM operator, there isn't much benefit to using DCC. Some customers say they prefer knowing exactly how much they'll be charged in their home currency or may not know the exchange rate of the place where they are visiting. For example, if you are in Prague for two days and you don't know how much the Czech Koruna is worth relative to the US Dollar, you might feel more comfortable knowing that you're buying an item for $205.00 versus 4000 CZK. However, the real exchange rate as of January 18, 2014 would place 4000 CZK at $197.18. You just paid an extra $7.82 for the "convenience" of knowing how much you'd be charged!
DCC often charges about a 4% premium over the true exchange rate. The problems don't stop there since many US banks still charge a 3% foreign transaction fee (FTF) for purchases made outside of the US. Not only would you get hit with the $205.00 charge, you could also find yourself facing a total charge of $211.15 if your card has a 3% FTF.
This is a pure money grab from the merchants, and it's billed as an easy way to squeeze additional revenue out of the transaction. Numerous [1, 2] articles have talked about DCC duping many consumers. Discover even has a warning about being tricked into DCC when using a card abroad.
For example, this FlyerTalk member reported that Avis charged his Saudi credit card in Saudi riyals instead of USD for a car rental in Florida without his consent. This has also been a trend for hotels, particularly large chains as indicated here and here.
DCC is simply not worth it for the consumer. Unless you like paying a convenience fee of up to 5% of the total transaction just to know how much you will be billed, you should always decline DCC and ask to be billed in local currency when handing over your card.
Furthermore, it is in your interest to obtain a card that has a 0% FTF. FlyerTalk member kebosabi maintains a fairly comprehensive spreadsheet of EMV-enabled cards ideal for overseas travel, many of which offer a low or 0% FTF as a feature. There is also a wiki at FlyerGuide of various FTF of debit and credit cards.
What can I do to avoid DCC?
American Express currently does not support DCC on its network, so you are safe from DCC if using an American Express card. However, Visa and MasterCard card networks can support DCC, so be vigilant when purchasing abroad with a Visa or MasterCard branded card. There have been reports of being charged DCC with a Discover card in China [citation needed], but primarily the issue is happening with Visa and MasterCard cards.
Before handing your card to the merchant, always specify clearly that you want to be charged in the local currency and that you do not want DCC. For some transactions, you retain control of your card as you dip it into a chip reader and can view on a screen to select which currency you want to use for the transaction. Always select the local currencyto get the best exchange rate. Do not select the card's native currency!
Similarly, for ATM withdrawals, make sure you decline any kind of conversions. Some good examples of what to look for when using an ATM overseas are here and here. You're probably coming off of a long flight and fatigued, but educating yourself beforehand can save you from getting ripped off. The user interfaces on almost all of these ATMs are set up to encourage you to take the bait, and you have to be extremely vigilant not to fall for it.
If you are doing a PIN-based transaction, you should have the opportunity to review the total amount and denomination of the transaction before entering your PIN. If you are doing a signature transaction and the merchant has processed your transaction with DCC, cross out the amount and write "DCC refused" on the receipt. Do not sign the receipt, and demand that the merchant reverse the transaction and run it in the local currency. If no verification is required due to a small purchase amount, ask the merchant to reverse the charge and repeat the transaction using local currency. If all else fails, file a dispute with your card issuer when you return home. Even if it's immaterial, the banks will get the message like they did with EMV.
Some merchants will claim that their systems have to bill you in your native currency. This is a complete lie. But just like a mag stripe only card, this is battle where you have to be prepared. Don't settle for merchants claiming that "it has to be done this way" or "pay cash if you don't want this". Be prepared to walk away, and, if you must complete the transaction, write "DCC refused & merchant didn't give a choice" on the receipt and cross out the amount. Let the merchant know that you will be filing a dispute with your bank.
Disabling DCC
Disabling DCC on ANZ terminals in Australia
ANZ markets DCC as Customer Preferred Currency (CPC). Terminal operators can contact ANZ Merchant Services at 1800 039 025 to have this feature disabled. Currently, your Visa or MasterCard will be subjected to DCC if denominated in: CAD, CHF, DKK, EUR, GBP, HKD, JPY, MYR, NOK, NZD, SEK, SGD, THB, USD, or ZAR. All DCC transactions on ANZ will cause a 2.5% markup. Steps to avoid DCC:
If you see a signature slip with DCC verbiage and a checkbox indicating a currency selection, kindly ask the merchant to void the transaction. If it's a PIN-based transaction, you have an additional opportunity to cancel the transaction because it will ask for your PIN a second time. For instance, if you see "EUR 17.29 KEY PIN" refuse to enter your PIN and start again.
Disabling DCC in China
There are many reports of forced DCC in China, and there is a great thread [closed to new posts] on DCC in China on the the China Destinations forum.
