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USA EMV cards: Availability, Q&A (Chip & PIN -or- Chip & Signature) [2012-2015]

Old Sep 20, 2013, 11:40 am
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Last edit by: philemer
Posts from 1/1/16 onward can be found here: http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/credit-card-programs/1739359-2016-onward-usa-emv-cards-availability-q-chip-pin-signature.html

EMV wikipost volunteers: kebosabi

What is EMV?
EMV is a defacto global standard of technology where there is a visible microchip on the front of the card. It looks like this:

Who issues them?
See Google Docs spreadsheet in Post #1

SFOAMS also has created a list of excellent webpage that shows US EMV cards in a more interactive interface

Another site, which lets you narrow the search for an EMV card by various parameters, is http://www.spotterswiki.com/emv/index.php.

Several credit unions issue some form of Chip-and-PIN credit cards or prepaid cards. Prepaid EMV cards however are not recommended due to junk fees. USAA (currently restricted to members of military) used to offer Chip-and-PIN cards, but as late has backtracked to Chip-and-Signature priority.

Hey that's a cool Google Docs list! I know others that aren't on that list. How can I help by adding them to the list?
My bad for not putting this into the wiki sooner. Right now, the Google Docs is locked out of editing and only in "read-only" view because there were instances in the past where people would just delete the rows not thinking that it affects others viewing the list.

If you promise not to delete any rows and input all the pertinent info (annual fee, rewards, FTF, etc.), I can provide you with edit access. Just shoot me a PM to kebosabi with your gmail address and I'll provide you edit access.

Thanks for helping out!


As of October 2014, no USA-based card issuer offers Chip-and-PIN priority cards except for BMO Harris (Diners Club) and UN Federal Credit Union. Other major USA-based banks such as BofA, Chase, Citi, as well as others issue Chip-and-Signature cards which may work at many automated kiosks. However, bear in mind the word may is used above is a context where there is no absolute certainty of success for certain environments such as automated kiosks due to different natures of offline and online transactions. It is highly recommended to read Post #3 which lists real life FTer examples on how Chip-and-Signature worked and did not work at various transaction environments.

Can I upgrade it right now?
If it's listed on that Google Docs spreadsheet or SFOAMS' Silk page, wouldn't hurt to call/twitter them for a free upgrade. If you get the response you don't like, hang up, try again.

What is the difference between Chip-and-Signature and Chip-and-PIN?
You insert the chipped card into the slot. The physical contact terminal will read the EMV chip and the terminal will automatically read the preferred cardholder verification methods (called CVM) for that card.

Chip-and-Signature means that the terminal will printout a receipt for you to sign. This is the most prevalent authentication for most US issued EMV cards. Chip-and-Signature helps in a way that it will get through to face-to-face merchant transactions where you and the merchant do not speak the same language.

Chip-and-PIN means that the terminal will prompt you to input a PIN for authentication. Some credit union issued credit cards will have this CVM as secondary if Chip-and-Signature cannot be done. Chip-and-PIN is the more prevalent method of authentication used outside the US, especially in transaction environments where no human interaction is needed (i.e. automated gas pumps, toll roads, train kiosks, etc.).

The Google Docs spreadsheet will list which CVM are used in the EMV cards listed. Some cards can only do Chip-and-Signature. Other cards can do both Chip-and-Signature and Chip-and-PIN. And others might have a third option called No CVM (no authentication needed) which is reserved for low value transactions.

One chip can hold a lot more data, therefore it is capable of doing multiple verification methods. That's one of the great things about EMV over the mag-stripe which can hold very little data.

I want to know for sure what my EMV chip does. Is there anyway I can test out my own EMV card to see what the CVM list is?
alexmt has written up a nice step-by-step procedure on Post #3615.

If most of the EMV cards in the US is the Chip-and-Signature type, doesn't that mean it's still useless abroad?
Depends if you see it as glass half empty or glass half full. See Post #3 for further details on how Chip-and-Signature has worked both successfully and unsuccessfully depending on the merchant transaction environment and use your best judgment whether which one is right for you.

Are there any places in the US that are accepting transactions via the EMV chip?
tmiw has created a dedicated Google maps webpage to show where EMV has been proven to work here: http://emvacceptedhere.com/ Per his Post #4240, feel free to add any places with active EMV terminals if you come across one.

