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Old Jan 15, 16, 6:38 pm   -   Wikipost
FlyerTalk Forums Thread Wiki: USA EMV cards: Availability, Q&A (Chip & PIN -or- Chip & Signature) [2012-2015]
Please read: This is a community-maintained wiki post containing the most important information from this thread. You may edit the Wiki once you have been on FT for 90 days and have made 90 posts.
 
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Wiki Link
Posts from 1/1/16 onward can be found here: http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/credi...signature.html

EMV wikipost volunteers: kebosabi

What is EMV?
EMV is a defacto global standard of technology where there is a visible microchip on the front of the card. It looks like this:

Who issues them?
See Google Docs spreadsheet in Post #1

SFOAMS also has created a list of excellent webpage that shows US EMV cards in a more interactive interface

Another site, which lets you narrow the search for an EMV card by various parameters, is http://www.spotterswiki.com/emv/index.php.

Several credit unions issue some form of Chip-and-PIN credit cards or prepaid cards. Prepaid EMV cards however are not recommended due to junk fees. USAA (currently restricted to members of military) used to offer Chip-and-PIN cards, but as late has backtracked to Chip-and-Signature priority.

Hey that's a cool Google Docs list! I know others that aren't on that list. How can I help by adding them to the list?
My bad for not putting this into the wiki sooner. Right now, the Google Docs is locked out of editing and only in "read-only" view because there were instances in the past where people would just delete the rows not thinking that it affects others viewing the list.

If you promise not to delete any rows and input all the pertinent info (annual fee, rewards, FTF, etc.), I can provide you with edit access. Just shoot me a PM to kebosabi with your gmail address and I'll provide you edit access.

Thanks for helping out!


As of October 2014, no USA-based card issuer offers Chip-and-PIN priority cards except for BMO Harris (Diners Club) and UN Federal Credit Union. Other major USA-based banks such as BofA, Chase, Citi, as well as others issue Chip-and-Signature cards which may work at many automated kiosks. However, bear in mind the word may is used above is a context where there is no absolute certainty of success for certain environments such as automated kiosks due to different natures of offline and online transactions. It is highly recommended to read Post #3 which lists real life FTer examples on how Chip-and-Signature worked and did not work at various transaction environments.

Can I upgrade it right now?
If it's listed on that Google Docs spreadsheet or SFOAMS' Silk page, wouldn't hurt to call/twitter them for a free upgrade. If you get the response you don't like, hang up, try again.

What is the difference between Chip-and-Signature and Chip-and-PIN?
You insert the chipped card into the slot. The physical contact terminal will read the EMV chip and the terminal will automatically read the preferred cardholder verification methods (called CVM) for that card.

Chip-and-Signature means that the terminal will printout a receipt for you to sign. This is the most prevalent authentication for most US issued EMV cards. Chip-and-Signature helps in a way that it will get through to face-to-face merchant transactions where you and the merchant do not speak the same language.

Chip-and-PIN means that the terminal will prompt you to input a PIN for authentication. Some credit union issued credit cards will have this CVM as secondary if Chip-and-Signature cannot be done. Chip-and-PIN is the more prevalent method of authentication used outside the US, especially in transaction environments where no human interaction is needed (i.e. automated gas pumps, toll roads, train kiosks, etc.).

The Google Docs spreadsheet will list which CVM are used in the EMV cards listed. Some cards can only do Chip-and-Signature. Other cards can do both Chip-and-Signature and Chip-and-PIN. And others might have a third option called No CVM (no authentication needed) which is reserved for low value transactions.

One chip can hold a lot more data, therefore it is capable of doing multiple verification methods. That's one of the great things about EMV over the mag-stripe which can hold very little data.

I want to know for sure what my EMV chip does. Is there anyway I can test out my own EMV card to see what the CVM list is?
alexmt has written up a nice step-by-step procedure on Post #3615.

If most of the EMV cards in the US is the Chip-and-Signature type, doesn't that mean it's still useless abroad?
Depends if you see it as glass half empty or glass half full. See Post #3 for further details on how Chip-and-Signature has worked both successfully and unsuccessfully depending on the merchant transaction environment and use your best judgment whether which one is right for you.