Disabling DCC on Bankcomm terminals in Beijing http://www.hongkongcard.com/forum/fo...p?id=12272&p=2 #19
jair101's DCC instructions of March 2011 http://www.etveg.com/misc/DCC_China.pdf
Disabling DCC in Eurozone and UK
DCC offered in tourist traps (Harrods Knightsbridge/Galleries Lafayette Montparnesse/El Cortes Ingles Grand Via Madrid)
Unlike the rest of the world, Visa Europe does not require merchants to collect a ticked box on the slip (presumably because merchants there don't keep signed slips under Chip-and-PIN)
El Cortes Ingles collects a signature electronically and the DCC selection is made on the signature pad - the choice is respected.
Harrods and GL rely on cashier input in the POS for the currency choice - the cashier may forget to ask. The POS do not offer voiding (only refunds), but since you're given a slip to sign the best thing to do is to deface it before signing and submit chargeback request to issuer bank on return home.
There may be smaller merchants who also collect DCC but I seemed to have pre-empted most of them by saying "charge Euros (Pounds) please"
In Spain all merchants by law are required to provide you with a complaint form called an hoja de reclamaciones if requested. The form has two carbon copies. The customer retains one copy as a record of the complaint. The merchant maintains another copy, and the third is sent to the local consumer protection bureau. Merchants are also required to post a sign conspicuously informing the customer of the right to complain (usually in Spanish and English). Do not accept the lie that they don't have any forms. This is illegal, and you are able to call the police if the merchant refuses to provide you with this official form. It's interesting to see merchants start to squirm when you know the rules, and most merchants will start to be accommodating after you mention it. (Please still fill out the form even if the merchant cooperates after mentioning it because these are likely the merchants who won't otherwise change their behavior.)
Disabling DCC in Hong Kong and Macau
Hong Kong and Macau can get as non-compliant as China, possibly because many acquirers have cross-border operations and know they can get away with non-compliant firmware and procedures.
In practice, if you are given a DCC slip, and the cashier has not taken a choice before giving you your copy, the slip will be processed in your home currency - be prepared to dispute.
Unable to disable Global Payments DCC in Hong Kong instance #1, instance #2
Unable to disable DBS DCC in Fortress Electronics HK
Unable to disable BoC DCC in Free Duty HK
Disabling DCC in Japan and Korea
Japan's just starting out http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/japan...ing-japan.html and http://www.hongkongcard.com/forum/fo...p?id=3939&p=17 #168 but there are no reports I know of where cardholders are compelled to use DCC against their will.
Korea is also not much affected by DCC but where offered, trying to opt out is harder than Japan due to the language barrier (both verbal and written)
http://www.hongkongcard.com/forum/fo...hp?id=4303&p=3 #23
http://www.hongkongcard.com/forum/fo...p?id=12272&p=2 #11
Disabling DCC in the Maldives
Disabling DCC on Global Payment terminals in the Maldives
Disabling DCC in Thailand and Taiwan
DCC present but generally not an issue. Cashier will generate quote slip is usually generated and pass to cardholder. When cardholder refuses, a verbage-free slip denominated in THB/TWD will be produced.
Certain Taiwan hotels may take deposits in cardholder currency. But these are only pre-authorisations and can be voided in full for TWD-only final checkout payments.
Disabling DCC on Websites
Airbnb - (Since the "loophole" seem not to work anymore, please report if you chargeback the DCC.
)
Hotwire - You need to select your preferred currency before making a search.
PayPal - The instructions to stop the DCC on a recurring charge are here.
I got duped by DCC already before I found this thread. Is there anything I can do?
If you've been hit with DCC and the merchant did not follow the Visa/MC rules, you should file a dispute with your card issuer. Even if the transaction is a small amount, it's worth it to dispute the charge on principle. Do not let merchants get away with this scam uncontested!
If you were not clearly given a choice of currencies and did not specifically communicate a preference to be billed in your card's native currency - if you did not accept DCC - then you have recourse when filing a dispute with your card issuer. The Visa Product and Service Rules clearly state (p 339):
You can even use terminology from Visa Product and Service Rules when filing the dispute, giving Reason Code 76: Incorrect Currency or Transaction Code. Reason Code 76 is used when the transaction was processed with an incorrect transaction code, or an incorrect currency code, or one of the following:
MasterCard's rules also clearly state that the POI Currency Conversion must be decided by both the merchant and customer. When filing a dispute with a MasterCard, list chargeback Reason Code 4846 from the MasterCard Chargeback Guide, which covers POI currency conversion disputes in the following circumstances:
You do have a choice of currencies. Exercise that choice!