As of 2014/05, the EMV terminals in most Walmarts and Sam's Clubs are being turned on. Hence, the best place to try them out would be your local Walmart or Sam's Club. For other merchants, it's slowly being phased in.

I hope people will post them in the Post your receipt of your 1st EMV based transaction in the US thread. cvarming has shown us an EMV transaction receipt from Brooklyn, NY in Post #2380. I myself had my first EMV based (Chip-and-Signature) transaction in two stores in the Los Angeles area, as shown in detail in Post #2705 (courtesy of WhatWhatTech for pointing these two stores out)

I don't want a chip in my card. I heard horror stories all over the media saying hackers can steal my credit card info from a mile away.
There are two types of chips. One is contactless and the other is contact. Cards can be either one or the other, or both.

In the Google Docs spreadsheet, the cards that are capable of contactless payments are listed seperately under the "RFID or NFC contactless chip" column. If it says yes, then that means it has the ability to do contactless payments. If it says no, it doesn't have that feature.

The one that the media has overhyped about hackers "stealing your information wirelessly" was the contactless type like this:

You are worried about this happening, right?

You don't have to worry. EMV is a chip standard that can have both contact and contactless interfaces. With the traditional contact interface, this means you actually have to physically insert the chip into a POS terminal for it to be authorized, like this:

With the contact interface, nothing is wireless. No data is sent out in a stand-alone contact type EMV chip. With the EMV contactless interface, data is sent wirelessly.

Furthermore, contactless chip cards are required to show a symbol (looks like Wi-Fi symbol) somewhere on the card that to denote it's capability as a contactless card. For example, here's an example of a Discover Card with contactless capability (in which Discover calls "Discover ZIP") showing the contactless symbol on the back of the card:

Don't believe everything that the media says. Besides, millions of people all over the world from London to Singapore, uses contactless payments daily in extremely crowded subways and mass transit with nary any problems. There are multiple layers of encrypted securities and keys that are needed to break the code.

Frankly, giving your physical card to a waiter/waitress who takes the card out of your view is much more susceptible to fraud than contactless payments.

Why should I care?
If you are an international traveler, you will want this because majority of the world has or in the process of converting to this payment format.


In fact, in 2012, even North Korea moved to the EMV format, leaving the US as one of the countries in the world that hasn't done so.

In addition, VISA, MC, AMEX, and Discover have all agreed to incentivize the USA shifting to EMV payments by 2015 by shifting liability for fraudulent transactions to merchants if they do not have EMV equipment and the cardholder has an EMV card. So if you travel internationally or would like to get one before the others, you might be interested in getting one.


BS! I had no problems using my card in [insert whereever country], [insert whatever point in time]
If you stick to the tourist path where they have lots of visitors from the US, you should have no problems using your mag-stripe only card in hotels and restaurants, at least for now. But as things can change as things go forward.

However, consider that once you start taking the off-beaten path, go to non-touristy places where they are not familiar with mag-stripes, rent a car and use toll roads, fill up gas, or try to buy train tickets you might end up into a trouble of the machine not recognizing your card because it lacks the chip. Furthermore, a lot of toll roads, gas pumps, and automated ticket machines lack any human assistance to help you when you need it the most.

But [insert credit card company] told me all merchants that display their logo must accept them! All I have to do is report them for violating their agreements, right?
There are several factors against this.

1. You can only speak English. The merchant representative, most likely a part-time clerk earning minimum wage, speaks in a different language, let's say French. If you have no French language skills, how are you going to get your point across? Are you going to whip out your cell phone at exorbitant int'l roaming charges and hope the customer service is going to translate it for you on the spot? Or maybe you might actually know French. But how about Swahili, Farsi, Balinese, or the multiple languages in mainland China?

2. Just like US, the rest of the world's businesses uses part-time minimum wage workers as cashiers to cut down on labor costs. Most of their SOP training manuals are written by MBA types to not to do anything they are not familiar with. Do not expect them to understand the intricate details of credit card mumbo jumbo. You don't expect Taco Bell employees to understand the minute details of Discover-JCB-Union Pay agreements, right? Same thing the other way around: be respectful as a guest in their country, prepare in advance in their ways, avoid being an "ugly American" stereotype.

3. You are a guest in their country. You are a minority. If 99.9% of their country's people and other tourists from around the world uses EMV, do you really think they are going to accomodate the 0.1% of American tourists who only have mag-stripes credit cards?

