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USA EMV cards: Availability, Q&A (Chip & PIN -or- Chip & Signature) [2012-2015]

Old Sep 20, 2013, 11:40 am
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Last edit by: philemer
Posts from 1/1/16 onward can be found here: http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/credit-card-programs/1739359-2016-onward-usa-emv-cards-availability-q-chip-pin-signature.html

EMV wikipost volunteers: kebosabi

What is EMV?
EMV is a defacto global standard of technology where there is a visible microchip on the front of the card. It looks like this:

Who issues them?
See Google Docs spreadsheet in Post #1

SFOAMS also has created a list of excellent webpage that shows US EMV cards in a more interactive interface

Another site, which lets you narrow the search for an EMV card by various parameters, is http://www.spotterswiki.com/emv/index.php.

Several credit unions issue some form of Chip-and-PIN credit cards or prepaid cards. Prepaid EMV cards however are not recommended due to junk fees. USAA (currently restricted to members of military) used to offer Chip-and-PIN cards, but as late has backtracked to Chip-and-Signature priority.

Hey that's a cool Google Docs list! I know others that aren't on that list. How can I help by adding them to the list?
My bad for not putting this into the wiki sooner. Right now, the Google Docs is locked out of editing and only in "read-only" view because there were instances in the past where people would just delete the rows not thinking that it affects others viewing the list.

If you promise not to delete any rows and input all the pertinent info (annual fee, rewards, FTF, etc.), I can provide you with edit access. Just shoot me a PM to kebosabi with your gmail address and I'll provide you edit access.

Thanks for helping out!


As of October 2014, no USA-based card issuer offers Chip-and-PIN priority cards except for BMO Harris (Diners Club) and UN Federal Credit Union. Other major USA-based banks such as BofA, Chase, Citi, as well as others issue Chip-and-Signature cards which may work at many automated kiosks. However, bear in mind the word may is used above is a context where there is no absolute certainty of success for certain environments such as automated kiosks due to different natures of offline and online transactions. It is highly recommended to read Post #3 which lists real life FTer examples on how Chip-and-Signature worked and did not work at various transaction environments.

Can I upgrade it right now?
If it's listed on that Google Docs spreadsheet or SFOAMS' Silk page, wouldn't hurt to call/twitter them for a free upgrade. If you get the response you don't like, hang up, try again.

What is the difference between Chip-and-Signature and Chip-and-PIN?
You insert the chipped card into the slot. The physical contact terminal will read the EMV chip and the terminal will automatically read the preferred cardholder verification methods (called CVM) for that card.

Chip-and-Signature means that the terminal will printout a receipt for you to sign. This is the most prevalent authentication for most US issued EMV cards. Chip-and-Signature helps in a way that it will get through to face-to-face merchant transactions where you and the merchant do not speak the same language.

Chip-and-PIN means that the terminal will prompt you to input a PIN for authentication. Some credit union issued credit cards will have this CVM as secondary if Chip-and-Signature cannot be done. Chip-and-PIN is the more prevalent method of authentication used outside the US, especially in transaction environments where no human interaction is needed (i.e. automated gas pumps, toll roads, train kiosks, etc.).

The Google Docs spreadsheet will list which CVM are used in the EMV cards listed. Some cards can only do Chip-and-Signature. Other cards can do both Chip-and-Signature and Chip-and-PIN. And others might have a third option called No CVM (no authentication needed) which is reserved for low value transactions.

One chip can hold a lot more data, therefore it is capable of doing multiple verification methods. That's one of the great things about EMV over the mag-stripe which can hold very little data.

I want to know for sure what my EMV chip does. Is there anyway I can test out my own EMV card to see what the CVM list is?
alexmt has written up a nice step-by-step procedure on Post #3615.

If most of the EMV cards in the US is the Chip-and-Signature type, doesn't that mean it's still useless abroad?
Depends if you see it as glass half empty or glass half full. See Post #3 for further details on how Chip-and-Signature has worked both successfully and unsuccessfully depending on the merchant transaction environment and use your best judgment whether which one is right for you.

