1K Buy-Up to F | You win SMI/J. But only this time.
Feb 16, 2012, 6:18 am
#46
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: IAD
Programs: UA 1K, Marriott Rewards - LTPP
Posts: 4,240
Thanks for the update Shannon, we truly appreciate the effort and follow through. Hopefully the market issue will fix most of the offers, but I think some of us were really surprised that a GM would ever be offered anything less than $75 or $100. With bag fees and ELR the decision for a GM becomes a much easier one, and UA/CO is getting the money anyway. I think if there was a higher minimum for GMs it would alleviate some of the frustration.
Feb 16, 2012, 6:24 am
#47
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Join Date: Apr 2008
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Thanks Shannon - this helps to explain a lot of the offers to/from EWR, as prices to/from there for many routes are always going to be a lot more than LGA/JFK, leisure routes excepted.
Still feel like we've seen plenty of other "issues" though - let's all double-down on reporting the TODs to UA Insider, I'm happy to pull the current fares whenever one is posted here.
Still feel like we've seen plenty of other "issues" though - let's all double-down on reporting the TODs to UA Insider, I'm happy to pull the current fares whenever one is posted here.
Feb 16, 2012, 7:25 am
#48
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: SEA/YVR/BLI
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And this lengthy thread shows the concern and confusion about those GM-over-Elite UG offers.
Feb 16, 2012, 9:30 am
#49
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Las Vegas
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Posts: 6,638
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I think this explains the tens of dollar TODs, and its awesome that UA spent time to research our concerns.
However, my concern remains that on some flights GMs receive offers elites don't or lower offers- and I think we should continue to report said offers on FT
I think this explains the tens of dollar TODs, and its awesome that UA spent time to research our concerns.
However, my concern remains that on some flights GMs receive offers elites don't or lower offers- and I think we should continue to report said offers on FT
Feb 16, 2012, 10:32 am
#50
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Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 57,581
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I think this explains the tens of dollar TODs, and its awesome that UA spent time to research our concerns.
However, my concern remains that on some flights GMs receive offers elites don't or lower offers- and I think we should continue to report said offers on FT
I think this explains the tens of dollar TODs, and its awesome that UA spent time to research our concerns.
However, my concern remains that on some flights GMs receive offers elites don't or lower offers- and I think we should continue to report said offers on FT
Feb 16, 2012, 10:45 am
#51
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: ORD
Programs: UA 1K/MM, MC Life Plat, HH Gold
Posts: 722
Kudos to Shannon for tracking down a specific bug that probably did lead to much of the aberrant behavior we've seen. Another area where I think there may be a bug lurking is in pricing segments. For example, awhile back I got an absurdly low buy-up offer for the first leg of an AUS-IAH-ORD ticket. I did not accept the offer and of course my upgrade didn't clear, but I wondered how they had priced out that segment for their buy-up calculation, given that I had bought an AUS-ORD fare.
For example, did they use an AUS-IAH fare, which happens to be much higher than I had paid for my entire ticket? This seems to be an area worth investigating, which could be the cause of a lot of other anomalies.
Here's a message on another subject I PMed directly to make sure Shannon saw it:
For example, did they use an AUS-IAH fare, which happens to be much higher than I had paid for my entire ticket? This seems to be an area worth investigating, which could be the cause of a lot of other anomalies.
Here's a message on another subject I PMed directly to make sure Shannon saw it:
Hi Shannon,
I appreciated your post today and all of the work you've been doing to track down upgrade bugs. I'd like to point out, though, what I believe to be a design error that will still exist after all the bugs are fixed.
Let's say I'm on the upgrade standby list with two other elites for a flight that still has 10 open F seats. Your current algorithm would sell 7 seats at deep discounts to other people, leaving 3 seats for the elites on the list. Those remaining seats would continue to be offered to everyone based on the regular buy-up pricing or could be taken by anyone with a higher priority than me who moves to the flight before my upgrade is cleared. So basically there's a good chance that I could be sitting back in Economy, while 7 people had moved to First on cheap upgrades. To add insult to injury, maybe I wasn't even offered the cheap upgrade since the system expected me to get it for free.
The obvious solution to this problem is to only offer discounted upgrades after you actually clear all of the known elites into F. Even then, though, you should probably still reserve some seats for full-price upgrades or last-minutes adds to the passenger list. If this makes sense to you, I hope you'll encourage your company to make it a high priority to correct.
Thanks,
Joel
I appreciated your post today and all of the work you've been doing to track down upgrade bugs. I'd like to point out, though, what I believe to be a design error that will still exist after all the bugs are fixed.