4. Again, you are a guest in their country. How would you, as an American standing in line, react if a Chinese tourist was clogging up the lines at a local Taco Bell because the clerk doesn't understand the Discover-Union Pay agreement and has trouble communicating between Mandarin spoken by the tourist and English spoken by the Taco Bell clerk? Same way the other way around. You do not want to clog up the lines for everyone. The less hassle, the better.

5. VISA and MC make tons of money from merchants in that country. Say SNCF French Rail. It's a billion dollar company in France. Do you think VISA is going to pull the plug of their relationship with SNCF because SNCF refuses to do mag-stripe processing at their unmanned train station kiosk? Of course not. Be realistic.

6. And lastly, if you're up against an unstaffed toll kiosk, gas pump or train ticket machine, are you going to yell curses at the machine?

But I want my credit card to be able to be used in the US too!
No worries. They have not gotten rid of the mag-stripe on the back of the card for backward compatibility reasons, just like we still have embossed numbers on our cards for backwards compatibility to using those old carbon copy imprinters.

[insert own Hyatt card image front and back together with red arrows pointing to all the backward compatibility features]

You use the chip on the front of the card abroad (for now), and the mag-stripe just like any other card for the US. Basically, you're increasing your credit card's acceptance rate by getting a card that both via the chip and the mag-stripe. You're getting a better deal for free.

And when 2015 comes along and US switches to EMV, you'll be way ahead of everyone else too!


So why did the rest of the world and the US moved/moving toward EMV?
Primarily, due to fraud concerns. You see, the mag-stripe has been with us since the 1950s. It may have been the most high tech thing back in the day, but with the technology that is available today, any shmo can pick up a $100 USB magnetic card skimming device off of eBay and get your credit card info.

And unlike skimming off contactless cards which actually need the person to have l33t programming skills, skimming off a magnetic stripe has become so ubiquitous that nary a day goes about skimming fraud going on somewhere in America, from gas pumps, Michael's stores (2011), Target breaches (2013), restaurant waiters/waitresses, to even McDonald's drive thrus.

https://www.google.com/search?q=skimming+fraud

These type of fraud used to be prevalent in Europe. But once they started switching over to EMV starting over 2 decades ago, this type of fraud went elsewhere. It went over to Asia, Canada and Mexico, Latin America, etc. etc. until they too began implementing EMV to combat skimming fraud. The US is practically the only country left that hasn't done so, therefore all the fraud that used to take place elsewhere is now happening here.


But EMV is old and it's not fool proof. Shouldn't we just skip over it and do something new instead?
Yes, EMV is old. It was developed in the 1990s and its smart card payment predecessor was first introduced in France. But as of today, it has become the defacto global standard of payments.

But then, what else is there? There is no other de facto global standard of payments alternative. For example, if we decide to skip over it and do something new, hypothetically like DNA matching technology, it still means US int'l travelers will continue to have problems abroad with useless plastic acceptance because no other country is using this DNA matching technology except the US.

Besides, nothing is fool proof. You can say that the bank vault isn't fool proof because you can crack it open if enough C4 is used. But your average low-life scumbag isn't likely to get military grade C4 easily either. But the bank vault does make it harder to get the bank's money over say a petty cash box. That's the point here. EMV is akin to a security tight bank vault, the old mag-stripe is akin to a petty cash box lying around inside the drawer.


I'm a business owner and I don't think EMV is going to take off. I'm not going to spend extra hundreds of dollars to upgrade my credit card machine. Convince me other wise why I should.
I can understand the added extra cost to your business once this switchover takes place. But before even saying that, look at your existing POS terminal. Does it have a slot somewhere to insert a card?

Most likely, if you had replaced your POS terminal within the past five years, you already have an EMV capable terminal. EMV is basically just not turned on yet from the processor and acquirer side.

If you have an EMV capable terminal, then a best bet would be to contact your acquirer to have the EMV feature turned on. You did your end of the deal already by having an EMV capable terminal, it is now the acquirers' responsibility to turn it on in accordance to the EMV switchover mandate.

And if you don't, you are going to replace your POS terminal anyway from common wear and tear. It isn't a hard switch-over. You can continue to use your POS terminal until it dies out because EMV cardholders will still have the mag-stripe on the back. And by the time your non-EMV capable POS terminal is up for replacement the market will be full with these newer POS terminals that can accept the mag-stripe, EMV, as well as contactless payments.

