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Debit cards without forex fee and other-bank ATM fees?

Old Dec 29, 2013, 6:37 am
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Debit cards without forex fee and other-bank ATM fees?

Old Mar 11, 2015, 4:26 am
  #331  
 
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Originally Posted by seawolf
There is no need to do that. MasterCard charged 1.087175. The rate that date was 1.08428. Ľ of a percent higher than market.

Visa was 1.7% higher than market. The point I'm trying to make here is it appears Visa is charging a fee more than 6.5 times more than what MasterCard is charging.

I added links to both Visa and MasterCard exchange rate lookup to the wiki and performed a spot check on about a dozen 2015 dates between USD and EUR. Visa is consistently higher than MasterCard. You pay about $0.01 to $0.02 USD more for each EUR you buy with a "no-transaction fee" Visa vs. a no-transaction fee MasterCard.

If you have a cards from both issuers, MasterCard is the way to go.
March 7 was a weekend day and Euro had a sharp decrease in value in March 6 (from 1.103 to 1.084). Since March 7 was a weekend day, effective currency exchange rates is usually picked from a time at previous business day and is kept about constant during the weekend. It seems that Visa has selected the most unfavorable rate and Mastercard has selected a favorable mid rate (or perhaps a rate based on the exact time of transaction). Such drastic changes in currency exchange rate are rare to happen for stable currencies, thus the difference between Visa and Mastercard rarely matters. But if somebody is making a transaction in countries with volatile exchange rates, the difference between Visa and Mastercard may be worth considering.
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Old Mar 11, 2015, 5:57 am
  #332  
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Originally Posted by mikemcft
Hi,

I have a Bank of America ATM card. For many years it served me well during foreign travels. There was only a 1% foreign transaction fee and many times BofA had partner banks in foreign countries that would not charge ATM fees, so I got out with a 1% total hit if I went to the right ATMs. But a year or so back BofA upped the foreign transaction fee to 3%.

Where can I get the lowest foreign transaction fees for my cash withdrawals? I am going to Japan, where cash is used heavily, so I'd like to not waste 3% up front. I'd like a better ATM card, but I'm open if there are different options. I've always thought that changing money at a bank or foreign exchange business is quite expensive, so I've avoided such options.

Thanks,
Mike
As you were told, for ATMs overseas, Schwab can't be beat. But for purchases you would be much better off with a BoA Signature Travel Rewards Visa. Not only is there no forex charge but you get points equal to 1.6% in value on all purchases, both overseas and in the States.
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Old Mar 11, 2015, 10:34 am
  #333  
 
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Originally Posted by mizzou1
March 7 was a weekend day and Euro had a sharp decrease in value in March 6 (from 1.103 to 1.084). Since March 7 was a weekend day, effective currency exchange rates is usually picked from a time at previous business day and is kept about constant during the weekend. It seems that Visa has selected the most unfavorable rate and Mastercard has selected a favorable mid rate (or perhaps a rate based on the exact time of transaction). Such drastic changes in currency exchange rate are rare to happen for stable currencies, thus the difference between Visa and Mastercard rarely matters. But if somebody is making a transaction in countries with volatile exchange rates, the difference between Visa and Mastercard may be worth considering.
As I recall, there are some posts that indicate that ATM withdrawals (and perhaps even purchases?) made on non-bank business days tend to have less favorable exchange rates and that at least VISA indeed does appear to select the most expensive exchange rate during that period. If they do select the least favorable rate during a period, clearly having a period be up to a 4 day weekend (with holidays) vs 1 day bank day has a very high probability of them finding a less favorable rate.

A brief review of a few days both during the middle and end (non-business) days of the week in question would be most helpful and a much better test of VISA vs MC markups.

http://theinquiringinvestor.com/2013...exchange-rate/

has an informal survey that reflects both 2013 and updated for 2015, but unfortunately does not address the business day vs non-business day transaction variable. 2015 stats do indicate that MC is currently better (Barclay Arrival (no AF) or Arrival+ ($89 AF) are MCs with offline pin and no FTF). The speculation that VISA uses the least favorable rate for the rate period occurs in the comments there too. It has an expansive list of the various rating resources.