Are there any places in the US that are accepting transactions via the EMV chip?
tmiw has created a dedicated Google maps webpage to show where EMV has been proven to work here: http://emvacceptedhere.com/ Per his Post #4240, feel free to add any places with active EMV terminals if you come across one.

As of 2014/05, the EMV terminals in most Walmarts and Sam's Clubs are being turned on. Hence, the best place to try them out would be your local Walmart or Sam's Club. For other merchants, it's slowly being phased in.

I hope people will post them in the Post your receipt of your 1st EMV based transaction in the US thread. cvarming has shown us an EMV transaction receipt from Brooklyn, NY in Post #2380. I myself had my first EMV based (Chip-and-Signature) transaction in two stores in the Los Angeles area, as shown in detail in Post #2705 (courtesy of WhatWhatTech for pointing these two stores out)

I don't want a chip in my card. I heard horror stories all over the media saying hackers can steal my credit card info from a mile away.
There are two types of chips. One is contactless and the other is contact. Cards can be either one or the other, or both.

In the Google Docs spreadsheet, the cards that are capable of contactless payments are listed seperately under the "RFID or NFC contactless chip" column. If it says yes, then that means it has the ability to do contactless payments. If it says no, it doesn't have that feature.

The one that the media has overhyped about hackers "stealing your information wirelessly" was the contactless type like this:

You are worried about this happening, right?

You don't have to worry. EMV is a chip standard that can have both contact and contactless interfaces. With the traditional contact interface, this means you actually have to physically insert the chip into a POS terminal for it to be authorized, like this:

With the contact interface, nothing is wireless. No data is sent out in a stand-alone contact type EMV chip. With the EMV contactless interface, data is sent wirelessly.

Furthermore, contactless chip cards are required to show a symbol (looks like Wi-Fi symbol) somewhere on the card that to denote it's capability as a contactless card. For example, here's an example of a Discover Card with contactless capability (in which Discover calls "Discover ZIP") showing the contactless symbol on the back of the card:

Don't believe everything that the media says. Besides, millions of people all over the world from London to Singapore, uses contactless payments daily in extremely crowded subways and mass transit with nary any problems. There are multiple layers of encrypted securities and keys that are needed to break the code.

Frankly, giving your physical card to a waiter/waitress who takes the card out of your view is much more susceptible to fraud than contactless payments.

Why should I care?
If you are an international traveler, you will want this because majority of the world has or in the process of converting to this payment format.


In fact, in 2012, even North Korea moved to the EMV format, leaving the US as one of the countries in the world that hasn't done so.

In addition, VISA, MC, AMEX, and Discover have all agreed to incentivize the USA shifting to EMV payments by 2015 by shifting liability for fraudulent transactions to merchants if they do not have EMV equipment and the cardholder has an EMV card. So if you travel internationally or would like to get one before the others, you might be interested in getting one.


BS! I had no problems using my card in [insert whereever country], [insert whatever point in time]
If you stick to the tourist path where they have lots of visitors from the US, you should have no problems using your mag-stripe only card in hotels and restaurants, at least for now. But as things can change as things go forward.

However, consider that once you start taking the off-beaten path, go to non-touristy places where they are not familiar with mag-stripes, rent a car and use toll roads, fill up gas, or try to buy train tickets you might end up into a trouble of the machine not recognizing your card because it lacks the chip. Furthermore, a lot of toll roads, gas pumps, and automated ticket machines lack any human assistance to help you when you need it the most.

But [insert credit card company] told me all merchants that display their logo must accept them! All I have to do is report them for violating their agreements, right?
There are several factors against this.

1. You can only speak English. The merchant representative, most likely a part-time clerk earning minimum wage, speaks in a different language, let's say French. If you have no French language skills, how are you going to get your point across? Are you going to whip out your cell phone at exorbitant int'l roaming charges and hope the customer service is going to translate it for you on the spot? Or maybe you might actually know French. But how about Swahili, Farsi, Balinese, or the multiple languages in mainland China?