Let's say I'm on the upgrade standby list with two other elites for a flight that still has 10 open F seats. Your current algorithm would sell 7 seats at deep discounts to other people, leaving 3 seats for the elites on the list. Those remaining seats would continue to be offered to everyone based on the regular buy-up pricing or could be taken by anyone with a higher priority than me who moves to the flight before my upgrade is cleared. So basically there's a good chance that I could be sitting back in Economy, while 7 people had moved to First on cheap upgrades. To add insult to injury, maybe I wasn't even offered the cheap upgrade since the system expected me to get it for free.
The obvious solution to this problem is to only offer discounted upgrades after you actually clear all of the known elites into F. Even then, though, you should probably still reserve some seats for full-price upgrades or last-minutes adds to the passenger list. If this makes sense to you, I hope you'll encourage your company to make it a high priority to correct.
Thanks,
Joel
Last edited by joel67; Feb 16, 2012 at 11:14 am
Feb 16, 2012, 12:54 pm
#52
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: LAX
Programs: DL-PM | UA-1K | HH-Gold
Posts: 938
Despite being the "beneficiary" of this glitch. I, for one, appreciate the efforts to fix it. From subsequent perusing of FT I've also found out that when my CR1 cleared on the LAX>JFK portion of the itinerary that it likely put my ticket "out of sync" which means that I wasn't clearing on the automatic upgrade list with other 1Ks on my EWR>PHX return. This means I was probably one of the only 1Ks left on the wait-list when the offer was made, making the circumstances even messier to untangle. Shannon, I invite you to PM me if you'd like any additional specifics on the ticket or my total itinerary -- I'd be happy to provide them.
These systems issues are disappointing. Expected I suppose, but that only gets you so far.
Shannon, however, has always been (IME) the most responsive company representative on these boards. So this, as a positive take-away, continues to support that view. One of the best in the business (sorry, had to).
Thanks again, glad my experience may help address this issue.
These systems issues are disappointing. Expected I suppose, but that only gets you so far.
Shannon, however, has always been (IME) the most responsive company representative on these boards. So this, as a positive take-away, continues to support that view. One of the best in the business (sorry, had to).
Thanks again, glad my experience may help address this issue.
Feb 16, 2012, 1:10 pm
#53
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: SRQ-NYC-DCA
Programs: OnePass Infinite CO MM, PC Charter Lifer SkyMiles GM, MileagePlus
Posts: 1,826
Thank You
Upgrade offer logic is working correctly
Specifically, when there are more front cabin seats, than there are Elite customers, the lower, discounted fee-based offer is being made. When there are more Elites than seats, the offer is based on the difference between the fare class purchased and the lowest fare class that qualifies the customer to confirm an upgraded seat.
I know that many of you have cited cases of receiving “tens of dollars” upgrade offers recently. Our challenge in researching these is that there is a pretty small window in which the level of detail necessary to assess the situation is accessible.
Personally, I’d like to thank you for continuing to share your feedback with us, and more importantly, for your patience with us during this time of extreme transition.
We’re committed to being upfront
and sharing the insight behind any policy changes with you. We'll also always ackowledge our mistakes and fix things when they’re not working correctly. Your continued feedback is a key to our success. Please keep it coming.
Shannon
Specifically, when there are more front cabin seats, than there are Elite customers, the lower, discounted fee-based offer is being made. When there are more Elites than seats, the offer is based on the difference between the fare class purchased and the lowest fare class that qualifies the customer to confirm an upgraded seat.
I know that many of you have cited cases of receiving “tens of dollars” upgrade offers recently. Our challenge in researching these is that there is a pretty small window in which the level of detail necessary to assess the situation is accessible.
Personally, I’d like to thank you for continuing to share your feedback with us, and more importantly, for your patience with us during this time of extreme transition.
We’re committed to being upfront
and sharing the insight behind any policy changes with you. We'll also always ackowledge our mistakes and fix things when they’re not working correctly. Your continued feedback is a key to our success. Please keep it coming.