Are there any places in the US that are accepting transactions via the EMV chip?
tmiw has created a dedicated Google maps webpage to show where EMV has been proven to work here: http://emvacceptedhere.com/ Per his Post #4240, feel free to add any places with active EMV terminals if you come across one.

As of 2014/05, the EMV terminals in most Walmarts and Sam's Clubs are being turned on. Hence, the best place to try them out would be your local Walmart or Sam's Club. For other merchants, it's slowly being phased in.

I hope people will post them in the Post your receipt of your 1st EMV based transaction in the US thread. cvarming has shown us an EMV transaction receipt from Brooklyn, NY in Post #2380. I myself had my first EMV based (Chip-and-Signature) transaction in two stores in the Los Angeles area, as shown in detail in Post #2705 (courtesy of WhatWhatTech for pointing these two stores out)

I don't want a chip in my card. I heard horror stories all over the media saying hackers can steal my credit card info from a mile away.
There are two types of chips. One is contactless and the other is contact. Cards can be either one or the other, or both.

In the Google Docs spreadsheet, the cards that are capable of contactless payments are listed seperately under the "RFID or NFC contactless chip" column. If it says yes, then that means it has the ability to do contactless payments. If it says no, it doesn't have that feature.

The one that the media has overhyped about hackers "stealing your information wirelessly" was the contactless type like this:

You are worried about this happening, right?

You don't have to worry. EMV is a chip standard that can have both contact and contactless interfaces. With the traditional contact interface, this means you actually have to physically insert the chip into a POS terminal for it to be authorized, like this:

With the contact interface, nothing is wireless. No data is sent out in a stand-alone contact type EMV chip. With the EMV contactless interface, data is sent wirelessly.

Furthermore, contactless chip cards are required to show a symbol (looks like Wi-Fi symbol) somewhere on the card that to denote it's capability as a contactless card. For example, here's an example of a Discover Card with contactless capability (in which Discover calls "Discover ZIP") showing the contactless symbol on the back of the card:

Don't believe everything that the media says. Besides, millions of people all over the world from London to Singapore, uses contactless payments daily in extremely crowded subways and mass transit with nary any problems. There are multiple layers of encrypted securities and keys that are needed to break the code.

Frankly, giving your physical card to a waiter/waitress who takes the card out of your view is much more susceptible to fraud than contactless payments.

Why should I care?
If you are an international traveler, you will want this because majority of the world has or in the process of converting to this payment format.


In fact, in 2012, even North Korea moved to the EMV format, leaving the US as one of the countries in the world that hasn't done so.

In addition, VISA, MC, AMEX, and Discover have all agreed to incentivize the USA shifting to EMV payments by 2015 by shifting liability for fraudulent transactions to merchants if they do not have EMV equipment and the cardholder has an EMV card. So if you travel internationally or would like to get one before the others, you might be interested in getting one.


BS! I had no problems using my card in [insert whereever country], [insert whatever point in time]
If you stick to the tourist path where they have lots of visitors from the US, you should have no problems using your mag-stripe only card in hotels and restaurants, at least for now. But as things can change as things go forward.

However, consider that once you start taking the off-beaten path, go to non-touristy places where they are not familiar with mag-stripes, rent a car and use toll roads, fill up gas, or try to buy train tickets you might end up into a trouble of the machine not recognizing your card because it lacks the chip. Furthermore, a lot of toll roads, gas pumps, and automated ticket machines lack any human assistance to help you when you need it the most.

But [insert credit card company] told me all merchants that display their logo must accept them! All I have to do is report them for violating their agreements, right?
There are several factors against this.

1. You can only speak English. The merchant representative, most likely a part-time clerk earning minimum wage, speaks in a different language, let's say French. If you have no French language skills, how are you going to get your point across? Are you going to whip out your cell phone at exorbitant int'l roaming charges and hope the customer service is going to translate it for you on the spot? Or maybe you might actually know French. But how about Swahili, Farsi, Balinese, or the multiple languages in mainland China?