2. Just like US, the rest of the world's businesses uses part-time minimum wage workers as cashiers to cut down on labor costs. Most of their SOP training manuals are written by MBA types to not to do anything they are not familiar with. Do not expect them to understand the intricate details of credit card mumbo jumbo. You don't expect Taco Bell employees to understand the minute details of Discover-JCB-Union Pay agreements, right? Same thing the other way around: be respectful as a guest in their country, prepare in advance in their ways, avoid being an "ugly American" stereotype.

3. You are a guest in their country. You are a minority. If 99.9% of their country's people and other tourists from around the world uses EMV, do you really think they are going to accomodate the 0.1% of American tourists who only have mag-stripes credit cards?

4. Again, you are a guest in their country. How would you, as an American standing in line, react if a Chinese tourist was clogging up the lines at a local Taco Bell because the clerk doesn't understand the Discover-Union Pay agreement and has trouble communicating between Mandarin spoken by the tourist and English spoken by the Taco Bell clerk? Same way the other way around. You do not want to clog up the lines for everyone. The less hassle, the better.

5. VISA and MC make tons of money from merchants in that country. Say SNCF French Rail. It's a billion dollar company in France. Do you think VISA is going to pull the plug of their relationship with SNCF because SNCF refuses to do mag-stripe processing at their unmanned train station kiosk? Of course not. Be realistic.

6. And lastly, if you're up against an unstaffed toll kiosk, gas pump or train ticket machine, are you going to yell curses at the machine?

But I want my credit card to be able to be used in the US too!
No worries. They have not gotten rid of the mag-stripe on the back of the card for backward compatibility reasons, just like we still have embossed numbers on our cards for backwards compatibility to using those old carbon copy imprinters.

[insert own Hyatt card image front and back together with red arrows pointing to all the backward compatibility features]

You use the chip on the front of the card abroad (for now), and the mag-stripe just like any other card for the US. Basically, you're increasing your credit card's acceptance rate by getting a card that both via the chip and the mag-stripe. You're getting a better deal for free.

And when 2015 comes along and US switches to EMV, you'll be way ahead of everyone else too!


So why did the rest of the world and the US moved/moving toward EMV?
Primarily, due to fraud concerns. You see, the mag-stripe has been with us since the 1950s. It may have been the most high tech thing back in the day, but with the technology that is available today, any shmo can pick up a $100 USB magnetic card skimming device off of eBay and get your credit card info.

And unlike skimming off contactless cards which actually need the person to have l33t programming skills, skimming off a magnetic stripe has become so ubiquitous that nary a day goes about skimming fraud going on somewhere in America, from gas pumps, Michael's stores (2011), Target breaches (2013), restaurant waiters/waitresses, to even McDonald's drive thrus.

https://www.google.com/search?q=skimming+fraud

These type of fraud used to be prevalent in Europe. But once they started switching over to EMV starting over 2 decades ago, this type of fraud went elsewhere. It went over to Asia, Canada and Mexico, Latin America, etc. etc. until they too began implementing EMV to combat skimming fraud. The US is practically the only country left that hasn't done so, therefore all the fraud that used to take place elsewhere is now happening here.


But EMV is old and it's not fool proof. Shouldn't we just skip over it and do something new instead?
Yes, EMV is old. It was developed in the 1990s and its smart card payment predecessor was first introduced in France. But as of today, it has become the defacto global standard of payments.

But then, what else is there? There is no other de facto global standard of payments alternative. For example, if we decide to skip over it and do something new, hypothetically like DNA matching technology, it still means US int'l travelers will continue to have problems abroad with useless plastic acceptance because no other country is using this DNA matching technology except the US.

Besides, nothing is fool proof. You can say that the bank vault isn't fool proof because you can crack it open if enough C4 is used. But your average low-life scumbag isn't likely to get military grade C4 easily either. But the bank vault does make it harder to get the bank's money over say a petty cash box. That's the point here. EMV is akin to a security tight bank vault, the old mag-stripe is akin to a petty cash box lying around inside the drawer.