Do not get taken by surprise when faced with DCC, and know your options. As Visa/MC purport, you do have a choice of currencies, but you need to make that choice heard! Don't be complacent in this sneaky tactic by some merchants to pad revenues.
Before going to a different country, get educated. Understand the exchange rate relative to your native currency. Know how to recognize when the merchant is trying to force DCC on the transaction, and pull out all of the stops to make sure it doesn't happen to you.
If you have a chip-and-PIN credit card, it's easier to control the transaction to try to prevent DCC. With chip-and-signature, if you get an uncooperative merchant, deface the merchant's copy of the receipt. Write LOCAL OPTION NOT OFFERED, cross out the DCC currency amount, and sign the receipt.
This will give additional evidence when filing a dispute to get the DCC charges refunded. When filing the dispute, you can use the Visa Exchange Rate Calculator or MasterCard's Currency Conversion Tool to determine the Visa or MasterCard exchange rate on the date the transaction posted to your credit card. Compare this to the DCC value to figure out the amount by which the merchant overcharged you. Don't forget to add in any Foreign Transaction Fee if your card has one. (If it does, you should really consider finding a card for use overseas without a FTF.)
Example Images (click for a larger image)
Hotel receipts in China, the Netherlands, and Dubai respectively:
Purchase receipts in China and Korea:
Cancelled translation in Hong Kong:
Novotel in Shenzen:
Dynamic Currency Conversion (DCC) is a "service" some merchants and ATM operators offer that will charge a cardholder in the native currency of the card rather than the local currency. A more complete definition and examples are available via this Wikipedia article on DCC. While sold as a convenience to cardholders traveling outside of their home country, it is a pure profit play by the merchants. You may end up paying a fee of up to 8% over the purchase price for accepting DCC. Always decline DCC and asked to be billed in the local currency!
Where will I see it?
You can be hit with DCC anywhere there is a difference between your debit or credit card's denominated currency and the currency of the location where you're trying to use the card. The most common example will be at a merchant overseas, but now some ATMs are offering the service too. While many US cardholders complain about getting tricked into accepting DCC overseas, some merchants in the US have started to use DCC as well.
What is the issue?
Unless you're the merchant or ATM operator, there isn't much benefit to using DCC. Some customers say they prefer knowing exactly how much they'll be charged in their home currency or may not know the exchange rate of the place where they are visiting. For example, if you are in Prague for two days and you don't know how much the Czech Koruna is worth relative to the US Dollar, you might feel more comfortable knowing that you're buying an item for $205.00 versus 4000 CZK. However, the real exchange rate as of January 18, 2014 would place 4000 CZK at $197.18. You just paid an extra $7.82 for the "convenience" of knowing how much you'd be charged!
DCC often charges about a 4% premium over the true exchange rate. The problems don't stop there since many US banks still charge a 3% foreign transaction fee (FTF) for purchases made outside of the US. Not only would you get hit with the $205.00 charge, you could also find yourself facing a total charge of $211.15 if your card has a 3% FTF.
This is a pure money grab from the merchants, and it's billed as an easy way to squeeze additional revenue out of the transaction. Numerous [1, 2] articles have talked about DCC duping many consumers. Discover even has a warning about being tricked into DCC when using a card abroad.
For example, this FlyerTalk member reported that Avis charged his Saudi credit card in Saudi riyals instead of USD for a car rental in Florida without his consent. This has also been a trend for hotels, particularly large chains as indicated here and here.
DCC is simply not worth it for the consumer. Unless you like paying a convenience fee of up to 5% of the total transaction just to know how much you will be billed, you should always decline DCC and ask to be billed in local currency when handing over your card.
Furthermore, it is in your interest to obtain a card that has a 0% FTF. FlyerTalk member kebosabi maintains a fairly comprehensive spreadsheet of EMV-enabled cards ideal for overseas travel, many of which offer a low or 0% FTF as a feature. There is also a wiki at FlyerGuide of various FTF of debit and credit cards.
What can I do to avoid DCC?
American Express currently does not support DCC on its network, so you are safe from DCC if using an American Express card. However, Visa and MasterCard card networks can support DCC, so be vigilant when purchasing abroad with a Visa or MasterCard branded card. There have been reports of being charged DCC with a Discover card in China [citation needed], but primarily the issue is happening with Visa and MasterCard cards.
Before handing your card to the merchant, always specify clearly that you want to be charged in the local currency and that you do not want DCC. For some transactions, you retain control of your card as you dip it into a chip reader and can view on a screen to select which currency you want to use for the transaction. Always select the local currencyto get the best exchange rate. Do not select the card's native currency!
Similarly, for ATM withdrawals, make sure you decline any kind of conversions. Some good examples of what to look for when using an ATM overseas are here and here. You're probably coming off of a long flight and fatigued, but educating yourself beforehand can save you from getting ripped off. The user interfaces on almost all of these ATMs are set up to encourage you to take the bait, and you have to be extremely vigilant not to fall for it.
