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USA issuers announce EMV cards (Chip & PIN -or- Chip & Signature).

USA issuers announce EMV cards (Chip & PIN -or- Chip & Signature).

Old Jan 11, 2012, 5:47 pm
  #556  
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Originally Posted by QueenOfCoach
I have a Citibank Aadvantage card with my photo on the front. It's useful because I don't have to dig in wallet for my DL if a store cashier asks for ID. The ID is right on the card.
Though I haven't seen a Citi photocard, is the photo positioned the same as BofA photocards; to the upper left corner of the front of the card?

If so, I could understand why they may have difficulty in incorporating a photo to a chip card as the location of the EMV chip is around that area: the chip would just obstruct your face and torso which defeats the purpose of a photo being there.

The photocard concept is withering away fast though; haven't seen any bank really pushing the photocard concept as much as they used to.

Very few merchants (or the minimum wage earning cashier) really checks ID these days either as their main objective is get through you as fast as possible and get to the next customer waiting in line behind you. The only place that I know where they still check ID is my local BestBuy, and even then it varies from cashier to cashier.

Originally Posted by QueenOfCoach
I am thinking of getting a new chip card, but keeping my old photocard for use in the USA. When I travel to Europe, I would just swap cards in my wallet and take the chip card. The new card would have the same account number.

Is that possible? Or would the old card die when I get and activate the new card? What about the three-digit code on the back? Would I have to use the new three-digit security code when shopping online?
Depends on numerous of factors.

If you get your new chipped card and if the card number and the CCV2 three digit code hasn't changed, then the two probably can be used interchangeably. I can't say for certain so to be safe I'd bring along both cards during overseas travel.

If not, I probably won't risk it and start using the chip+mag stripe card as a total replacement over the photo+mag stripe one.

Last edited by kebosabi; Jan 11, 2012 at 5:52 pm
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Old Jan 12, 2012, 1:09 am
  #557  
 
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I wonder if I "Lost" my AMEX card in London, it would be replaced with a chip and pin card??
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Old Jan 12, 2012, 1:51 am
  #558  
 
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I'm not surprised citi is having trouble processing these cards. I got offered one of their 2G rewards cards (https://creditcards.citicards.com/us...F457413BA95479) but after 3 or 4 attempts I still did not have the correct card - just the regular plastic and extra paypass tags. Only after I gave up on the last try did they send the correct one separate from one of my requests.
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Old Jan 12, 2012, 8:45 am
  #559  
 
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Originally Posted by PlatDrew
I wonder if I "Lost" my AMEX card in London, it would be replaced with a chip and pin card??
Seems unlikely. If it's a US-based card, I'd expect the replacement to be sent from the US.
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Old Jan 12, 2012, 9:08 am
  #560  
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Originally Posted by OverThereTooMuch
...replacement to be sent from the US.
More likely a temporary card would be fabricated at the nearest American Express office, and a permanent replacement would be mailed to the billing address. I have had this done and it was interesting to watch and listen to the machine make the card while I waited. The office only had blank stock for a few basic card colors.

Adding a chip to an account isn't simply a matter of having it in the physical card. The account would need to be reconfigured to use that transaction validation method.
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Old Jan 12, 2012, 9:14 am
  #561  
 
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Originally Posted by mia
The office only had blank stock for a few basic card colors.
You should've asked for some extra blank ones
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Old Jan 12, 2012, 9:16 am
  #562  
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Originally Posted by OverThereTooMuch
Seems unlikely. If it's a US-based card, I'd expect the replacement to be sent from the US.
That used to be the case in the past: if an US AMEX cardholder lost his/her card in say, Japan for example, AMEX USA would overnight a replacement card to the person in Japan.

However, lately AMEX has been doing cost cutting measures that instead of overnighting them via expensive couriers, they would just have AMEX Japan issue the replacement card on the behalf of AMEX USA on a generic AMEX Green Card stock.

Case in point, my mother once lost her Costco AMEX issued in the US while visiting Japan. I called AMEX USA on her behalf and they had a replacement AMEX waiting for her at the nearest AMEX Travel Center in Tokyo. They provided her with a generic AMEX Green Card that was issued by AMEX Japan as a temporary measure, while her replacement Costco AMEX was sent to her permanent address in the US.