I'm a business owner and I don't think EMV is going to take off. I'm not going to spend extra hundreds of dollars to upgrade my credit card machine. Convince me other wise why I should.
I can understand the added extra cost to your business once this switchover takes place. But before even saying that, look at your existing POS terminal. Does it have a slot somewhere to insert a card?

Most likely, if you had replaced your POS terminal within the past five years, you already have an EMV capable terminal. EMV is basically just not turned on yet from the processor and acquirer side.

If you have an EMV capable terminal, then a best bet would be to contact your acquirer to have the EMV feature turned on. You did your end of the deal already by having an EMV capable terminal, it is now the acquirers' responsibility to turn it on in accordance to the EMV switchover mandate.

And if you don't, you are going to replace your POS terminal anyway from common wear and tear. It isn't a hard switch-over. You can continue to use your POS terminal until it dies out because EMV cardholders will still have the mag-stripe on the back. And by the time your non-EMV capable POS terminal is up for replacement the market will be full with these newer POS terminals that can accept the mag-stripe, EMV, as well as contactless payments.

In addition, you may also want to check with your acquirer or processor about EMV capable terminals. Some of them are willing to replace your terminal for free in preparation for the US EMV switchover. Call and ask for details.


But what's in it for me? I'm the one that has to pay for the upgrade.
All the major card networks have given incentives for merchants for the upcoming EMV switchover.

If 75% or more of your credit card transactions are done on an EMV contact and contactless terminal, they are going to waive your annual PCI-DSS fees, which usually costs you around $5.00-$19.95/month per terminal. The overall long term cost savings of those compliance fees will be larger than the cost of an one time upgrade for the terminal.

The downside is that once EMV switchover happens and if you do not have a POS terminal that is able to accept EMV, the fraud liability shifts over to the merchant.

I own several fast food franchises. If I upgrade my POS terminals at all of my restaurants, it's going to cost me thousands, if not millions. I don't think anyone is going to use a fake credit card to buy $5 burgers. And if they do, wouldn't it be cheaper for me to eat the fraud cost?
Remember also that fraud isn't just committed by dishonest customers using fraudulent cards. Fraud can also happen with dishonest employees skimming off credit card data from the mag-stripe as in the case of a teenage McDonald's drive thru employee skimming off $13,000 of customers' credit cards in Olympia, WA. Consider the public relations fall out that your business may have if this happens (i.e. the big Target breach of 2013, where someone used a mag stripe card to load malware INTO Target's system). Is it worth risking to take such a huge PR disaster?
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Old Nov 26, 14, 1:57 pm   #8281
  
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Wait, I thought Andrews was the one not doing it right by sending the PIN reminder only to one's home address?
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Old Nov 26, 14, 2:37 pm   #8282
  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tmiw View Post
Wait, I thought Andrews was the one not doing it right by sending the PIN reminder only to one's home address?
Actually, I initially reported that yesterday, but quickly (last night) remembered that it was actually Sun Trust, NOT Andrews, that only mailed pin reminders. I quickly updated the post with an apology to Andrews, but you quoted my original post, so it's still incorrect in that quoted version. I hope you will correct it in your post if possible.

Again, my apologies for mixing up these two banks (I think this is the first mix-up I've made in all the confusing details I'm trying to keep straight).

Sun Trust is very neat because their Delta VISA debit card generates 1 mile per dollar for folks who got that card before it was no longer being offered in June. A huge benefit when paying taxes (with max $3 fee for up to $30,000 payment - which helped me get 2 business class airmile trips to Europe for 100k miles each!).

Last edited by uds0; Nov 26, 14 at 2:43 pm
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Old Nov 26, 14, 2:49 pm   #8283
  
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Originally Posted by alexmt View Post
If it set without error on the website, and you've made a few chip transactions, you should be fine. Remember the PIN on the chip is a worst case scenario. Even most PIN-only kiosks will use the online PIN since it is the priority. There's no guarantees, but you're putting far more effort into this than the hassle will be if it doesn't work. The card is far more likely to get declined as suspected stolen or to just randomly not work than it is for your PIN to not be processed correctly.
Enough of the pin on the chip fixation please!

Pretend the chip isn't even there.