If you are doing a PIN-based transaction, you should have the opportunity to review the total amount and denomination of the transaction before entering your PIN. If you are doing a signature transaction and the merchant has processed your transaction with DCC, cross out the amount and write "DCC refused" on the receipt. Do not sign the receipt, and demand that the merchant reverse the transaction and run it in the local currency. If no verification is required due to a small purchase amount, ask the merchant to reverse the charge and repeat the transaction using local currency. If all else fails, file a dispute with your card issuer when you return home. Even if it's immaterial, the banks will get the message like they did with EMV.
Some merchants will claim that their systems have to bill you in your native currency. This is a complete lie. But just like a mag stripe only card, this is battle where you have to be prepared. Don't settle for merchants claiming that "it has to be done this way" or "pay cash if you don't want this". Be prepared to walk away, and, if you must complete the transaction, write "DCC refused & merchant didn't give a choice" on the receipt and cross out the amount. Let the merchant know that you will be filing a dispute with your bank.
Disabling DCC
Disabling DCC on ANZ terminals in Australia
ANZ markets DCC as Customer Preferred Currency (CPC). Terminal operators can contact ANZ Merchant Services at 1800 039 025 to have this feature disabled. Currently, your Visa or MasterCard will be subjected to DCC if denominated in: CAD, CHF, DKK, EUR, GBP, HKD, JPY, MYR, NOK, NZD, SEK, SGD, THB, USD, or ZAR. All DCC transactions on ANZ will cause a 2.5% markup. Steps to avoid DCC:
- Insert, swipe, or tap your payment card
- Have the cashier select credit (CR)
- The terminal will display CREDIT ACCOUNT
- If applicable, enter your PIN
- The terminal will display PROCESSING \ PLEASE WAIT
- The terminal will display EXCH <exchange rate> \ <currency> <amount> \ ACCEPT RATE? \ ENTER=YES CLR=NO
- Instruct the cashier to press the yellow CLEAR (CLR) button (If entering a PIN, you can retain the terminal to perform this step yourself. If entering a signature, you can ask for the terminal to control this process, not indicating that it's a chip-and-signature card.)
- The transaction should now process without DCC
If you see a signature slip with DCC verbiage and a checkbox indicating a currency selection, kindly ask the merchant to void the transaction. If it's a PIN-based transaction, you have an additional opportunity to cancel the transaction because it will ask for your PIN a second time. For instance, if you see "EUR 17.29 KEY PIN" refuse to enter your PIN and start again.
Disabling DCC in China
There are many reports of forced DCC in China, and there is a great thread [closed to new posts] on DCC in China on the the China Destinations forum.
Disabling DCC on Bankcomm terminals in Beijing http://www.hongkongcard.com/forum/fo...p?id=12272&p=2 #19
jair101's DCC instructions of March 2011 http://www.etveg.com/misc/DCC_China.pdf
Disabling DCC in Eurozone and UK
DCC offered in tourist traps (Harrods Knightsbridge/Galleries Lafayette Montparnesse/El Cortes Ingles Grand Via Madrid)
Unlike the rest of the world, Visa Europe does not require merchants to collect a ticked box on the slip (presumably because merchants there don't keep signed slips under Chip-and-PIN)
El Cortes Ingles collects a signature electronically and the DCC selection is made on the signature pad - the choice is respected.
Harrods and GL rely on cashier input in the POS for the currency choice - the cashier may forget to ask. The POS do not offer voiding (only refunds), but since you're given a slip to sign the best thing to do is to deface it before signing and submit chargeback request to issuer bank on return home.
There may be smaller merchants who also collect DCC but I seemed to have pre-empted most of them by saying "charge Euros (Pounds) please"
In Spain all merchants by law are required to provide you with a complaint form called an hoja de reclamaciones if requested. The form has two carbon copies. The customer retains one copy as a record of the complaint. The merchant maintains another copy, and the third is sent to the local consumer protection bureau. Merchants are also required to post a sign conspicuously informing the customer of the right to complain (usually in Spanish and English). Do not accept the lie that they don't have any forms. This is illegal, and you are able to call the police if the merchant refuses to provide you with this official form. It's interesting to see merchants start to squirm when you know the rules, and most merchants will start to be accommodating after you mention it. (Please still fill out the form even if the merchant cooperates after mentioning it because these are likely the merchants who won't otherwise change their behavior.)
Disabling DCC in Hong Kong and Macau
Hong Kong and Macau can get as non-compliant as China, possibly because many acquirers have cross-border operations and know they can get away with non-compliant firmware and procedures.
