No gates for rent = all gates occupied
No pads available = there is no parking place to put an aircraft; also called
a hard stand area
Bus passenges to terminal = not always an option due to lack of buses
or the time it takes to arrange one, often up to 4 hours
to get buses for duty
Walking down stairs = very dangerous especially in bad weather
I can assure you that CO was trying to get you into a gate and off the plane as soon as possible. This costs CO alot: the gas to keep the plane running, the cost of the crew (they are still being paid) and the good will that is lost by having you stuck on board.
1. I believe "all gates occupied" is not a true statement. I am willing to believe that all gates for which CO had an existing agreement were occupied.
2. I know what the gas cost to "keep the plane running", which they only did as far as keeping the lights on, and it is not much at all.
3. The good will that is lost is an excellent point. If I hadn't posted about it, that cost would have been less. I'm just doing my part.
__________________
My profile only lists status I've earned (not Centurion amenities)
Once you try Red, you'll never go back to Ted
1. I believe "all gates occupied" is not a true statement. I am willing to believe that all gates for which CO had an existing agreement were occupied.
2. I know what the gas cost to "keep the plane running", which they only did as far as keeping the lights on, and it is not much at all.
3. The good will that is lost is an excellent point. If I hadn't posted about it, that cost would have been less. I'm just doing my part.
I am just assuming that all available gates were occupied. I know that at SFO we just call other airlines to ask for the use of their empty gate...either they say yes or they say no.
Programs: CO Platinum or Gold since the dark days, now MM
Posts: 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by CO Insider
Hi aviators99, sorry you had to endure what was clearly a frustrating situation. In this particular case, we proceeded with what appeared to be our most viable option.
That evening, the weather prediction was for .75" if snow, when in actuality 3" snow fell between 7:30 PM to 10:30PM, with continued fluries until midnight. While that may not seem like alot, the airport did have to close runways for clearing, and at times, only allowed flights to land. As a result, all gates were occupied and the aircraft who landed ahead of your flight filled every possible "pad" location. As a result, there was no place to push the Continental aircraft occupying our gates. To compound this issue, airlines couldn't deice their aircraft fast enought to meet the deicing fluid FAA limits (30 minutes). Unfortunately, upon landing, there were no gates for us to use (or even rent), nor were there any pad locations.
We did consider diverting to another airport as an option, but no option would've been better than what you endured. Boeing field, our primary diversion airport, was snowed in. Portland or Spokane were options, but were ruled out because they would've involved a comparable amount of hold time, plus the potential of a much more significant delay.
Sorry again - this was an unfortunate situation. You can bet we're working with Port of Seattle to create better alternatives for this type of situation in the future.
This COInsider guy sure knows how to diffuse situations. His forthright replies are a breath of fresh air. Let's clone him...
This COInsider guy sure knows how to diffuse situations. His forthright replies are a breath of fresh air. Let's clone him...
His last two paragraphs are the ones I was looking for: That diverting would have been worse (even for someone willing to drive), and that they are working on trying to make sure this doesn't happen in the future. I really hope that is true.
I hope that CO can be more creative as well, and not just try to solve this with the port. Barring a comment to the contrary, I am assuming that the reason Alaska Air wasn't contacted was political, and this should not be a reason for trapping passengers in an airplane for this amount of time.
__________________
My profile only lists status I've earned (not Centurion amenities)
Once you try Red, you'll never go back to Ted
His last two paragraphs are the ones I was looking for: That diverting would have been worse (even for someone willing to drive), and that they are working on trying to make sure this doesn't happen in the future. I really hope that is true.
I hope that CO can be more creative as well, and not just try to solve this with the port. Barring a comment to the contrary, I am assuming that the reason Alaska Air wasn't contacted was political, and this should not be a reason for trapping passengers in an airplane for this amount of time.
Why do you assume that Alaska Airline wasn't contacted? They use our gates at SFO alot and so does USAir, just as we have used theirs.
Why do you assume that Alaska Airline wasn't contacted? They use our gates at SFO alot and so does USAir, just as we have used theirs.
It's because regardless of what we do, we always could have done something better.
We do it wrong, we are wrong. We do it right, we are wrong for something else... at least this seems to be the growing trend that I see in the industry...
They get their first class upgrade, but don't get their meal choice.
They get their free drink with their Continental coupon, but it was Skyy when they wanted Grey Goose, and we didn't have olives.
We arrive somewhere early, but the announcements were too loud or the gate for their connecting flight was switched, and now have to walk to E-1 instead of C-45.
We divert to save a passenger's life after experiencing a heart attack, but Mr. Smith misses his meeting.
The gate agent waives the $50 fee and puts them on an earlier flight as a "thank you" for their constant business - but then they get the last seat on the plane and are furious that it's a middle, and that they have to gate check their bag.
etc etc etc...
__________________
My posts reflect my opinions and views, and do not necessarily reflect the views and/or policy of Continental Airlines.
Location: Spring, TX (17 minutes from IAH - then another 30 to park)
Programs: CO Plat, IHG Plat Royal Amb, SWA A+, Hertz PC, Avis PC
Posts: 13
I completely agree with LukeSkywaiter. However, I think that it mostly comes down to communication. No matter what our jobs, if we do our utmost to communicate fully with customers, they are generally understanding.
Location: Various tier levels of frequent flyer/hotel plans received for bellyaching about minor flaws in the service I received.
Posts: 216
Quote:
Originally Posted by featheroleather
What kind of computer doesn't work on the ground
Often you're not allowed to put your tray table down, or, sometimes, I've stored mine in the overhead, and you can't get up to get it out b/c you're on an active taxiway.