Again, all I need to verify is that the pin is correct by testing via an ATM WITHOUT actually performing any action on the ATM that might generate a fee. Thus, I just need a message that is different when the pin is correct that when it is incorrect WITHOUT the possibility of performing a fee generating transaction.
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Old Nov 26, 14, 4:25 pm   #8284
  
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Go to an ATM. Insert card. First thing it asks for is your pin. Enter pin. If pin is incorrect, ATM will say pin is incorrect and ask if you want to cancel the transaction. If pin is correct, it will go to the next screen and ask what you wish to do. Request a cash advance. It will ask for amount. Enter any amount you want. At this point, by law, the ATM must inform you that its bank will be charging a fee of whatever it is. At this point, you do not accept the fee and cancel the transaction. You will not be charged any fee and will have figured out if your pin has been changed.
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Old Nov 26, 14, 6:21 pm   #8285
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JEFFJAGUAR View Post
Go to an ATM. Insert card. First thing it asks for is your pin. Enter pin. If pin is incorrect, ATM will say pin is incorrect and ask if you want to cancel the transaction. If pin is correct, it will go to the next screen and ask what you wish to do. Request a cash advance. It will ask for amount. Enter any amount you want. At this point, by law, the ATM must inform you that its bank will be charging a fee of whatever it is. At this point, you do not accept the fee and cancel the transaction. You will not be charged any fee and will have figured out if your pin has been changed.
Wouldn't the following be simpler (and a little less risky)?
Go to an ATM. Insert card. First thing it asks for is your PIN. Enter a clearly incorrect PIN. Verify that the ATM says the PIN is incorrect. If so, try again with what you think is the correct PIN. If the PIN is correct, it will go the next screen and ask what you wish to do. Cancel at this point. Done.
(Ie, no need to go two-thirds through requesting a cash advance, is there? All you need to do is to know what it would say if the PIN were incorrect, and then get anywhere past that point with the PIN you expect to be correct.)
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Old Nov 26, 14, 7:02 pm   #8286
  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JEFFJAGUAR View Post
Go to an ATM. Insert card. First thing it asks for is your pin. Enter pin. If pin is incorrect, ATM will say pin is incorrect and ask if you want to cancel the transaction. If pin is correct, it will go to the next screen and ask what you wish to do. Request a cash advance. It will ask for amount. Enter any amount you want. At this point, by law, the ATM must inform you that its bank will be charging a fee of whatever it is. At this point, you do not accept the fee and cancel the transaction. You will not be charged any fee and will have figured out if your pin has been changed.
That's how it USED to work. To make it harder to try pins randomly, at both BofA and Onpoint Credit Union, it now doesn't indicate in any way that the pin is incorrect, even when it is (on purpose), it simply continues until the final step just before actual doing a cash advance or balance inquiry or transfer request and then reports that the transaction cannot be completed (can't tell if pin is actually ok and some other issue exists or pin is not ok), or with a valid pin and transaction type, it completes the "test" transaction and potentially generates one or more fees, so that's too late.

I'll go back tomorrow and try again to see if I can spot ANY, even very subtle, indication of incorrect pin entered by the response from the ATM. I just don't want to lock the card access because I'm accessing multiple ATMs with good and bad pins while testing. I got a fraud alert on my Chase Sapphire that actually had to do with someone trying to make a call to Mexico with my card number, and the Chase person commented that there also appeared to be excessive ATM accesses locally (which there were) so I explained that I was testing the card.

Yes, legally the ATM fee must be disclosed so that one can decline, but it is true only for the ATM fee at the ATM being used. US Bank ALSO charges a fee of $2.50 for a balance inquiry made at a non-US Bank ATM that doesn't (or does) charge an ATM fee. I got dinged that $2.50 at a First Tech CU ATM because it doesn't charge an ATM fee even for US Bank card and gave no warning about the fee US Bank charged for that test balance inquiry. Very subtle and worth understanding.