In practice, if you are given a DCC slip, and the cashier has not taken a choice before giving you your copy, the slip will be processed in your home currency - be prepared to dispute.
Unable to disable Global Payments DCC in Hong Kong instance #1, instance #2
Unable to disable DBS DCC in Fortress Electronics HK
Unable to disable BoC DCC in Free Duty HK
Disabling DCC in Japan and Korea
Japan's just starting out http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/japan...ing-japan.html and http://www.hongkongcard.com/forum/fo...p?id=3939&p=17 #168 but there are no reports I know of where cardholders are compelled to use DCC against their will.
Korea is also not much affected by DCC but where offered, trying to opt out is harder than Japan due to the language barrier (both verbal and written)
http://www.hongkongcard.com/forum/fo...hp?id=4303&p=3 #23
http://www.hongkongcard.com/forum/fo...p?id=12272&p=2 #11
Disabling DCC in the Maldives
Disabling DCC on Global Payment terminals in the Maldives
Disabling DCC in Thailand and Taiwan
DCC present but generally not an issue. Cashier will generate quote slip is usually generated and pass to cardholder. When cardholder refuses, a verbage-free slip denominated in THB/TWD will be produced.
Certain Taiwan hotels may take deposits in cardholder currency. But these are only pre-authorisations and can be voided in full for TWD-only final checkout payments.
Disabling DCC on Websites
Airbnb - (Since the "loophole" seem not to work anymore, please report if you chargeback the DCC.
)Hotwire - You need to select your preferred currency before making a search.
PayPal - The instructions to stop the DCC on a recurring charge are here.
I got duped by DCC already before I found this thread. Is there anything I can do?
If you've been hit with DCC and the merchant did not follow the Visa/MC rules, you should file a dispute with your card issuer. Even if the transaction is a small amount, it's worth it to dispute the charge on principle. Do not let merchants get away with this scam uncontested!
If you were not clearly given a choice of currencies and did not specifically communicate a preference to be billed in your card's native currency - if you did not accept DCC - then you have recourse when filing a dispute with your card issuer. The Visa Product and Service Rules clearly state (p 339):
- Merchants that offer DCC must be compliant with the regulations
- Inform the cardholder that DCC is optional
- Not impose any additional requirements to use local currency
- Not use any language or procedures that may cause the cardholder to choose DCC by default
- Not convert a transaction in the local currency to the card's billing currency after the transaction has completed
- Ensure that the cardholder expressly agrees to DCC
You can even use terminology from Visa Product and Service Rules when filing the dispute, giving Reason Code 76: Incorrect Currency or Transaction Code. Reason Code 76 is used when the transaction was processed with an incorrect transaction code, or an incorrect currency code, or one of the following:
- Merchant did not deposit a transaction receipt in the country where the transaction occurred
- Cardholder was not advised that Dynamic Currency Conversion (DCC) would occur
- Cardholder was refused the choice of paying in the merchant’s local currency
- Merchant processed a credit refund and did not process a reversal or adjustment within 30 calendar days for a transaction receipt processed in error
MasterCard's rules also clearly state that the POI Currency Conversion must be decided by both the merchant and customer. When filing a dispute with a MasterCard, list chargeback Reason Code 4846 from the MasterCard Chargeback Guide, which covers POI currency conversion disputes in the following circumstances:
- The cardholder states that he or she was not given the opportunity to choose the desired currency in which the transactions was completed or did not agree to the currency of the transaction, or
- POI currency conversion took place into a currency that is not the cardholder's billing currency, or
- POI currency conversion took place when the goods or services were priced in the cardholder's billing currency, or
- POI currency conversion took place when cash was disbursed in the cardholdeer's billing currency.
You do have a choice of currencies. Exercise that choice!
Do not get taken by surprise when faced with DCC, and know your options. As Visa/MC purport, you do have a choice of currencies, but you need to make that choice heard! Don't be complacent in this sneaky tactic by some merchants to pad revenues.
Before going to a different country, get educated. Understand the exchange rate relative to your native currency. Know how to recognize when the merchant is trying to force DCC on the transaction, and pull out all of the stops to make sure it doesn't happen to you.
If you have a chip-and-PIN credit card, it's easier to control the transaction to try to prevent DCC. With chip-and-signature, if you get an uncooperative merchant, deface the merchant's copy of the receipt. Write LOCAL OPTION NOT OFFERED, cross out the DCC currency amount, and sign the receipt.
This will give additional evidence when filing a dispute to get the DCC charges refunded. When filing the dispute, you can use the Visa Exchange Rate Calculator or MasterCard's Currency Conversion Tool to determine the Visa or MasterCard exchange rate on the date the transaction posted to your credit card. Compare this to the DCC value to figure out the amount by which the merchant overcharged you. Don't forget to add in any Foreign Transaction Fee if your card has one. (If it does, you should really consider finding a card for use overseas without a FTF.