2. Just like US, the rest of the world's businesses uses part-time minimum wage workers as cashiers to cut down on labor costs. Most of their SOP training manuals are written by MBA types to not to do anything they are not familiar with. Do not expect them to understand the intricate details of credit card mumbo jumbo. You don't expect Taco Bell employees to understand the minute details of Discover-JCB-Union Pay agreements, right? Same thing the other way around: be respectful as a guest in their country, prepare in advance in their ways, avoid being an "ugly American" stereotype.

3. You are a guest in their country. You are a minority. If 99.9% of their country's people and other tourists from around the world uses EMV, do you really think they are going to accomodate the 0.1% of American tourists who only have mag-stripes credit cards?

4. Again, you are a guest in their country. How would you, as an American standing in line, react if a Chinese tourist was clogging up the lines at a local Taco Bell because the clerk doesn't understand the Discover-Union Pay agreement and has trouble communicating between Mandarin spoken by the tourist and English spoken by the Taco Bell clerk? Same way the other way around. You do not want to clog up the lines for everyone. The less hassle, the better.

5. VISA and MC make tons of money from merchants in that country. Say SNCF French Rail. It's a billion dollar company in France. Do you think VISA is going to pull the plug of their relationship with SNCF because SNCF refuses to do mag-stripe processing at their unmanned train station kiosk? Of course not. Be realistic.

6. And lastly, if you're up against an unstaffed toll kiosk, gas pump or train ticket machine, are you going to yell curses at the machine?

But I want my credit card to be able to be used in the US too!
No worries. They have not gotten rid of the mag-stripe on the back of the card for backward compatibility reasons, just like we still have embossed numbers on our cards for backwards compatibility to using those old carbon copy imprinters.

[insert own Hyatt card image front and back together with red arrows pointing to all the backward compatibility features]

You use the chip on the front of the card abroad (for now), and the mag-stripe just like any other card for the US. Basically, you're increasing your credit card's acceptance rate by getting a card that both via the chip and the mag-stripe. You're getting a better deal for free.

And when 2015 comes along and US switches to EMV, you'll be way ahead of everyone else too!


So why did the rest of the world and the US moved/moving toward EMV?
Primarily, due to fraud concerns. You see, the mag-stripe has been with us since the 1950s. It may have been the most high tech thing back in the day, but with the technology that is available today, any shmo can pick up a $100 USB magnetic card skimming device off of eBay and get your credit card info.

And unlike skimming off contactless cards which actually need the person to have l33t programming skills, skimming off a magnetic stripe has become so ubiquitous that nary a day goes about skimming fraud going on somewhere in America, from gas pumps, Michael's stores (2011), Target breaches (2013), restaurant waiters/waitresses, to even McDonald's drive thrus.

https://www.google.com/search?q=skimming+fraud

These type of fraud used to be prevalent in Europe. But once they started switching over to EMV starting over 2 decades ago, this type of fraud went elsewhere. It went over to Asia, Canada and Mexico, Latin America, etc. etc. until they too began implementing EMV to combat skimming fraud. The US is practically the only country left that hasn't done so, therefore all the fraud that used to take place elsewhere is now happening here.


But EMV is old and it's not fool proof. Shouldn't we just skip over it and do something new instead?
Yes, EMV is old. It was developed in the 1990s and its smart card payment predecessor was first introduced in France. But as of today, it has become the defacto global standard of payments.

But then, what else is there? There is no other de facto global standard of payments alternative. For example, if we decide to skip over it and do something new, hypothetically like DNA matching technology, it still means US int'l travelers will continue to have problems abroad with useless plastic acceptance because no other country is using this DNA matching technology except the US.

Besides, nothing is fool proof. You can say that the bank vault isn't fool proof because you can crack it open if enough C4 is used. But your average low-life scumbag isn't likely to get military grade C4 easily either. But the bank vault does make it harder to get the bank's money over say a petty cash box. That's the point here. EMV is akin to a security tight bank vault, the old mag-stripe is akin to a petty cash box lying around inside the drawer.