Last edited by uds0; Mar 11, 2015 at 12:54 pm Reason: added reference rate study from 2013 and Jan 2015
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Old Mar 11, 2015, 12:25 pm
  #334  
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Originally Posted by uds0
If they do select the least favorable rate during a period, clearly having a period be up to a 4 day weekend (with holidays) vs 1 day bank day has a very high probability of them finding a less favorable rate.
Every time that I use my BoA Visa overseas I check my account at the end of the day and can see immediately how much (in dollars) I have been debited. That is true on bank working days and on weekends and holidays.
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Old Mar 11, 2015, 7:48 pm
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Originally Posted by Dovster
Every time that I use my BoA Visa overseas I check my account at the end of the day and can see immediately how much (in dollars) I have been debited. That is true on bank working days and on weekends and holidays.
You also might check the next business day whether that amount has been updated.

I too see an immediate posting on one of my credit cards for transactions, and for at least that card those get slightly adjusted within a business day to, I guess, reflect the final exchange rate actually used, so the original posting is clearly an "estimate".

If you are using a BofA Visa debit card, be aware of the November 2013 change from 0 to 3% FTF and the non-global alliance $5 ATM fee.

Last edited by uds0; Mar 11, 2015 at 8:31 pm
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Old Mar 13, 2015, 5:42 pm
  #336  
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Originally Posted by mizzou1
March 7 was a weekend day and Euro had a sharp decrease in value in March 6 (from 1.103 to 1.084). Since March 7 was a weekend day, effective currency exchange rates is usually picked from a time at previous business day and is kept about constant during the weekend. It seems that Visa has selected the most unfavorable rate and Mastercard has selected a favorable mid rate (or perhaps a rate based on the exact time of transaction). Such drastic changes in currency exchange rate are rare to happen for stable currencies, thus the difference between Visa and Mastercard rarely matters. But if somebody is making a transaction in countries with volatile exchange rates, the difference between Visa and Mastercard may be worth considering.
I just checked my credit card charges leading up to the weekend (Wednesday/Thursday/Friday). Had charges made to both "no fx transaction fee" AA Executive MC and BoA VISA. VISA has been consistently imposing a rate that is $0.01-$0.02 USD more per EUR than MC. Since I have internet access overseas, I'll be checking both MC and VISA rates (added links the wiki) for the day before deciding which card to use in the future.
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Old Mar 14, 2015, 2:29 am
  #337  
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Originally Posted by uds0
If you are using a BofA Visa debit card, be aware of the November 2013 change from 0 to 3% FTF and the non-global alliance $5 ATM fee.
For ATMs, I use only my Schwab card unless I am in the States and near a BoA ATM.
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Old Mar 25, 2015, 1:43 am
  #338  
 
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Originally Posted by Dovster
For ATMs, I use only my Schwab card unless I am in the States and near a BoA ATM.
Looks like the majority of you guys use Schwab.
I use PenFed - same thing - no fees at all.

I managed to get a rate of 4.00 Shekels to USD a few days ago when I cashed it out from the ATM, and now the market rate dropped to 3.92 Shekels so I got a great bargain... life is good without fees!

Next week in Malta, going to enjoy the low value of the Euro!
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Old Apr 28, 2015, 9:54 pm
  #339  
 
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I need to go on a little rant!

The Schwab ATM fee reimbursement is a gimmick like the best rate guarantee by travel companies.

Almost 3 weeks ago I withdrew cash at an ATM at a bank next door to my apartment because I needed cash and didn't feel like driving a few miles to a BoA atm where I can use my BoA atm card for no fees obviously.

