JEFFJAGUAR

I applied for the card yesterday. We'll see what happens (asked for a pretty low credit line, only about 5g as it would only be for foreign travel I suppose.

sdsearch

I don't think it's a simple as that. All else equal, a card that earn some kind of points/miles I already collect from other sources is much more valueable to me than a card which earns in its own (new to me) points currency (especially if you have to jump through hoops to redeem small rewards at good value). So just "rewards" it not enough in my book.

It's got to be:

4. useful rewards

(where of course "useful" may be in the eyes of the beholder!).

Also, I would change 2 into:

2. no "net" annual fee

I don't care if there's annual fee if either (a) they give me something clearly of higher value than the annual fee each time I pay the annual fee (say, the free night cert for the $49 annual fee with Priority Club Select Visa), or (b) waive the annual fee most years (with easy hoop-jumping).

Not that I know of a perfect card even with that redefinition, since I'm not aware of the Chase yet having 0% forex for ahy of the "no "net' annual fee" hotel cards that they offer.

kebosabi

Indeed. Everyone has a different set of standards on what they want on a card, so that's why I created the compare/contrast google docs spreadsheet (though some people seem to just don't get that's it's shared by others and keep deleting the lines! )

Some value rewards over others, some put no annual fee as higher, other value forex fees as more important. Add that to the ability to actually being able to use the card abroad, you get lots of permutations on what would be the best for each individual cardholder.

So, YMMV. Some might like the Andrews FCU Globetrek card as it comes with full Chip-and-PIN, no annual fee, 1% forex rate, and earns some kind of rewards (useful or not).

Others might value the Chip-and-Signature JP Morgan Select card as it comes with no forex fee despite that it has a $95 annual fee on it, but see that the $95 annual fee has a "net no annual fee" from the benefit it has with primary rental car coverage.

And other might say, they're fine with an upgraded chipped Citi AAdvantage card which they currently have and already pay annual fees for with 3% forex rates because it saves them the hassle of applying for a new card.

It really is on the eyes of the beholder.

MASTERNC

I just tried to use the chip-and-PIN reader at a local Wal-Mart. As I stated earlier, it turns out not all Wal-Mart stores have the chip reader enabled, and it turns out it was not at this store.

The downside of the chip and PIN card is there is nowhere to test them in most areas before heading overseas, so I may have to trust the PIN was programmed correctly.

kebosabi

You don't really have to travel overseas, depending on where you are in the US, it's possible to test it out by traveling overland to either Mexico or Canada.

In that light, I'm anxious to know whether big rig truck drivers from Seattle, Detroit, or Buffalo who frequently head up north have had any issues at gas stations in Canada these days.

mia

This has also been my experience, but it is changing. Today a swipe card is most likely to be rejected at an unattended POS machine (e.g. petrol pump, toll booth, ticket dispenser). However, (in Europe) the merchants are gradually being made responsible for fraud if a card is swiped, but not if it is verified with a PIN, and this creates a financial incentive to reject swipe cards.

We have a separate thread to debate the merits of Chip & PIN, but from a purely practical perspective it's something we need to have because it is the standard Europe had adopted.

kebosabi

Moving away from an old system to a new system, especially on a global scale, doesn’t happen overnight at a flick of a switch. It happens gradually and over time.

Right now, it the ol' mag-stripe maybe still be ok at certain locations abroad, but I wouldn’t count on it as 100% sure in the future. By means of various factors at play ranging from individual minimum wage earning part-time cashiers’ knowledge, merchant and retailer incentives provided by VISA and MC, fraud costs burdened by financial institutions, manufacturing costs of payment terminals, to government mandated regulations, the old magnetic stripe abroad is heading the way of the dinosaur akin to writing a check at the checkout stand at your local supermarket.

Over in Canada for example, American travelers who have mag-stripe only cards are now being directed to pay inside as they've started replacing pay-at-the-pump self service terminals with Chip-and-PIN terminals.

Sooner or later, there's going to be a paradigm shift where pay via chip-and-PIN (or Signature) starts outnumbering payments processed via swipe-and-(verify cardholder's)-signature, and increasingly that is happening as everything gets more automated.

Considering the factors above, I'd say now is a good time more than ever to stay ahead in the ball game. IMO, it's like saying "I don't understand the need of a cell phone being able to shoot photos or surf the web," yet fast forward ten years later, everyone has them.

If a card is able to handle both mag-stripe and Chip-and-PIN/Signature as opposed to mag-stripe only, I'd opt to choose the former as a means of future-proofing myself when the need arises; especially so if several options are on the table today and the cost to do so is minimal on my end.