I'm a business owner and I don't think EMV is going to take off. I'm not going to spend extra hundreds of dollars to upgrade my credit card machine. Convince me other wise why I should.
I can understand the added extra cost to your business once this switchover takes place. But before even saying that, look at your existing POS terminal. Does it have a slot somewhere to insert a card?

Most likely, if you had replaced your POS terminal within the past five years, you already have an EMV capable terminal. EMV is basically just not turned on yet from the processor and acquirer side.

If you have an EMV capable terminal, then a best bet would be to contact your acquirer to have the EMV feature turned on. You did your end of the deal already by having an EMV capable terminal, it is now the acquirers' responsibility to turn it on in accordance to the EMV switchover mandate.

And if you don't, you are going to replace your POS terminal anyway from common wear and tear. It isn't a hard switch-over. You can continue to use your POS terminal until it dies out because EMV cardholders will still have the mag-stripe on the back. And by the time your non-EMV capable POS terminal is up for replacement the market will be full with these newer POS terminals that can accept the mag-stripe, EMV, as well as contactless payments.

In addition, you may also want to check with your acquirer or processor about EMV capable terminals. Some of them are willing to replace your terminal for free in preparation for the US EMV switchover. Call and ask for details.


But what's in it for me? I'm the one that has to pay for the upgrade.
All the major card networks have given incentives for merchants for the upcoming EMV switchover.

If 75% or more of your credit card transactions are done on an EMV contact and contactless terminal, they are going to waive your annual PCI-DSS fees, which usually costs you around $5.00-$19.95/month per terminal. The overall long term cost savings of those compliance fees will be larger than the cost of an one time upgrade for the terminal.

The downside is that once EMV switchover happens and if you do not have a POS terminal that is able to accept EMV, the fraud liability shifts over to the merchant.

I own several fast food franchises. If I upgrade my POS terminals at all of my restaurants, it's going to cost me thousands, if not millions. I don't think anyone is going to use a fake credit card to buy $5 burgers. And if they do, wouldn't it be cheaper for me to eat the fraud cost?
Remember also that fraud isn't just committed by dishonest customers using fraudulent cards. Fraud can also happen with dishonest employees skimming off credit card data from the mag-stripe as in the case of a teenage McDonald's drive thru employee skimming off $13,000 of customers' credit cards in Olympia, WA. Consider the public relations fall out that your business may have if this happens (i.e. the big Target breach of 2013, where someone used a mag stripe card to load malware INTO Target's system). Is it worth risking to take such a huge PR disaster?
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USA EMV cards: Availability, Q&A (Chip & PIN -or- Chip & Signature) [2012-2015]

Old May 22, 2014, 11:41 pm
  #4486  
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 401
Yet another EMV vulnerability has been disclosed:


EMV, also known as “Chip and PIN”, is the
leading system for card payments worldwide. It is used
throughout Europe and much of Asia, and is starting to be
introduced in North America too. Payment cards contain a
chip so they can execute an authentication protocol. This
protocol requires point-of-sale (POS) terminals or ATMs to
generate a nonce, called the unpredictable number, for each
transaction to ensure it is fresh. We have discovered two serious
problems: a widespread implementation flaw and a deeper,
more difficult to fix flaw with the EMV protocol itself. The
first flaw is that some EMV implementers have merely used
counters, timestamps or home-grown algorithms to supply this
nonce. This exposes them to a “pre-play” attack which is
indistinguishable from card cloning from the standpoint of the
logs available to the card-issuing bank, and can be carried out
even if it is impossible to clone a card physically. Card cloning
is the very type of fraud that EMV was supposed to prevent.
We describe how we detected the vulnerability, a survey
methodology we developed to chart the scope of the weakness,
evidence from ATM and terminal experiments in the field, and
our implementation of proof-of-concept attacks. We found flaws
in widely-used ATMs from the largest manufacturers.

http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~sjm217/pape...hipandskim.pdf


