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Old Apr 21, 09, 8:40 pm   #1
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Thumbs up Praise to flight 40 crew on 4-21: Landing a 762 without flaps!

I was on #40 (a 762) today from IAH-EWR when the captain came on and said that we'd have to land without the flaps. He warned us that it'd probably be a bumpy approach and there would be firetrucks lining the runway waiting for our arrival. He also said that bringing the big bird to a stop wouldn't be an issue (I later realized that he never said he'd stop it before the Peddie Ditch or Avenue E).

However, they did an awesome job at bringing the plane to a stop. It was obvious we touched down MUCH faster than I've ever encountered, but they managed to bring it to stop shortly before the end of the runway. We had to pull off the runway & wait (with the firetrucks) until the brakes, tires, etc., cooled down enough that it was safe to pull to a gate. When we finally got to the gate, a NYPD officer went straight into the cockpit before we were all allowed to leave.

Is there any way to tell if/when the plane flew next? #40 continues to FCO, but they use a 764 on that route, so it's obviously not that plane.
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Old Apr 21, 09, 8:48 pm   #2
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Originally Posted by IAHtraveler View Post
a NYPD officer went straight into the cockpit before we were all allowed to leave.
Just a point of clarification, the NYPD does not have jurisdiction over Newark Airport, the Port Authority of New York & New Jersey (PANY/NJ) does and their uniform and patches look very similar.
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Old Apr 21, 09, 8:50 pm   #3
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The crew certainly deserves credit for a job well done. That said, landing without flaps, while not routine for the Boeing 767, is something that any 767 pilot can do in an otherwise functioning aircraft, and they're trained to do it. Indeed, a no-flaps landing will be preferable under some circumstances (like where deployment could result in asymmetrical flaps and pose a threat to control of the aircraft).
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Old Apr 21, 09, 8:52 pm   #4
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Thank Goodness

Sounds like an outstanding job by the flight deck crew.

I take it there were no injuries on board. Did the fa's ask you to assume the crash positions?

I wonder if you know whether any tires were blown, which is a common issue in landing without flaps?
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Old Apr 21, 09, 8:56 pm   #5
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PDA site said it is ship #153. N73153

ACARS and the PDA site confirm that #153 is on EWR-FCO as flight 42 and it left at 10:05 (5 min late). Whatever flaps problem it had, MX got it fixed in the 6.5hrs it sat at EWR.

Last edited by colpuck; Apr 21, 09 at 9:07 pm
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Old Apr 21, 09, 9:45 pm   #6
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Originally Posted by jrzyshawn View Post
Just a point of clarification, the NYPD does not have jurisdiction over Newark Airport, the Port Authority of New York & New Jersey (PANY/NJ) does and their uniform and patches look very similar.
Oops, thanks for that clarification.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TWA Fan 1 View Post
Sounds like an outstanding job by the flight deck crew.

I take it there were no injuries on board. Did the fa's ask you to assume the crash positions?

I wonder if you know whether any tires were blown, which is a common issue in landing without flaps?
Definitely "outstanding"! I think this was the first time I've been on a domestic flight that everyone clapped once the plane was under control on the ground. They didn't have us take the crash positions and there weren't any injuries. The pilot was very calm and reassured us everything would be fine, just a fast/bumpy landing. It was a surprisingly smooth landing, just fast.

Also, I don't think we had any blown tires, but I didn't think to look when we got off the plane. They said we had to wait for everything to cool down before they would release the fire trucks. We then went with our own power to the gate.
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Old Apr 21, 09, 10:13 pm   #7
  
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Originally Posted by IAHtraveler View Post
Oops, thanks for that clarification.



Definitely "outstanding"! I think this was the first time I've been on a domestic flight that everyone clapped once the plane was under control on the ground. They didn't have us take the crash positions and there weren't any injuries. The pilot was very calm and reassured us everything would be fine, just a fast/bumpy landing. It was a surprisingly smooth landing, just fast.

Also, I don't think we had any blown tires, but I didn't think to look when we got off the plane. They said we had to wait for everything to cool down before they would release the fire trucks. We then went with our own power to the gate.
You confirmed your own suspicion.....no way they could/would have taxied with a blown tire.
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Old Apr 21, 09, 11:03 pm   #8
  
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As part of the many safeguards built into an aircraft, protection from asymmetrical flap deployment is one of them. When extending flaps, if they start deploying unevenly they just freeze up. That way, they don't keep getting further apart, even if they aren't extended very far; it keeps them from getting into a worse asymmetrical position. So once this happens, wherever the flaps freeze is what they have to land with. It ends up being fast but at least it's not heavy (after a normal flight).

As far as the fix, it can be as simple as a system software reset. The mechanic jacks into the computer (often in the nose gear wheel well), clears the fault, and the flaps work normally after that.
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Old Apr 22, 09, 8:21 am   #9
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For the technical ones among you

Here's the FlightAware track log for this flight, compared with the one the previous day, in the last final minutes:

Time / Ground Speed / Altitude
  • 15:14 193 3000
  • 15:15 188 2900
  • 15:16 179 2500
  • 15:17 176 1700
  • 15:18 169 800

Time / Ground Speed / Altitude
  • 15:00 192 3000
  • 15:02 173 2800
  • 15:03 151 1800
  • 15:04 125 1100
  • 15:05 122 400

So yes, significantly faster! Obviously this is ground speed not airspeed, but still an interesting comparison.
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Old Apr 22, 09, 8:36 am   #10
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Originally Posted by star_world View Post
For the technical ones among you

Here's the FlightAware track log for this flight, compared with the one the previous day, in the last final minutes:

Time / Ground Speed / Altitude
  • 15:14 193 3000
  • 15:15 188 2900
  • 15:16 179 2500
  • 15:17 176 1700
  • 15:18 169 800

Time / Ground Speed / Altitude
  • 15:00 192 3000
  • 15:02 173 2800
  • 15:03 151 1800
  • 15:04 125 1100
  • 15:05 122 400

So yes, significantly faster! Obviously this is ground speed not airspeed, but still an interesting comparison.
Still, I'm impressed that an a/c this big can land without flaps at 169 kph. That's only slightly faster than a 744 landing with full flaps.
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Old Apr 22, 09, 8:37 am   #11
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That's pretty awesome. I suppose the spoilers were operational but no flaps?
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Old Apr 22, 09, 9:00 am   #12
  
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which runway?

Did this flight land on the outer runway (4R/22L) as is usual for arrivals, or was the longer inner runway (4L/22R) used instead?
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Old Apr 22, 09, 9:07 am   #13
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Originally Posted by TWA Fan 1 View Post
Still, I'm impressed that an a/c this big can land without flaps at 169 kph. That's only slightly faster than a 744 landing with full flaps.
Even more impressive when you consider that the number shown is in knots. So the plane was actually traveling at almost 200 miles/hour when it touched down.
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Old Apr 22, 09, 1:27 pm   #14
  
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I was in a KLM flight landing at Lisbon once where the flaps would not go down. The pilot warned us and everyone was nervous, but it was one of the smoothest landings I remember. I don't remember any special fire trucks or treatment at the Lisbon airport, we just taxied to gate as normal from what I could tell.
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Old Apr 22, 09, 2:04 pm   #15
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Originally Posted by sbm12 View Post
Even more impressive when you consider that the number shown is in knots. So the plane was actually traveling at almost 200 miles/hour when it touched down.
No question, especially on a plane that is not designed to land at this speed.

Again, though, it's not easy to land a plane this big so "slowly" without the flaps because of the angle of attack issue.

Kudos to the flight deck crew and thank goodness everyone was safe.
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