Of course maybe this was true because AMEX Japan doesn't issue EMV hybrid cards as well.
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Old Jan 12, 2012, 9:45 am
  #563  
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Originally Posted by MrPink
I'm not surprised citi is having trouble processing these cards. I got offered one of their 2G rewards cards (https://creditcards.citicards.com/us...F457413BA95479) but after 3 or 4 attempts I still did not have the correct card - just the regular plastic and extra paypass tags. Only after I gave up on the last try did they send the correct one separate from one of my requests.
My take is that with many US banks being so used to just throwing out offer after another (50,000 bonus points, no annual fee, etc.) that exist solely in the software end, they seem to have completely forgotten how to handle requests that are on the hardware end; the physical features on the cards themselves.

For the past many decades, it always has been:
  • card design stock
  • embossed card number, cardholder's name, expiration date, other
  • VISA, MC, or AMEX logo
  • VISA, MC, or AMEX hologram
  • magnetic stripe
  • signature area

That default list hasn't changed for the past 25 years or so for US card issuers and everything else has been back side software offers.

Now changing times (global compatibility issues, increased skimming fraud rates, future consideration of contactless payments, etc.) are going back to the features incorporated within the physical card itself which now also include options in addition to the default list as above such as:
  • cardholder's photo?
  • contactless chip inside the card?
  • if so, add respective VISA PayWave, MC PayPass, AMEX ExpressPay logo
  • EMV global chip outside the card?
  • redesign card stock if needed in consideration of the EMV global chip
  • switchable/re-writable magnetic stripe cards by Dynamics (what Citi refers to as 2G cards)?
  • Or should they use Dynamics' new Chip and Choice cards which won the best of show at CARTES last November which includes EMV and the rewritable mag-stripe?

Such extensive list being added these days it may not be able to keep up with what CSRs has been used to for the past 25 years.

Let alone, how many CSRs at Citi have been working as a CSR for over 25 years that remembers the last time there was a big physical feature change that was added to the credit card: switching from the embossed card number to embossed card number + mag-stripe hybrid card "technology" of the late 1970s and early 1980s? Very few I presume.


Perhaps they banks could learn from how Dell and car makers does it: create a checklist of the physical options per every make and model. 8GB of RAM or 16GB or RAM? Generic DVD drive or Blu-ray drive? Basic 4 way car stereo, or premium car audio? Do you want fog lights on your car?

Last edited by kebosabi; Jan 12, 2012 at 9:53 am
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Old Jan 12, 2012, 1:22 pm
  #564  
 
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Originally Posted by kebosabi
If you get your new chipped card and if the card number and the CCV2 three digit code hasn't changed, then the two probably can be used interchangeably. I can't say for certain so to be safe I'd bring along both cards during overseas travel.
No this won't work. Despite the card number and expiry date being the same, the magnetic stripe data will be different. The service code on the magnetic stripe of an EMV card is different from that on a non-EMV card. (This is how a EMV terminal knows when you swipe an EMV card and prompts you to use the chip reader instead). As well, the discretionary data field is likely different as issuers use that field as a way of validating the version of the card being used.
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Old Jan 13, 2012, 8:32 am
  #565  
 
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Originally Posted by kebosabi
That used to be the case in the past: if an US AMEX cardholder lost his/her card in say, Japan for example, AMEX USA would overnight a replacement card to the person in Japan.

However, lately AMEX has been doing cost cutting measures that instead of overnighting them via expensive couriers, they would just have AMEX Japan issue the replacement card on the behalf of AMEX USA on a generic AMEX Green Card stock.

Case in point, my mother once lost her Costco AMEX issued in the US while visiting Japan. I called AMEX USA on her behalf and they had a replacement AMEX waiting for her at the nearest AMEX Travel Center in Tokyo. They provided her with a generic AMEX Green Card that was issued by AMEX Japan as a temporary measure, while her replacement Costco AMEX was sent to her permanent address in the US.

Of course maybe this was true because AMEX Japan doesn't issue EMV hybrid cards as well.
Same thing happened to me. Reported my Costco AmEx lost at 10AM in Tokyo, got my replacement at 3PM. It was also Green.