)Example Images (click for a larger image)
Hotel receipts in China, the Netherlands, and Dubai respectively:
Purchase receipts in China and Korea:
Cancelled translation in Hong Kong:
Novotel in Shenzen:
Dynamic Currency Conversion (DCC) [2014-2016]
Feb 8, 2015, 3:59 pm
#1681
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 45
I stayed at Marriott hotel in Jaipur India in December. The hotel printed a receipt which showed both the converted USD total and the local currency total. I ticked the local currency total. But I did not see that the second slip they attached to my receipt did not show the tick mark on local currency. I had made sure I had taken a photograph of the one I gave them with my signature. No surprises but Marriott India charged me under DCC method. So this is clearly a fraud. This was a business trip, but I still do not want this type of fraud to continue. The card I used was a Sams Synchrony Master Card. What are my options here?
Feb 8, 2015, 7:24 pm
#1682
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: SJC
Programs: AA, AS, Marriott
Posts: 6,056
That is an example of a place printing out the receipt in US dollars before you even make the "choice." Very misleading. You can attempt a reason code 4846 chargeback since it is a mastercard. Chances are you will just get a courtesy credit unless it was a significant amount. Ideally though a chargeback is better because it causes a bunch of paperwork for the merchant. Good luck!
Feb 8, 2015, 11:10 pm
#1683
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: SJC
Programs: AA, AS, Marriott
Posts: 6,056
Just to report back on some attempts to find DCC in the US, my sister-in-law used an AUD-denominated debit MasterCard from Commonwealth Bank for two transactions on Sunday. It's not a rewards earning card, and Commonwealth Bank passes on the 1% currency conversion fee applied by Visa and MC and charges a 2% FTF as a base rate. So, the best you're likely to see is a 3% fee for using the card. In the case of DCC you'd get hit by the 2% FTF + DCC markup. My sister-in-law already knew that the DCC spread wasn't worth it, but she was taken for a ride the first time she used her card in Hong Kong.
The first was at the Cheesecake Factory at Union Square in San Francisco. I thought the Cheesecake Factory would be a good candidate considering the number of tourists that like it and the fact that they might see some international card use. When we presented the form of payment, I didn't want to bias the situation, so we handed the card to the waitress without saying anything. The bill was $56.27, and the printed receipt didn't make any mention of DCC. We checked online and the pending transaction is A$72.33, which is close enough to the MC rate of 1.285182 AUD/USD from February 6th. (They haven't yet posted the February 8th rate.)
The second transaction was at West Elm in Palo Alto. We did not see DCC here either. They have non-EMV terminals with touchscreens/electronic signature pads. When she swiped her card it automatically processed as a MasterCard debit transaction with a PIN. The item amount was $38.06, and the transaction immediately posted to her account online for A$48.93. She also had a separate foreign transaction fee of A$1.47, which is 3% of the settled transaction amount.
I really want to test out Macy's, Bloomingdale's, and Nordstrom, but I hate to see her losing out on 3% every time just in the interest of continuing my DCC hunt in the US beyond airport duty free.
The first was at the Cheesecake Factory at Union Square in San Francisco. I thought the Cheesecake Factory would be a good candidate considering the number of tourists that like it and the fact that they might see some international card use. When we presented the form of payment, I didn't want to bias the situation, so we handed the card to the waitress without saying anything. The bill was $56.27, and the printed receipt didn't make any mention of DCC. We checked online and the pending transaction is A$72.33, which is close enough to the MC rate of 1.285182 AUD/USD from February 6th. (They haven't yet posted the February 8th rate.)
The second transaction was at West Elm in Palo Alto. We did not see DCC here either. They have non-EMV terminals with touchscreens/electronic signature pads. When she swiped her card it automatically processed as a MasterCard debit transaction with a PIN. The item amount was $38.06, and the transaction immediately posted to her account online for A$48.93. She also had a separate foreign transaction fee of A$1.47, which is 3% of the settled transaction amount.
I really want to test out Macy's, Bloomingdale's, and Nordstrom, but I hate to see her losing out on 3% every time just in the interest of continuing my DCC hunt in the US beyond airport duty free.
Feb 9, 2015, 8:03 am
#1684
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: MSP
Programs: Delta 1 MM, Platinum. Marriott-Hilton Gold
Posts: 312
I think DCC is aggressively pushed in Asia because of more profits. It has now spread to ATM's too. Last year when I was withdrawing cash at Delhi airport I got a message we are giving you the best conversion rate using DCC, with a button to continue or "cancel". It makes one think, cancel means cancel the transaction. When I hit cancel, it continued the transaction without DCC. I am pretty sure 95% of travelers at 1.30 AM, after 17 hours of flight time and more just want to get to their hotel and hit the sack. I expect that until regulators clamp down on this, this will proliferate.