If you agree with this logic, feel free to utilize the google docs spreadsheet on the http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/credi...signature.html sticky thread to see the short (but growing) EMV options available in the US today depending on what you value more. Please don't delete the rows though as it's viewed and shared with others.

dw

As an update, I DID finally receive a replacement card with an EMV chip in it today. So my two attempts at calling in did not work, but reaching out to @AskCiti on twitter did.

Two observations:
1) The chip Citi uses is actually much smaller (maybe only 2/3 the size) than the chips I've been accustomed to seeing on foreign issued cards and that I've seen on the Chase US issued cards.
2) The insert that came with the card had an image of three Thank You cards on it-- the regular one, the Preferred and the Premier, so presumably EMV is now available on all three.

unavaca

I was able to use my Citi TY card w/ chip at FRA without any issues. The agent seemed to expect the signature (some indication on the screen, maybe?), since he handed me a pen before the receipt started printing.

kebosabi

2.5 million EMV cards has been issued in the US today by Oberthur

Still a drop in the bucket compared to replacing all the cards out there in the US today, but a 2500% jump from less than 100,000 in 2010 to 2.5 million in less than 2 years is quite impressive.

Note of interest:

Citi's EMV cards are also made by Oberthur as it's noted "Oberthur C.S." on the back of the card.

JSFox

FWIW, My experiences w/ my US Bank Flexperks Chip & Sign. The only thing I was able to do above what I could do with a Swipe & Sign is buy a ticket at Amsterdam Centraal which I did using my checking acct PIN. Not sure if it would have worked with any PIN, but knowing the Dutch, likely not. This made me hopeful.

It was useless for all other kiosk type purchases in NL, BE, DE, IT, and UK including petrol stations, toll booths, train tickets, parking, etc.

It caused confusion a few times at non-kiosks when I chipped instead of swiped (EG, restaurants, grocery stores, etc.) but then couldn't get a PIN to work and they didn't know what to do for a signature (though brought a big smile to the face of a very surprised waiter in Antwerp when paper started spitting out automatically after I chipped.)

Swipe & Sign is slowly becoming more and more difficult to use outside of tourist heavy areas. Seems mostly due to lack of knowledge about how to do them (when pretty much everything they see is C&P) though I suspect some intentionally play dumb. Kiosks that accept C&P only are also increasing, particularly petrol stations. Chip & Sign seems to be mostly the same as Swipe & Sign for acceptance.

Chip & Sign, for me anyway, is a big fat nothing. US Bank need to get with the program and get Chip & PIN working for their customers who travel.

kebosabi

Just got back from Canada and the Citi AAdvantage with Chip-and-Sign worked without hitches with all retailers up there.

When you insert the chip card into the slot, the words "EMV Authorization OK" and "Please remove card" shows up on the screen. After that, it prints out a receipt for you to sign.

Didn't have a chance to try it out at gas stations or unattended kiosks this time around as all transportation needs were paid for by my friends in YVR.

dw

There are reports in the Hyatt thread that some people received an e-mail from Chase today indicating that they will be getting a replacement Chase Hyatt Visa with an EMV chip.

Good to hear that Chase is starting to roll this out to additional card products now (even though it is still Chip and Signature).

kebosabi

Seems like it'll be introduced to more Chase cards, not just the Hyatt cards.

Link to Chase's FAQ about "Smart Chip" cards:
https://www.chase.com/online/Credit-...-chip-card.htm

What are you going to do with an unattended kiosk or automated machines? Yell or curse at it?

Banks need to realize that more and more places are moving towards automated machines instead of using a human to do the transaction. They should know this first hand; they're experts at cost cutting intensive human labor to ATMs and online transactions.

OTOH, $75 annual fee with no forex fees and earns Hyatt GP points, is not a bad offer. Not the best compared to Andrews FCU, but it is the lowest annual fee card that has EMV capability with no forex fees offered by Chase so far.



As a note, Chase seems to have quietly updated their offer page to start noting "Smart Chipcard" onto all their cards that they issue with EMV Chip-and-Signature.

BA VISA Signature
https://creditcards.chase.com/credit...edit-card.aspx

Hyatt VISA Signature
https://creditcards.chase.com/credit...yatt-card.aspx

JP Morgan Select
https://creditcards.chase.com/credit...lect-card.aspx

JP Morgan Palladium
https://creditcards.chase.com/credit...dium-card.aspx

84fiero

Indeed - and even with an attendant, Chase's advice to "Explain to the merchant that your card is Chip with Signature and a PIN is not required or necessary" is a joke! Even if there isn't a language barrier, often the cashier or attendant firmly refuses to process with a signature and will insist it's PIN only. You can try to "explain" all you want, you're likely going to have to whip out some cash or go without the purchase, in my experience.