In addition, you may also want to check with your acquirer or processor about EMV capable terminals. Some of them are willing to replace your terminal for free in preparation for the US EMV switchover. Call and ask for details.


But what's in it for me? I'm the one that has to pay for the upgrade.
All the major card networks have given incentives for merchants for the upcoming EMV switchover.

If 75% or more of your credit card transactions are done on an EMV contact and contactless terminal, they are going to waive your annual PCI-DSS fees, which usually costs you around $5.00-$19.95/month per terminal. The overall long term cost savings of those compliance fees will be larger than the cost of an one time upgrade for the terminal.

The downside is that once EMV switchover happens and if you do not have a POS terminal that is able to accept EMV, the fraud liability shifts over to the merchant.

I own several fast food franchises. If I upgrade my POS terminals at all of my restaurants, it's going to cost me thousands, if not millions. I don't think anyone is going to use a fake credit card to buy $5 burgers. And if they do, wouldn't it be cheaper for me to eat the fraud cost?
Remember also that fraud isn't just committed by dishonest customers using fraudulent cards. Fraud can also happen with dishonest employees skimming off credit card data from the mag-stripe as in the case of a teenage McDonald's drive thru employee skimming off $13,000 of customers' credit cards in Olympia, WA. Consider the public relations fall out that your business may have if this happens (i.e. the big Target breach of 2013, where someone used a mag stripe card to load malware INTO Target's system). Is it worth risking to take such a huge PR disaster?
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USA EMV cards: Availability, Q&A (Chip & PIN -or- Chip & Signature) [2012-2015]

Old Nov 25, 2014, 10:24 pm
  #8266  
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
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Thanks for your ideas.

You are focused on assuring the pin on the chip is updated - that's certainly a worthy goal to achieve eventually in the US.

Since there are so few chip readers in the US, and chip and signature or no cvm take priority over chip and pin for at least now in the US, they will [virtually] always prevent validating the pin any other way than via ATM access.

Thus, I'm hoping that someone has thought of and tested a way to put any card in an ATM and confirm that the pin entered is correct WITHOUT actually doing a cash advance, balance inquiry, or any other transaction that could trigger an ATM or card issuer fee.

The goal remains to simply assure that the pin is correct for at least ATM cash withdrawals using debit or credit cards without actually completing the withdrawal (to avoid fees for simply trying to verify pin is correct) so that it CAN be done when actually desired.

As we know, fixing pin issues while traveling is inconvenient and can range from fairly easy with some banks to impossible (Sun Trust debit card, etc).

Hope that's clearer.

Last edited by uds0; Nov 25, 2014 at 11:39 pm Reason: Sun Trust (NOT Andrews!) will not allow phone pin change without knowing current pin - my sincere apologies to Andrews
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Old Nov 25, 2014, 10:43 pm
  #8267  
 
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Originally Posted by uds0
Thanks for your reasonable response.

Since the darn banks are forcing signature priority here in the US, I'm thinking that the only way to check the pin for validity is to use an ATM (which ALWAYS requires a pin), BUT ATM's typically have fees for accessing other bank's cards, as well as other bank may charge fee for access via other bank's ATM.

I'm looking for a simple way to detect that the pin has been validated via ATM without performing an ATM action that triggers these darn fees. I've been bitten by balance inquiry (what a crock!) and, for most cards, cash advance from ATM has huge fees, so I'm looking for other possible ATM interaction that will provide a unique message when a pin is correct vs incorrect without triggering those darn fees. I have access to BofA (chip and strip reader), US Bank, Wells Fargo, First Tech CU, Onpoint CU, Chase, and a few other bank ATMs locally, as well as 7-11 and Safeway in store ATMs.

Ideas?
ATMs are online and will tell you nothing. Without running custom code as mentioned above, you literally will not find a place in the US (and probably Canada) that will use the offline PIN of that card. There are only a handful of terminals in the world that will require it.
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Old Nov 25, 2014, 11:35 pm
  #8268  
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So apparently Discover isn't going to issue EMV cards until the end of December. But as we all know, CSRs are not reliable sources of information; the last time I asked they claimed it would happen in 2015, for instance.