I just opened my Schwab account a few months ago so I figured this would be the perfect chance to try out taking cash out of any bank atm with a schwab debit card.

I read the terms and Schwab says they reimburse withdrawal fees only, thats fine with me, so I stick my Schwab card into the atm, read the prompts, agree that I will be charged a 2 dollar atm withdrawal fee and that it will be combined into one transaction. So I withdraw 40 dollars, charged a 2 dollar atm fee, and the charge shows up on my statement as a single 42 dollar withdrawal.

I save the receipt and wait a week and no reimbursement. So I figure I would take a picture of the recept and send a secure message to Schwab requesting a manual reimbursement of the 2 dollars. After all I heard somewhere that Schwab is really good with just manually reimbursing fees if they don't post automatically.

So I sent the secure message out about a week and a half ago and the only response I got was the automated response I got a day later saying they recieved my message.

How long does it take? I am starting to think they are blowing me off, or that there is some legalese buried in the fine print somewhere that in order to be reimbursed the atm fee must show up as a seperate transaction.

Last time I make this mistake. From now on every US dollar atm withdrawal will be at BoA atms and will go on my bank of america atm card. I will only use the Schwab card for foreign atm withdrawals since BoA is pretty much guaranteed to charge me a fee, while with Schwab there is at least the off-chance the planets will align and I make it through all the hoops to get the fee reimbursed.

Normally I wouldn't be too fussy, but at the same time I had a best rate guarantee shot down by Orbitz so it was a double whammy. My claim was shot down because I was on a prepaid booking, which doesn't upset me as I wasn't holding my breath on this anyway, just submitted the claim because I saw a lower prepaid rate at another OTA and figured what the heck. If they didnt shoot it down because it was prepaid they would have shot it down for another reason so I figure I didn't lose anything by at least trying.

Disappointed in Schwab though. Should I at least call them or wait a bit longer? A week and a half for a secure message seems awfully long, can't help but feel like they are blowing me off. I have never waited this long for a response from a real person from any bank secure message ever.
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Old Apr 28, 2015, 9:59 pm
  #340  
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Originally Posted by Dadaluma83
I need to go on a little rant!

The Schwab ATM fee reimbursement is a gimmick like the best rate guarantee by travel companies.

Almost 3 weeks ago I withdrew cash at an ATM at a bank next door to my apartment because I needed cash and didn't feel like driving a few miles to a BoA atm where I can use my BoA atm card for no fees obviously.

I just opened my Schwab account a few months ago so I figured this would be the perfect chance to try out taking cash out of any bank atm with a schwab debit card.

I read the terms and Schwab says they reimburse withdrawal fees only, thats fine with me, so I stick my Schwab card into the atm, read the prompts, agree that I will be charged a 2 dollar atm withdrawal fee and that it will be combined into one transaction. So I withdraw 40 dollars, charged a 2 dollar atm fee, and the charge shows up on my statement as a single 42 dollar withdrawal.

I save the receipt and wait a week and no reimbursement. So I figure I would take a picture of the recept and send a secure message to Schwab requesting a manual reimbursement of the 2 dollars. After all I heard somewhere that Schwab is really good with just manually reimbursing fees if they don't post automatically.

So I sent the secure message out about a week and a half ago and the only response I got was the automated response I got a day later saying they recieved my message.

How long does it take? I am starting to think they are blowing me off, or that there is some legalese buried in the fine print somewhere that in order to be reimbursed the atm fee must show up as a seperate transaction.

Last time I make this mistake. From now on every US dollar atm withdrawal will be at BoA atms and will go on my bank of america atm card. I will only use the Schwab card for foreign atm withdrawals since BoA is pretty much guaranteed to charge me a fee, while with Schwab there is at least the off-chance the planets will align and I make it through all the hoops to get the fee reimbursed.