Programs: CO Platinum, SPG Platinum, HH Gold - whatever that's worth now :(
Posts: 12,365
Quote:
Originally Posted by IGoogledU
I completely agree with LukeSkywaiter. However, I think that it mostly comes down to communication. No matter what our jobs, if we do our utmost to communicate fully with customers, they are generally understanding.
I think that if the crew of 467 stated essentially the same thing as our Insider wrote in this thread, there might have been significantly fewer angry and frustrated customers. I'm fairly certain the crew didn't feel like sitting there for an extra few hours either, likely since most of them had already taken at least one other flight that same day.
__________________ Rich and 50 is the same as middle-class and 30
It's because regardless of what we do, we always could have done something better.
We do it wrong, we are wrong. We do it right, we are wrong for something else... at least this seems to be the growing trend that I see in the industry...
They get their first class upgrade, but don't get their meal choice.
They get their free drink with their Continental coupon, but it was Skyy when they wanted Grey Goose, and we didn't have olives.
We arrive somewhere early, but the announcements were too loud or the gate for their connecting flight was switched, and now have to walk to E-1 instead of C-45.
We divert to save a passenger's life after experiencing a heart attack, but Mr. Smith misses his meeting.
The gate agent waives the $50 fee and puts them on an earlier flight as a "thank you" for their constant business - but then they get the last seat on the plane and are furious that it's a middle, and that they have to gate check their bag.
etc etc etc...
I know that you don't know me, but I'm not that person. Like all of you, I'm a very frequent flyer. My expectations are appropriately low for legacy carriers, and I don't complain when they are met. What do *you* think the amount of time on the ground *after landing* is at which point you would say that CO should have done something different/drastic? If it's not 2 hours, is it 3? 4? What's your magic number?
__________________
My profile only lists status I've earned (not Centurion amenities)
Once you try Red, you'll never go back to Ted
I think that it mostly comes down to communication.
Most of the time the pax do not believe what we tell them anyway. I hear the comments when I am non-reving and I hear the comments when I am working on the plane and in the terminal.
I know that you don't know me, but I'm not that person. Like all of you, I'm a very frequent flyer. My expectations are appropriately low for legacy carriers, and I don't complain when they are met. What do *you* think the amount of time on the ground *after landing* is at which point you would say that CO should have done something different/drastic? If it's not 2 hours, is it 3? 4? What's your magic number?
I don't get you. You receive a detailed explaination from COInsider as to why this happened and yet you still refuse to believe anything told to you.
What's it going to take to get you to believe the truth?
I don't get you. You receive a detailed explaination from COInsider as to why this happened and yet you still refuse to believe anything told to you.
What's it going to take to get you to believe the truth?
What are you talking about? Can you be more specific? Why do you find it necessary to mischaracterize my comments? I "refuse to believe anything he told me?" Where on earth did you get that idea? It boggles my mind.
__________________
My profile only lists status I've earned (not Centurion amenities)
Once you try Red, you'll never go back to Ted
What are you talking about? Can you be more specific? Why do you find it necessary to mischaracterize my comments? I "refuse to believe anything he told me?" Where on earth did you get that idea? It boggles my mind.
Quote:
Originally Posted by aviators99
His last two paragraphs are the ones I was looking for: That diverting would have been worse (even for someone willing to drive), and that they are working on trying to make sure this doesn't happen in the future. I really hope that is true.
I hope that CO can be more creative as well, and not just try to solve this with the port. Barring a comment to the contrary, I am assuming that the reason Alaska Air wasn't contacted was political, and this should not be a reason for trapping passengers in an airplane for this amount of time.
You assume that Alaska Airlines had open gates when COInsider said that nothing was available. Not that CO refused to contact them because of political reasons. Why would you make a statement such as this, if you believed COInsider's explanation?
Programs: CO Platinum, SPG Platinum, HH Gold - whatever that's worth now :(
Posts: 12,365
Quote:
Originally Posted by sfogate
I don't get you. You receive a detailed explaination from COInsider as to why this happened and yet you still refuse to believe anything told to you.
What's it going to take to get you to believe the truth?
None of us our doubting what COInsider wrote - in fact we're thrilled that he took the time to research this debacle and comment on it in the first place.
Our concern or further debate, if you will, is around what could have been done by CO Ops and the Port of Seattle to remedy this situation on the spot. Perhaps both the Port and some other airlines told CO Ops "sorry, we're full up and there is nothing we can do", but I would have hoped that CO explored both every possible option with the Port as well as escalated the matter more aggressively.
CO is a customer of the Port of Seattle, and SEA-TAC airport. In my business we treat our vendors respectfully, but in the event one of them messes up or is unable to creatively work their way out of a jam, we can get *very* pushy and aggressive with them, and eventually force them to do something, even if they don't want to do it. Truthfully, I was not part of the conversations between CO and the Port, so I can only offer a form of trademark FlyerTalk armchair quarterbacking, but if I was the Ops director on duty that night, I would have escalated the issue through the CO exec team as well as the exec team at the Port and airport director's office and not stopped harassing them until some creative solution was found to offload my customers well before 4+ hours had passed.
I know SEA-TAC very well, as it's now my primary airport destination, so I can think of a few options they could have tried to at least get the passengers off, even if their bags would have waited for later. I only question how aggressive CO Ops was with the Port and airport director before allowing this issue to stretch out to 4+ hours.
__________________ Rich and 50 is the same as middle-class and 30