This is one reason that Schwab and State Farm and other banks that reimburse ATM fees are very clear that they only reimburse the ATM operator cash withdrawal fee, not any fee charged by the issuing bank or otherwise. I have never had the issuing bank charge a fee for a cash withdrawal at an ATM. Since I only use fee free issuer bank or approved partner ATMs, my experience is that no fee is charged by either the ATM or the issuer.
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Old Nov 26, 14, 7:31 pm   #8287
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What are all these talks on TESTING PIN are about?

1) if you set your PIN with something you can easily remember, instead of some exotic combo you dream up (in the name of security), why would you forget about your PIN? You can easily use a familiar date with some modification, like adding or subtracting a number. There is no need to set up an exotic PIN that you NEED to remember.

We use the SAME PIN for all our ATM cards and have never had one issue in 20 years of travel when ATMs were not as popular as now. Even when we were pickpocketed on 2 separate trips, the thieves were only interested in the cash, none of our debit cards / credit cards had any fraudulent charge attempts, between the long hours from the loss to the time being reported. On the first time we took the trouble to call (and Chase was the WORST in response). On the second time we did not bother to call, just used SMs to inform the banks, based on the experiences from the first time.

2) Bring more than one ATM card with you when you travel. You never know whether your card would work even it is tested flawlessly at home, or whether it would be eaten by the ATM when you were making a transaction. Or you could lose it or it is stolen... Needless to say, carry them separately. Also if it is a JT account, bring both cards they have different number - even one is lost, the other one can still be used.

3) If anyone knows of a US based bank that would send a PIN to you other than the address in records, then this is a worthy info to post.

4) The act of testing ATMs all around town gives all the look of the card is being stolen and the crooks are testing random PINs. Your card might be locked before you are satisfied that your PIN is set correctly.

5) Isn't it all banks ATMs are required to display a message of a fee would be charged if you want to take cash out, and ask you if you want to proceed? At that point you can simply decline the transaction.

6) Know your own banks Fee Schedule if you are so concerned about being dinged, DONT assume, read the Fee Schedule of your account, that should be mailed to you periodically if there are changes, and can be found on bank's website. Otherwise, dont complain if you are being dinged. Fees are DISCLOSED, not a secret hidden from you.

7) Finally, how much money are we talking about here, that it needs so much effort (trouble) to run around town testing the PIN?

Last edited by Happy; Nov 26, 14 at 7:37 pm
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Old Nov 26, 14, 7:33 pm   #8288
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Looks like they have not been back to enforce the EMV transactions. I now swipe all my chip cards instead of inserting them.
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Old Nov 26, 14, 7:35 pm   #8289
  
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So I got my new CSP card in the mail today thanks to the Home Depot breach. It looks like the card's EMV chip changed a fair bit compared to the old one:

  • There actually is a PSE on the card now. This probably doesn't matter much in practice since it's an optional part of the EMV spec, but it may make transactions a bit faster.
  • There's no custom application label on it anymore (the old one would show "Chase VisaCredit" at Walmart, this one will probably just show "Visa Credit").
  • The CVM list is significantly different now; it looks a lot more like the debit card CVM lists except with no ability to use PIN for purchases:
    1. Fail cardholder verification if this CVM is unsuccessful: Enciphered PIN verified online - If unattended cash
    2. Apply succeeding CV rule if this rule is unsuccessful: Enciphered PIN verified online - If manual cash
    3. Fail cardholder verification if this CVM is unsuccessful: Signature (paper) - If manual cash
    4. Fail cardholder verification if this CVM is unsuccessful: Fail CVM processing - If purchase with cashback
    5. Apply succeeding CV rule if this rule is unsuccessful: Signature (paper) - Always
    6. Fail cardholder verification if this CVM is unsuccessful: No CVM Required - Always

On that note, I wonder if someone was actually able to get cash back without getting screwed by the cash advance interest and fees and that's why they have to explicitly fail CVM processing now.