Originally Posted by alexmt
ATMs are online and will tell you nothing. Without running custom code as mentioned above, you literally will not find a place in the US (and probably Canada) that will use the offline PIN of that card. There are only a handful of terminals in the world that will require it.
I just remembered that before August he could have gone to Australia and asked to use PIN at some terminals. That's not in the US though. Honestly, if the phone system doesn't error on you the PIN is most definitely changed on their end and there's no need to test with an ATM. Just make sure to use it at Walmart or something before you leave.
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Old Nov 26, 2014, 12:20 am
  #8269  
 
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Originally Posted by alexmt
ATMs are online and will tell you nothing. Without running custom code as mentioned above, you literally will not find a place in the US (and probably Canada) that will use the offline PIN of that card. There are only a handful of terminals in the world that will require it.
Agreed, and again, I am not looking to verify the offline pin on the chip, or even online pin using the chip. All I want to do is the most basic first step: verify that the pin I believe is correct and thus enter at the ATM actually is the same pin recorded in the bank's record for that card WITHOUT triggering a potential ATM or card issuer fee now by actually DOING a cash withdrawal/advance or balance inquiry, so that I can now have confidence that I can LATER actually do a cash withdrawal/advance or balance inquiry successfully at any ATM here or abroad (and suffer the fees, if any, at that time). The ATM used to let me know when the pin was wrong without attempting any actual transaction, but they "improved" it to waste my time by getting to the end of a transaction before bailing and even then only now provide a message that is generic and doesn't reveal whether the pin was the issue. Thus, I only know if the pin was correct by the transaction completing without any error - too late to prevent any fee from being assessed.

Hope I finally got it clearer.

Once the online pin is known to be correct, only then can the pin on the chip verification process be pursued. Currently that only seems possible abroad due to virtually universal chip and signature priority of US issued cards, except for Diner's Club MC and UN FCO (only cards currently having pin priority?)

Last edited by uds0; Nov 26, 2014 at 1:18 am
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Old Nov 26, 2014, 2:44 am
  #8270  
 
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Originally Posted by uds0
Agreed, and again, I am not looking to verify the offline pin on the chip, or even online pin using the chip. All I want to do is the most basic first step: verify that the pin I believe is correct and thus enter at the ATM actually is the same pin recorded in the bank's record for that card WITHOUT triggering a potential ATM or card issuer fee now by actually DOING a cash withdrawal/advance or balance inquiry, so that I can now have confidence that I can LATER actually do a cash withdrawal/advance or balance inquiry successfully at any ATM here or abroad (and suffer the fees, if any, at that time). The ATM used to let me know when the pin was wrong without attempting any actual transaction, but they "improved" it to waste my time by getting to the end of a transaction before bailing and even then only now provide a message that is generic and doesn't reveal whether the pin was the issue. Thus, I only know if the pin was correct by the transaction completing without any error - too late to prevent any fee from being assessed.

Hope I finally got it clearer.

Once the online pin is known to be correct, only then can the pin on the chip verification process be pursued. Currently that only seems possible abroad due to virtually universal chip and signature priority of US issued cards, except for Diner's Club MC and UN FCO (only cards currently having pin priority?)
If it set without error on the website, and you've made a few chip transactions, you should be fine. Remember the PIN on the chip is a worst case scenario. Even most PIN-only kiosks will use the online PIN since it is the priority. There's no guarantees, but you're putting far more effort into this than the hassle will be if it doesn't work. The card is far more likely to get declined as suspected stolen or to just randomly not work than it is for your PIN to not be processed correctly.
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Old Nov 26, 2014, 9:47 am
  #8271  
 
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I found out my bank M&T bank all of their credit cards are chip and pin. There is no annual fee with the cards, and no foreign transaction fee. They have about 3 or 4 cards to choose from. I called to find out if they were chip &pin chip & signature the rep assured they were chip & pin and you chose the pin. YMMV.
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Old Nov 26, 2014, 9:56 am
  #8272  
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Originally Posted by powerlifter
I found out my bank M&T bank all of their credit cards are chip and pin. There is no annual fee with the cards, and no foreign transaction fee. They have about 3 or 4 cards to choose from. I called to find out if they were chip &pin chip & signature the rep assured they were chip & pin and you chose the pin. YMMV.
The cards might be signature preferring, actually. From https://www.mtb.com/personal/loanscr...card-faqs.aspx:

Do I need a PIN to use my card?