Here is a less technical article:
http://threatpost.com/researchers-fi...ation-protocol


--Wow 300 pages! (assuming default posts/page).
emvchip is offline  
Old May 22, 2014, 11:48 pm
  #4487  
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 401
Mastercard and Discover's Pulse are cooperating to streamline EMV debit transactions, which are complicated in the US due to requirements for competing networks available to merchants:

http://www.finextra.com/news/announc...24&topic=cards
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Old May 22, 2014, 11:49 pm
  #4488  
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,762
300 pages and growing. (Not that it seems that anything radically is going to change in the near future). Do you think there is anybody out there who wishes to go through all 300 pages? It's really time to close this thread and start a new one.
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Old May 23, 2014, 12:24 am
  #4489  
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 31
The first flaw is an implementation flaw, which isn't exactly a flaw. It is more of improper setup.

The second flaw requires middle-man attack, meaning the terminal has to be compromised for the attack to work.
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Old May 23, 2014, 12:29 am
  #4490  
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BTW, how much of a price difference is there between a terminal that only supports C&S and one with a PIN pad?
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Old May 23, 2014, 1:01 am
  #4491  
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,537
Holy freaking boatload of posts "emvchip" - wow.

Anyway, what's your "understanding" of Chase's chip and PIN plan based upon? Given it was announced after Target talked, it sounded at least semi-likely to be real chip and PIN cards.

Why do you say the Diner's Club doesn't allow signature? Is that based on the CVM list or on speculation? How many terminals in the world really don't support PIN?

Agreed humans are unpredictable, though today at Walmart at a register the chip failed at they made me use a different lane rather than let me try it until it let me swipe (said, oh you can't use a chip card in this lane). That was a simple "card problem" error.

In the next lane, I again had the issue I've been having with my Delta Gold Amex where it takes a few tries to go through...
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Old May 23, 2014, 3:07 am
  #4492  
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,762
Originally Posted by alexmt
Holy freaking boatload of posts "emvchip" - wow.

Anyway, what's your "understanding" of Chase's chip and PIN plan based upon? Given it was announced after Target talked, it sounded at least semi-likely to be real chip and PIN cards.

Why do you say the Diner's Club doesn't allow signature? Is that based on the CVM list or on speculation? How many terminals in the world really don't support PIN?

Agreed humans are unpredictable, though today at Walmart at a register the chip failed at they made me use a different lane rather than let me try it until it let me swipe (said, oh you can't use a chip card in this lane). That was a simple "card problem" error.

In the next lane, I again had the issue I've been having with my Delta Gold Amex where it takes a few tries to go through...
Just a guess on my part but one of the reasons I feel Chase will be c&s with c&p capabilities is the decision Barclay's Bank made with the arrival card. Of course it's just a guess but first and foremost, Barclay's with its main office in London obviously has the structure in place to go c&p priority. Moving the back office operatios to its USA subsidiary should not be a big deal. Either they read the tea leaves of what is to come or the banks have been discussing this among themselves (anti trust be damned).

Like I said, I'm not saying I know anything others here don't know but I do think if you step back and try to think this out logically, it's the only conclusion you can reach. Would I be shocked if I'm wrong? No but it just can't be that Barclay's and Amex went in essence the c&s route (Amex also has an infrastructure in place to go c&p as their cards issued in Europe and elsewhere are mandated to be c&p) and it's sort of telling they went c&s with no c&p capabilities. There just has to be something there.
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Old May 23, 2014, 6:56 am
  #4493  
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 401
Originally Posted by alexmt

Anyway, what's your "understanding" of Chase's chip and PIN plan based upon? Given it was announced after Target talked, it sounded at least semi-likely to be real chip and PIN cards.

Why do you say the Diner's Club doesn't allow signature? Is that based on the CVM list or on speculation? How many terminals in the world really don't support PIN?

Agreed humans are unpredictable, though today at Walmart at a register the chip failed at they made me use a different lane rather than let me try it until it let me swipe (said, oh you can't use a chip card in this lane). That was a simple "card problem" error.