Last edited by tmiw; Nov 26, 14 at 7:42 pm
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Old Nov 26, 14, 7:40 pm   #8290
  
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Speaking of cash back, apparently Discover lets you get cash back when making purchases without having to pay additional interest or cash advance fees. I'm betting there will be a "purchase with cashback" entry in their CVM list to enable this if they issue chip and signature cards in the US like almost everyone else. (Otherwise the normal "if supported by the terminal" conditions will probably be enough.)
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Old Nov 26, 14, 8:03 pm   #8291
  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Happy View Post
What are all these talks on TESTING PIN are about? ...
Like testing your car starts once in a while, checking the tires, your phone, your computer, your email service, anything that may have set idle and changed without your knowledge. Testing your pin is definitely worth doing BEFORE you really need it to work, so that the time and resources to resolve any discovered issues are available to avoid the stress and panic of being caught in the cold.

Of course everyone should carry a backup debit card (and credit card!) - and those need to be tested too.

Example: I've discovered several times over the years that one or another of my banks has silently put a hold on my card - only to discover by accident when I tried to use it! Not the kind of thing that might be easy to sort out while traveling.
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Old Nov 26, 14, 11:23 pm   #8292
  
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I went back to that frozen yogurt place that rejected my DC card tonight and used my new CSP there. I talked to the clerk for a bit afterward and it looks like they changed some stuff around now to make their terminal easier to hand to people for PIN entry.

However, I don't remember if he actually inserted my card or not; I remember him swiping it and me telling him that he'll probably have to insert it but I don't remember actually seeing him insert the card. The transaction was also a lot faster to authorize than I remember and the terminal didn't require a signature from me, so I really hope their acquirer didn't disable service code enforcement with the firmware to make VEPS/QPS work correctly. Should have asked for a receipt when he offered one to confirm.

Also, I'm not 100% sure but I think this latest CSP authorizes significantly faster at Walmart now when inserted.
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Old Nov 27, 14, 10:02 am   #8293
  
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Originally Posted by tmiw View Post
I went back to that frozen yogurt place that rejected my DC card tonight and used my new CSP there. I talked to the clerk for a bit afterward and it looks like they changed some stuff around now to make their terminal easier to hand to people for PIN entry.

However, I don't remember if he actually inserted my card or not; I remember him swiping it and me telling him that he'll probably have to insert it but I don't remember actually seeing him insert the card. The transaction was also a lot faster to authorize than I remember and the terminal didn't require a signature from me, so I really hope their acquirer didn't disable service code enforcement with the firmware to make VEPS/QPS work correctly. Should have asked for a receipt when he offered one to confirm.

Also, I'm not 100% sure but I think this latest CSP authorizes significantly faster at Walmart now when inserted.
Bizarre that he wouldn't just start by inserting it if he knows his system is chip enabled. Some people. And Walmarts system has got way faster lately.
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Old Nov 27, 14, 4:59 pm   #8294
  
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So uh, they're trying to push the EMV deadline back from October: http://www.runwaygirlnetwork.com/201...ting-pressure/

Quote:
The move is very timely. New EMV (Europay, Mastercard and Visa) chip technology standards will start to be enforced on 1 October 2015 in the United States. At that time, the liability for fraudulent charges on non-EMV point-of-sale terminals will shift from the card issuer to the merchant. Supporting contactless EMV payments on IFE platforms could ultimately eradicate any potential liability faced by airlines. And Panasonic assures that its NFC technology for IFE will be EMV-compliant.

However, it’s fair to say that the broader industry has been somewhat slow to respond to the looming liability shift. Indeed, during the recent APEX Technology Conference in Newport Beach, California, a panel of experts revealed that the APEX association is working with other industry groups to request an extension to the deadline.

“The biggest thing here is that once [October 2015] passes, the liability for fraudulent transactions shifts away from the issuer of the card to the merchant who accepts the card in the event that it could have been prevented if more secure payment technology had been used,” explained industry consultant Michael Planey. “And this effects us because, by some estimates, we have a few hundred thousand embedded card readers in seats flying globally right now.”
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Old Nov 27, 14, 6:06 pm   #8295
  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tmiw View Post
So uh, they're trying to push the EMV deadline back from October: http://www.runwaygirlnetwork.com/201...ting-pressure/
I think the card networks have made it clear that they have no intention of extending it. They have no real reason too and the banks themselves will benefit as they can pass on some fraud liability for a short time.
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