I do wonder if the AmEx Japan temporary card is usable after the US permanent replacement is activated?
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Old Jan 13, 2012, 1:03 pm
  #566  
 
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Originally Posted by D582
No this won't work. Despite the card number and expiry date being the same, the magnetic stripe data will be different. The service code on the magnetic stripe of an EMV card is different from that on a non-EMV card. (This is how a EMV terminal knows when you swipe an EMV card and prompts you to use the chip reader instead). As well, the discretionary data field is likely different as issuers use that field as a way of validating the version of the card being used.
Exactly. I've tested this. When I forgot the PIN to my chip-pin card, I lost the ability to swipe and sign. The card became useless. I swiped, and the machine rejected the card because the track data apparently disclosed the fact that the card had an EMV chip. Even though I wanted the product and the merchant wanted my money, the transaction was impossible because of the track data and how the merchants PoS device was (commonly) inadvertently configured.

A magstripe-only card swiped just fine at the very same terminal. Plus it had the extra legal protection of a signature - which is not given on US-issued chip-pin cards.
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Old Jan 13, 2012, 5:27 pm
  #567  
 
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Originally Posted by D582
No this won't work. Despite the card number and expiry date being the same, the magnetic stripe data will be different. The service code on the magnetic stripe of an EMV card is different from that on a non-EMV card.
I called Citibank today and asked if the photocard would be usuable if I get the chip card. Negative. One card per person per account.

I went ahead and ordered the card.

Another issue: I have a good friend who is a bank security expert. He told me that getting a chip card now is a smart move. Visa and MC is putting pressure on merchants to start accepting the chip card, and things are slowly moving in that direction. The merchant card reader is expensive.
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Old Jan 13, 2012, 5:45 pm
  #568  
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Originally Posted by QueenOfCoach
The merchant card reader is expensive.
It's actually not that really expensive; the manufacturers of those POS machines currently have to build two different model types POS terminals:
  • the mag-stripe only ones for the US market
  • the all inclusive mag-stripe+contactless+EMV terminals for the rest of the world

With VISA and MC pushing US merchants to ditch the mag-stripe and move onto EMV and contactless, the manufacturers have agreed do just phase out the production of the mag-stripe only model that was intended for the US market and ramp up production of the terminals that is used by the rest of the world. As production numbers increase, the cost starts to fall. It also makes sense for the manufacturers as well; why continue making something that only handles the mag-stripe for a specific market, when the terminal model used by the rest of the world can handle all three all over the world?

Besides, if you consider that those POS terminals have an end-of-life (no machine lasts forever), they have to be eventually replaced anyway. By the time it comes to replace those terminals, the manufacturers have phased out the mag-stripe only readers and are making terminals in mass quantities that allow for all three forms of technology in one terminal.

If you look at some of the bigger retailers like Wal-Mart, Target, 7-Eleven, and even your local Post Office, they already have some of those terminals. There's the usual mag-stripe to the side, the contactless terminal on top, and a slit near the bottom for chipped EMV cards. The slot is already in place, but they aren't activated live yet.
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Old Jan 13, 2012, 6:22 pm
  #569  
 
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Originally Posted by kebosabi
If you look at some of the bigger retailers like Wal-Mart, Target, 7-Eleven, and even your local Post Office, they already have some of those terminals. There's the usual mag-stripe to the side, the contactless terminal on top, and a slit near the bottom for chipped EMV cards. The slot is already in place, but they aren't activated live yet.
A lot of the newer local businesses here have the slits for EMV cards. They're usually covered up with duct tape or cardboard or something. Even the ones at Walgreens have a piece of plastic blocking the slot.
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Old Jan 13, 2012, 6:44 pm
  #570  
 
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Originally Posted by kebosabi
my mother once lost her Costco AMEX issued in the US while visiting Japan. I called AMEX USA on her behalf and they had a replacement AMEX waiting for her at the nearest AMEX Travel Center in Tokyo. They provided her with a generic AMEX Green Card that was issued by AMEX Japan as a temporary measure, while her replacement Costco AMEX was sent to her permanent address in the US.
Ugh. Off topic, but had I known this before I could have saved a month of waiting when I lost my Plat Card in Seoul!
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