You may be asked to enter your PIN when using your new M&T Bank Visa Credit Card at a chip enabled merchant location. In other instances you may simply be asked to sign a receipt as you do today**. The merchant terminal will guide you through the transaction.
Basically, if it asks for a PIN at somewhere with a cashier (e.g. Walmart), it prefers PIN.
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Old Nov 26, 2014, 10:42 am
  #8273  
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I love this quote:

"Chip Technology replaces Visa payWave." An apple here ...an orange there.
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Old Nov 26, 2014, 12:13 pm
  #8274  
 
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Funny story at LHR

Had breakfast this morning at a hotel near LHR. At the end of the meal, asked the waitress to bring over the credit card machine. I handed her my UNFCU card and, I'm assuming based on my accent, she immediately handed me a pen, before even dipping the card. She seemed genuinely surprised when the machine prompted for a PIN.
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Old Nov 26, 2014, 12:24 pm
  #8275  
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I'll take that over yanking back the chip machine with a "No soup for you!" like denial (or rolling her eyes).
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Old Nov 26, 2014, 12:52 pm
  #8276  
 
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Originally Posted by powerlifter
I found out my bank M&T bank all of their credit cards are chip and pin. There is no annual fee with the cards, and no foreign transaction fee. They have about 3 or 4 cards to choose from. I called to find out if they were chip &pin chip & signature the rep assured they were chip & pin and you chose the pin. YMMV.
Most likely signature priority given the web site language and trend in US.

Also worth noting, if you are traveling and forget your pin, you are basically screwed (like with Sun Trust) since you can't set or reset your pin over the phone without knowing your current pin - and they ONLY mail your pin reminder, and ONLY to your account address on file.

What are they thinking?

Also note that the replacement chip card eliminates the PayWave feature and only the Signature card has no foreign transaction fee (and should not have 1% VISA ISA fee since other cards have 3% fee which typically includes 1% ISA fee?). Lots of fine print including balance or transaction requirement variety and free or subscription cost to get non-M&T ATM fees reimbursed.

Last edited by uds0; Nov 26, 2014 at 1:11 pm
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Old Nov 26, 2014, 1:08 pm
  #8277  
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Wells Fargo makes it VERY clear that they will ONLY send my PIN to my address-of-record. I kind of like that as I see it as treating me as a responsible adult.
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Old Nov 26, 2014, 1:20 pm
  #8278  
 
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Originally Posted by Points Scrounger
Wells Fargo makes it VERY clear that they will ONLY send my PIN to my address-of-record. I kind of like that as I see it as treating me as a responsible adult.


This has been true, generally, for PINs (including on ATM/debit cards) for as long as I've had them. If you don't know your PIN, you need to wait for the mailer via USPS.
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Old Nov 26, 2014, 1:30 pm
  #8279  
 
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Originally Posted by Points Scrounger
Wells Fargo makes it VERY clear that they will ONLY send my PIN to my address-of-record. I kind of like that as I see it as treating me as a responsible adult.
Agree that if the bank refuses to be reasonable about providing a method that can be used while you are traveling, sending it to only your address-of-record is probably the next best alternative.

A respectful and still responsible bank would support you getting authenticated via security questions without any loss of security, then you could reset the pin via that call instead of being locked out of the card if you forget the pin (or be required to reset due to fraud) while traveling.

Mail is potentially exposed to thieves (even inside the postal system) who can get the pin and send it on to you with you none the wiser. Another man-in-the-middle security risk.
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Old Nov 26, 2014, 1:46 pm
  #8280  
 
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Pin reset/change done right - Andrews VISA - no current pin required, no mail ONLY

From Andrews FCU EMV website page:

Below are the instructions for member selected PINs on credit cards:

To Change your PIN call: 888-886-0083

You will be asked to complete these simple steps:
1) Enter your account number.
2) Verify security questions.
3) Enter your new PIN (any combination of 4 numbers).
4) Re-enter your new PIN.
5) Youre done! Your new PIN will work immediately for swiped and ATM transactions. Please note, chip based transactions may take several transactions/merchants to update, your old PIN may be required until the chip is successfully updated.

(They added the last sentence after I reminded them that if the pin is changed via phone, until the card is used at a chip reader online to update the pin on the chip, the old pin remains on the chip and will possibly be required at offline chip reader terminals.)

So don't toss that previous pin until doing at least one (maybe a few for safety) a purchase at a online chip reading terminal.
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