Shannon
Although I am grateful for any response at all I feel that
these comments do not fully address the current issues
There have been all too many specific cases detailed here
Offering the TODs to non elites is a big issue but not the only
I continue to have hope that once the bigger elements of
pulling all these disparate components together some of
the higher powers may reconsider what has been proposed
Many of us have been there through thick & thin & many
of us feel that we deserve much better treatment
Ever hopeful
Feb 16, 2012, 1:27 pm
#54
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: SRQ-NYC-DCA
Programs: OnePass Infinite CO MM, PC Charter Lifer SkyMiles GM, MileagePlus
Posts: 1,826
Feb 16, 2012, 3:32 pm
#55
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: IAH / HOU
Programs: UA GS, DL-Plat, Hilton Gold, IHG Platinum, Hyatt Somethingist, Marriott Titanium Lifetime
Posts: 2,853
As a reminder, if you experience issues send all the details in a PM so Shannon can investigate. UA can never get to the bottom of all the issues without the proper information to troubleshoot them.
PS: Thank you Shannon for the detailed info.
PS: Thank you Shannon for the detailed info.
Feb 18, 2012, 4:39 pm
#56
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: SFO/SMF
Programs: UA Silver Kettle, IHG Platinum & slop status in all others
Posts: 46
GM's getting UG offers and Elite members not
Feb 18, 2012, 6:16 pm
#57
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: SRQ-NYC-DCA
Programs: OnePass Infinite CO MM, PC Charter Lifer SkyMiles GM, MileagePlus
Posts: 1,826
Details Please
& the specific U/G offer dollar amounts
I have been shown a few at the bottom of the res
that were for fairly serious shekels & of no use
Mar 2, 2012, 6:08 pm
#58
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 4,645
Shannon - In this thread another issue has been raised which I'd like to ask for your input on - because it concerns me a lot too. The issue, which several members have raised here, is that there are buy-up offers being given to members without any status and those offers are not being given to 1Ks who are in waitlist with SWUs for international flights.
So, if a 1K is on the wait-list with an SWU for an international flight, a general member might be given a buy-up offer, then the general member can take the seat that would have been given to the 1K member, and the 1K member never even had the opportunity to do the buy-up.
This seems really unfair and is an unnecessary devaluation of 1K benefits. After all, how would it hurt UA to let the 1K member buy that seat instead of offering it only to the general member?
So, if a 1K is on the wait-list with an SWU for an international flight, a general member might be given a buy-up offer, then the general member can take the seat that would have been given to the 1K member, and the 1K member never even had the opportunity to do the buy-up.
This seems really unfair and is an unnecessary devaluation of 1K benefits. After all, how would it hurt UA to let the 1K member buy that seat instead of offering it only to the general member?
Mar 2, 2012, 11:14 pm
#59
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: SFO/SMF
Programs: UA Silver Kettle, IHG Platinum & slop status in all others
Posts: 46
Shannon - In this thread another issue has been raised which I'd like to ask for your input on - because it concerns me a lot too. The issue, which several members have raised here, is that there are buy-up offers being given to members without any status and those offers are not being given to 1Ks who are in waitlist with SWUs for international flights.
So, if a 1K is on the wait-list with an SWU for an international flight, a general member might be given a buy-up offer, then the general member can take the seat that would have been given to the 1K member, and the 1K member never even had the opportunity to do the buy-up.
This seems really unfair and is an unnecessary devaluation of 1K benefits. After all, how would it hurt UA to let the 1K member buy that seat instead of offering it only to the general member?
So, if a 1K is on the wait-list with an SWU for an international flight, a general member might be given a buy-up offer, then the general member can take the seat that would have been given to the 1K member, and the 1K member never even had the opportunity to do the buy-up.
This seems really unfair and is an unnecessary devaluation of 1K benefits. After all, how would it hurt UA to let the 1K member buy that seat instead of offering it only to the general member?
I would not expect United to reserve F seats for 1K or anyone else if they can make $ by selling them. Remember, we are talking about making these offers weeks before the flight not within the time period for 1K members to get their free upgrades.
Seems fair to me. Money talks.
Mar 3, 2012, 7:54 am
#60
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: LGA/JFK/EWR
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I do believe 1K members have posted that they also get buy-up offers. These offers are not just offered to general members while excluding those with elite status.
I would not expect United to reserve F seats for 1K or anyone else if they can make $ by selling them. Remember, we are talking about making these offers weeks before the flight not within the time period for 1K members to get their free upgrades.
Seems fair to me. Money talks.
I would not expect United to reserve F seats for 1K or anyone else if they can make $ by selling them. Remember, we are talking about making these offers weeks before the flight not within the time period for 1K members to get their free upgrades.
Seems fair to me. Money talks.
1. The offers to non-elites have been shown to many times be less, often dramatically so, than elite offers
2. The offers do also occur "within the time period for 1K members to get their free upgrades". That's when the worst of it arises, during T-24