Normally I wouldn't be too fussy, but at the same time I had a best rate guarantee shot down by Orbitz so it was a double whammy. My claim was shot down because I was on a prepaid booking, which doesn't upset me as I wasn't holding my breath on this anyway, just submitted the claim because I saw a lower prepaid rate at another OTA and figured what the heck. If they didnt shoot it down because it was prepaid they would have shot it down for another reason so I figure I didn't lose anything by at least trying.

Disappointed in Schwab though. Should I at least call them or wait a bit longer? A week and a half for a secure message seems awfully long, can't help but feel like they are blowing me off. I have never waited this long for a response from a real person from any bank secure message ever.
They only reimburse once a month on the last business day. For April that would be this Thursday. I'd wait until then or the day after to see if the reimbursement shows up in your account. In my experience I've had no problems getting reimbursements (even when traveling outside the US). The lack of a response via SM is a bit weird though; maybe try calling if the reimbursement doesn't happen this week?
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Old Apr 28, 2015, 11:51 pm
  #341  
 
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Originally Posted by Dadaluma83
Disappointed in Schwab though. Should I at least call them or wait a bit longer? A week and a half for a secure message seems awfully long, can't help but feel like they are blowing me off. I have never waited this long for a response from a real person from any bank secure message ever.
I keep on reading posts about how Schwab is superior to Fidelity. Well, Fidelity reimburses me almost immediately for ATM fees...YMMV...
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Old Apr 29, 2015, 12:17 am
  #342  
 
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Originally Posted by 747FC
I keep on reading posts about how Schwab is superior to Fidelity. Well, Fidelity reimburses me almost immediately for ATM fees...YMMV...
One of the issues is foreign transaction fees. Fidelity charges 1% on some foreign transactions.
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Old Apr 29, 2015, 7:00 pm
  #343  
 
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I have brokerage accounts both Schwab and Fidelity. Schwab is far better. But here is the FAQ from Fidelity. Note the FTF.
What is a Fidelity® Visa® Gold Check Card?
Are there any fees with the Fidelity® Visa® Gold Check Card?
There is no annual fee on the Fidelity® Visa® Gold Check Card. Other institutions may assess ATM fees for use of ATMs in their network. Fidelity® Cash Management Account customers or Fidelity accounts coded Premium, Private Client Group, or held by customers with householded annual trading activity of 120 or more stock, bond, or options trades, will be reimbursed for ATM fees charged by other institutions.
Please review your Fidelity Check Card Agreement (PDF) for specific information on reimbursement caps or limits. For each foreign transaction, there is a foreign transaction fee (currently, 1 percent of the transaction for non-U.S. dollar transactions), which will be included in the amount charged to your account. This charge may apply whether or not there is a currency conversion.

Originally Posted by 747FC
I keep on reading posts about how Schwab is superior to Fidelity. Well, Fidelity reimburses me almost immediately for ATM fees...YMMV...
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Old Apr 29, 2015, 8:43 pm
  #344  
 
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Did you open a Schwab brokerage account or added a Schwab checking account to the brokerage account?

I had the brokerage account for many years (since their 2% cash back credit cards days). I used their check card with that. I need a chip card so they told me that is available only on their checking account, so I opened a checking account and my brokerage card was cancelled, but I still had a money market account. Lately I am finding that the brokerage account "checking account" is far superior to the Schwab bank checking account. I needed to wire funds. I found I could do this on-line from my Schwab brokerage account but not the Schwab bank checking account. I would have preferred the other way for maintaining security of my security holdings! I plan to cancel my checking account some time in the summer and go for the magnetic swipe check card. The chip check card is not worth it.

Originally Posted by Dadaluma83

I just opened my Schwab account a few months ago so I figured this would be the perfect chance to try out taking cash out of any bank atm with a schwab debit card.
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Old Apr 29, 2015, 9:49 pm
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I opened both at the same time. Got the brokerage account and linked checking account in one go. I'll definitely call if I don't see my reimbursement on Friday though.
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