Feb 9, 2015, 8:19 am
#1685
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: SJC
Programs: AA, AS, Marriott
Posts: 6,056
I think DCC is aggressively pushed in Asia because of more profits. It has now spread to ATM's too. Last year when I was withdrawing cash at Delhi airport I got a message we are giving you the best conversion rate using DCC, with a button to continue or "cancel". It makes one think, cancel means cancel the transaction. When I hit cancel, it continued the transaction without DCC. I am pretty sure 95% of travelers at 1.30 AM, after 17 hours of flight time and more just want to get to their hotel and hit the sack. I expect that until regulators clamp down on this, this will proliferate.
Issuers lose out if they have a currency exchange fee, which is why many have responded by switching to foreign transaction fees. Some believe that Visa and MasterCard look the other way even with flagrant violations of published rules about how a DCC transaction must occur since offering DCC might compel merchants to accept Visa and MC.
Feb 9, 2015, 9:26 am
#1686
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: San Diego, CA
Programs: GE, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 15,502
Speaking of acquirers, even though FD says that DCC is an option on their website, does the acquirer also need to support DCC? Considering that most don't even have EMV enabled software for terminals yet DCC may not be a high priority right now.
Feb 10, 2015, 4:25 am
#1687
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: YYZ
Posts: 1,666
I think DCC is aggressively pushed in Asia because of more profits. It has now spread to ATM's too. Last year when I was withdrawing cash at Delhi airport I got a message we are giving you the best conversion rate using DCC, with a button to continue or "cancel". It makes one think, cancel means cancel the transaction. When I hit cancel, it continued the transaction without DCC. I am pretty sure 95% of travelers at 1.30 AM, after 17 hours of flight time and more just want to get to their hotel and hit the sack. I expect that until regulators clamp down on this, this will proliferate.
They were quoted a rate of 20000 THB = USD 650.50 + 180 THB fee. Nice scam they've got going there, charging 7% over what our bank would have plus the already exorbitant overseas user ATM fee.
Feb 10, 2015, 4:50 am
#1688
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: MSP
Programs: Delta 1 MM, Platinum. Marriott-Hilton Gold
Posts: 312
I see an opportunity for tort lawyers to take take down Master card CEO AjayPal Banga and Visa CEO Charles Scharf's pants down in public. Fonance companies are fine by the feds, but unless some CEO's go to jail nothing will come of these types of scams. I subscribe to WSJ, NYT and Barron's. I am going to write a strong letter to the editor about this type of scam and also file a complaint with CFPB. I would encourage forum members to do likewise. Here is the link to file complaints.
http://www.consumerfinance.gov/complaint/
Unless Visa and Mastercard refuse to go along, this type of scam will continue.
http://www.consumerfinance.gov/complaint/
Unless Visa and Mastercard refuse to go along, this type of scam will continue.
My parents reported that in BKK (they don't remember which bank) - they were not given the option to not DCC, and if they pushed Cancel on the screen the ATM returned their card.
They were quoted a rate of 20000 THB = USD 650.50 + 180 THB fee. Nice scam they've got going there, charging 7% over what our bank would have plus the already exorbitant overseas user ATM fee.
They were quoted a rate of 20000 THB = USD 650.50 + 180 THB fee. Nice scam they've got going there, charging 7% over what our bank would have plus the already exorbitant overseas user ATM fee.
Feb 10, 2015, 4:52 am
#1689
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,537
I think DCC is aggressively pushed in Asia because of more profits. It has now spread to ATM's too. Last year when I was withdrawing cash at Delhi airport I got a message we are giving you the best conversion rate using DCC, with a button to continue or "cancel". It makes one think, cancel means cancel the transaction. When I hit cancel, it continued the transaction without DCC. I am pretty sure 95% of travelers at 1.30 AM, after 17 hours of flight time and more just want to get to their hotel and hit the sack. I expect that until regulators clamp down on this, this will proliferate.
Visa and Mastercard's hands are tied. They've tried to stop this nonsense, but got sued by "consumer" groups (which are really controlled by merchants) for doing so. This isn't their plague. Amex and Discover are smaller networks, thus not seen to have undue influence on the market, they have more freedom to protect their cardholders.
Feb 10, 2015, 8:21 am
#1690
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: SJC
Programs: AA, AS, Marriott
Posts: 6,056
My parents reported that in BKK (they don't remember which bank) - they were not given the option to not DCC, and if they pushed Cancel on the screen the ATM returned their card.