In the next lane, I again had the issue I've been having with my Delta Gold Amex where it takes a few tries to go through...
Re: Chase: Bank operations. They are planning to issue real chip and PIN cards, but most will have signature set to a higher priority if the current plan is carried out.
Re: Diners Club: It is based on conversations with technical operations and personal experience in a country that only uses C&S for credit cards.
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Old May 23, 2014, 7:26 am
  #4494  
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,762
Originally Posted by emvchip
Re: Chase: Bank operations. They are planning to issue real chip and PIN cards, but most will have signature set to a higher priority if the current plan is carried out.
Re: Diners Club: It is based on conversations with technical operations and personal experience in a country that only uses C&S for credit cards.
As a former US President once said, "It depends on your definition of real chip and pin card." We and the banks seem to be arguing at cross purposes. So in the interests of clarity, let's try to agree on our definitions.

Suggestion. A real chip and pin card is one with pin verification as the #1 priority (offline or online doesn't really matter). A card with primary chip and signature verification perhaps called a hybrid card for short? (which is what I've been doing). A card without pin capabilities such as the Amex cards issued to US residents is chip and signature? (although even then there might be some questions as some cards that are advertised as pure chip and signature do work with the online cash advance pin in some pos situtions).

Any other suggestions so we can talk the same language?
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Old May 23, 2014, 9:05 am
  #4495  
 
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 6
Originally Posted by JEFFJAGUAR
Welcome. If you have a couple of hours of spare time, you can go through this 290 page thread which is still growing and you will find your answer somewhere.

When several fcu's in the DC area introduced with great (or maybe not so great) fanfare their new generation of chip and pin cards (c&p), we all shouted in harmony hip hip horay or something to that effect. And then we found out the truth when people started using PenFed or State Department or Andrews FCU's supposed c&p card. It's in here somewhere..
You are quite right that their CSR's do not have a clue what their product does. They have been doing a dance around the question of whether this card will work in unmanned terminals (latest word is they won't, but I'm not buying it). Their responses to my questions have been contradictory even within the same email (e.g. at a merchant terminal that requires a PIN it will default to PIN, but at terminals that are unmanned, it won't work because "we require as signature"). I think I'm finally narrowing the issue down to: It's a Chip and Signature card with PIN capability when required. But nobody to date has given me a straight answer, they drag in non-issues like "your card has a magnetic stripe because merchants in the US....blah blah", and "we don't offer a chip-only card".
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Old May 23, 2014, 9:07 am
  #4496  
 
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Originally Posted by D582
I've never seen a UnionPay/Interac combined card - please elaborate. UnionPay cardholders can generally use their cards at ATMs in Canada due to a tie-up between Interac an UnionPay on the backend. This is nothing to do with EMV.
As an aside, here you are, one of my Canadian debit cards. It's a nice one to have- no other bank in Canada would give me an account with unlimited debit transactions for free and no minimum balance. It uses Offline PIN for Interac and Online PIN for UnionPay.



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Old May 23, 2014, 9:10 am
  #4497  
 
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 6
Originally Posted by JEFFJAGUAR
As a former US President once said, "It depends on your definition of real chip and pin card." We and the banks seem to be arguing at cross purposes. So in the interests of clarity, let's try to agree on our definitions.

Suggestion. A real chip and pin card is one with pin verification as the #1 priority (offline or online doesn't really matter). A card with primary chip and signature verification perhaps called a hybrid card for short? (which is what I've been doing). A card without pin capabilities such as the Amex cards issued to US residents is chip and signature? (although even then there might be some questions as some cards that are advertised as pure chip and signature do work with the online cash advance pin in some pos situtions).

Any other suggestions so we can talk the same language?
How about C&P = (or "real" chip and pin) chip and pin with pin priority (i.e. at any terminal that accepts a pin, you will be prompted to enter it),

C&P/s = chip and pin with signature priority (i.e. if the terminal allows a signature you will not be prompted for a pin, but if it requires a PIN, you'll have to enter it)

C&S = chip enabled, signature required (i.e. if the terminal requires a pin you won't be able to use it, only signature enabled terminals will accept your card, but they do read the chip so there is some measure of security against card cloning).

Hope I got the technology correct!
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Old May 23, 2014, 9:26 am
  #4498  
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,762
Originally Posted by prathmell
You are quite right that their CSR's do not have a clue what their product does. They have been doing a dance around the question of whether this card will work in unmanned terminals (latest word is they won't, but I'm not buying it). Their responses to my questions have been contradictory even within the same email (e.g. at a merchant terminal that requires a PIN it will default to PIN, but at terminals that are unmanned, it won't work because "we require as signature"). I think I'm finally narrowing the issue down to: It's a Chip and Signature card with PIN capability when required. But nobody to date has given me a straight answer, they drag in non-issues like "your card has a magnetic stripe because merchants in the US....blah blah", and "we don't offer a chip-only card".
One quick sort of correction to your post. Most reports are the Pen, Andrews and State Department cards do function as advertised in unpersonneled kiosks. I'm sure there have been failures but not an overwhelming number have been reported here. The biggest problem reported here has been the automatic toll gates on some French autoroutes. But then again, that's been an ongoing problem long before this whole emv issue arose. At least that stuff is buried somewhere in here.
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Old May 23, 2014, 9:41 am
  #4499  
 
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Card Holder Liabilities

Originally Posted by alexmt
Also, remember, zero liability in the US isn't due to the law. US law allows them to come after you for the first $50 in fraud losses. Market pressure keeps them from doing so.
Defacto, most US issuers waive the $50. In some other countries, [AUS] they waive it if it's your '1st time'. After that, maybe.

To clarify on [US] credit card liability:

If you lose your credit card, a thief picks it up and uses it, you might be liable for up to $50. The key here is the card is not in your possession. If you report it before it's used, $0.

If the card is still in your possession, you have $0 liability.

The card holder must make timely notification in writing by sending or giving the bank a letter. Even if you 'chat' or email the notification, follow it up in writing since that is the legal requirement for protection to kick in.

Notify within 2 business days for a lost card and 60 days after billed (statement), for an unauthorized transaction when you still have the card in your possession.

The card issuer has to agree this was fraud. They could challenge this in which case you have some aggravation coming in your life. The card issuer could take care of it, or ask you to call the merchant and get them to take it off.

Using a MC/VS Magstripe Credit card with PIN, such as at an ATM may also kill off your protection, since VS/MC do not get to process the transaction on their network. AX is better about this.

Google: "Truth in Lending Act" or "Federal Reserve Board Regulation Z"

There's no reason to believe chip and PIN will change anything for consumers, it's wild speculation to think otherwise.
Speculation yes, but not impossible.

[US] Debit cards have different protections depending on if you use PIN or Signature. Signature at the POS earns more for MC/VS than PIN at the POS with debit. So MC & VS protect you if you debit w/Signature but not with PIN.

In the US, EMV C&S is the standard for CCs, so different liability for C&S and C&P isn't going to happen any time soon, since there aren't going to be a lot of C&P transactions.

As EMV cards & readers rollout now, the system will get stressed for the first time in late August this year with 'Back to School' shopping, then get a volume test for the December 2014 holidays. Those two 'card holder present' events should produce some useable data in terms of total transactions, number of EMV vs Swipe, fraudulent transactions as a percentage of totals & average time per transaction by transaction type. Once that is all in hand, I'm sure the issuers will make their next move.
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Old May 23, 2014, 9:47 am
  #4500  
 
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Originally Posted by jamar
As an aside, here you are, one of my Canadian debit cards. It's a nice one to have- no other bank in Canada would give me an account with unlimited debit transactions for free and no minimum balance. It uses Offline PIN for Interac and Online PIN for UnionPay.



Cool. Does it actually work in places where Union Pay is accepted? Did they allow you to open the account in person in Canada, and can anyone do it?
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