They were quoted a rate of 20000 THB = USD 650.50 + 180 THB fee. Nice scam they've got going there, charging 7% over what our bank would have plus the already exorbitant overseas user ATM fee.
They were quoted a rate of 20000 THB = USD 650.50 + 180 THB fee. Nice scam they've got going there, charging 7% over what our bank would have plus the already exorbitant overseas user ATM fee.
Some of the ATMs are really deceptive, and one has to press 'no' or 'cancel' to avoid DCC. In this case, cancel in fact cancelled the transaction, making it more difficult to determine how to bypass DCC. I've also seen a setup where you have to page through multiple screens and decline the DCC offer more than once. For example the wording was along the lines of, "Are you sure? We cannot guarantee the exchange rate if you decline. Press OK to accept and NO to cancel." Are you pressing OK to accept the disclaimer or accepting the DCC conversion? Does no decline DCC or cancel the transaction? Imagine most people getting caught in that after a long flight and being fatigued. 7% is outrageous though.
The problem with DCC is that it often occurs in a location where you're not native and might have a language barrier. You also aren't familiar with the consumer protections or options available to you if the merchant isn't willing to play along. Combined with the issuer's propensity to issue a courtesy credit for small DCC charges, the merchants don't have to deal with the pain of a chargeback, so the bad behavior continues.
Feb 10, 2015, 8:28 am
#1691
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: SJC
Programs: AA, AS, Marriott
Posts: 6,056
Visa and Mastercard's hands are tied. They've tried to stop this nonsense, but got sued by "consumer" groups (which are really controlled by merchants) for doing so. This isn't their plague. Amex and Discover are smaller networks, thus not seen to have undue influence on the market, they have more freedom to protect their cardholders.
Feb 10, 2015, 8:40 am
#1692
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,537
I would also say AmEx and Discover have more end-to-end control of their networks. While there are third party issuers of American Express cards, Discover is the only issuer of its cards, right? Furthermore, while I don't have the numbers, I imagine that AmEx issues the vast majority of AmEx branded cards rather than a third party issuer. Visa and MC don't issue their own cards; they're simply the payment network. Also, depending on the fee structure, issuers can lose out with DCC since they don't get the additional profit if the card levies a currency exchange fee. Of course, in the US we've all moved to FTFs, so they'd get their cut anyway.
Feb 10, 2015, 12:56 pm
#1693
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Canada
Programs: BA Gold (OWE), Star Alliance Gold, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 2,194
Diners Club is essentially Discover as well (excluding NA) and its a separate franchise in every country.
Last edited by reclusive46; Feb 10, 2015 at 2:04 pm
Feb 11, 2015, 11:04 am
#1694
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: San Diego, CA
Programs: GE, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 15,502
BTW, Costco/Elavon is apparently in the DCC game as well: https://www.costcopaymentprocessing....t-Overview.pdf. Not sure if DCC is automatic or if the merchant has to opt-in. Since Costco's currently selling $99 EMV terminals (effectively free if the merchant claims the AmEx rebate), there might be a whole bunch of smaller businesses who will soon be DCC enabled if the former.
EDIT: also, speaking of Elavon, they apparently have a "Best Rate Guarantee" (PDF):
Has anyone tried this?
EDIT: also, speaking of Elavon, they apparently have a "Best Rate Guarantee" (PDF):
What if my customer could have obtained a better exchange rate?
If cardholders can show that they would have obtained a better effective rate (including international usage fee)
from their credit or debit card provider, Elavon will honour the Best Rate Guarantee by paying the difference
between the amount the cardholder was charged at your business and the amount he/she would have been
charged by their card provider if the transaction had been completed in your local currency. Just ask them to
complete and submit the Best Rate Guarantee Claim Form [http://tellmemore.elavon.com/DCC] within 60
days of the original purchase date.
If cardholders can show that they would have obtained a better effective rate (including international usage fee)
from their credit or debit card provider, Elavon will honour the Best Rate Guarantee by paying the difference
between the amount the cardholder was charged at your business and the amount he/she would have been
charged by their card provider if the transaction had been completed in your local currency. Just ask them to
complete and submit the Best Rate Guarantee Claim Form [http://tellmemore.elavon.com/DCC] within 60
days of the original purchase date.
Last edited by tmiw; Feb 11, 2015 at 11:23 am
Feb 11, 2015, 3:56 pm
#1695
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: NYC
Posts: 556
EDIT: also, speaking of Elavon, they apparently have a "Best Rate Guarantee" (PDF):
Has anyone tried this?
Has anyone tried this?
Also, they only give you the price difference they fleeced you by, so you have to waste all the time tracking down the statement, filling out their forms, and waiting 2 months for them to respond. The wording of the claim form also seems to intimidate you into giving up your chargeback rights too, or if they say no to your 'request'.