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Old Sep 15, 10, 12:42 am   #1
 
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FAs making up rules...

My last two trips have been with lead FAs who decided to make the final approach announcement - and enforce it - on their own terms, as opposed to waiting for the "double ding" and the illumination of the sterile cockpit light. Both FAs did so without any instruction from the captain to sit down early because of turbulence, and both - after I politely reminded them we were only on initial - told me, "I do final early." What's ironic is that the most recent one had the nerve to go on and on about how the company is "auditing" FAs on items such as cell phone usage, jumpseat occupancy, etc, and how we all needed to watch our asses, yet had no problem making up her own final approach procedures.

I have *zero* tolerance for this bullspit, and refuse to participate (I simply kept on as I were, and let them do the cabin check on their own. When the real final came, I then did mine). As much as I would love to write them up for this, it's extremely taboo, and I refuse to write any FA up for anything less than something that jeopardizes the safety of the crew/pax.

So, my question is - what are some rules you have witnessed FAs creating and/or improperly enforcing, and what have you done about it? I strongly encourage each of you to write in to CO any time you have an FA who does things on their own terms - remember, this thread is only regarding FARS and/or company policy.
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Old Sep 15, 10, 1:37 am   #2
 
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Originally Posted by LukeSkywaiter View Post
As much as I would love to write them up for this, it's extremely taboo, and I refuse to write any FA up for anything less than something that jeopardizes the safety of the crew/pax.

...

I strongly encourage each of you to write in to CO any time you have an FA who does things on their own terms.
What do you mean by "refuse to write up". I assume it is different from reporting the FA to CO, right? Or are you strongly encuraging everyone to do what you refuse to do? Sorry for the confusion.
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Old Sep 15, 10, 1:42 am   #3
 
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Obviously, the OP is inflight crew. As such, writing up or reporting to management another FA for something short of putting the crew, plane, or passengers at risk is considered in very bad form and risks the on-board relationship with other crew.

However, there certainly has to be a way to report this departure from the book to an inflight supervisor who can remind these particular FAs that creating one's own rules is not acceptable and they need to get back on track.
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Old Sep 15, 10, 2:07 am   #4
 
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Originally Posted by TravellinHusker View Post
Obviously, the OP is inflight crew. As such, writing up or reporting to management another FA for something short of putting the crew, plane, or passengers at risk is considered in very bad form and risks the on-board relationship with other crew.

However, there certainly has to be a way to report this departure from the book to an inflight supervisor who can remind these particular FAs that creating one's own rules is not acceptable and they need to get back on track.
That I understand.

In terms of adversely impacting crew relationship, I am not sure that a strong encouragement to report colleagues, is much different from reporting one yourself.

That being said. I like the OPs attude towards pax, and hope that he/she will be the lead FA going forward.
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Old Sep 15, 10, 2:28 am   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LukeSkywaiter View Post
My last two trips have been with lead FAs who decided to make the final approach announcement - and enforce it - on their own terms, as opposed to waiting for the "double ding" and the illumination of the sterile cockpit light. Both FAs did so without any instruction from the captain to sit down early because of turbulence, and both - after I politely reminded them we were only on initial - told me, "I do final early." What's ironic is that the most recent one had the nerve to go on and on about how the company is "auditing" FAs on items such as cell phone usage, jumpseat occupancy, etc, and how we all needed to watch our asses, yet had no problem making up her own final approach procedures.

I have *zero* tolerance for this bullspit, and refuse to participate (I simply kept on as I were, and let them do the cabin check on their own. When the real final came, I then did mine). As much as I would love to write them up for this, it's extremely taboo, and I refuse to write any FA up for anything less than something that jeopardizes the safety of the crew/pax.

There must have been a good reason they did this, and I'm sorry they did not fill you in on that reason. After all, CO has the most professional men and women in the industry, so there is no way they would behave in this manner unless there were a valid reason.
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Old Sep 15, 10, 4:54 am   #6
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CO has the most professional men and women in the industry,
+1.

Actually this may be to line up with UA's newest procedures. At UA sterile cockpit is at 18,000 feet.

Last edited by Xyzzy; Sep 15, 10 at 8:02 am. Reason: Fixed UBB code
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Old Sep 15, 10, 5:02 am   #7
 
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OP is inflight crew. If this were done to be in compliance, they would have been briefed.

I've heard a few choice favourites, including

"please ensure that all items you brought onboard have been returned to your bags and are not in your hands or the seatback pocket"...I didn't appreciate having an FA tell me I had to put away a report that I was reading.

"all food and drinks, whether from the inflight service or brought onboard with you, must be thrown away as we come through the aisles"

"if you are sitting on a cushion or blanket, please remove it and place it on the floor or the seat next to you. This is for safety reasons to ensure that the seats can properly support you." (midweek TATL last year which was barely half-full)
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Old Sep 15, 10, 5:07 am   #8
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by channa View Post
There must have been a good reason they did this, and I'm sorry they did not fill you in on that reason. After all, CO has the most professional men and women in the industry, so there is no way they would behave in this manner unless there were a valid reason.
Channa.

You crack me up. It turns out you and I see eye to eye on all this stuff. One day, I hope our paths cross and we can have a drink and laugh about all this nonsense.

On a more serious note, if I had a dollar for every time I've seen CO personnel make up their own rules on the fly, I would be a millionaire (exaggeration deliberate). I've seen it regarding upgrades, seating, service order, seatbelt enforcement on kids, etc, etc. They seem to be the FAs with the most latitude in the industry. If I fly AA, LH, AF or BA, there seems to be more consistency and discipline. That said, CO has generally very good FAs relative to the other major US airlines.
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Old Sep 15, 10, 5:18 am   #9
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by channa View Post
There must have been a good reason they did this, and I'm sorry they did not fill you in on that reason. After all, CO has the most professional men and women in the industry, so there is no way they would behave in this manner unless there were a valid reason.
LukeSkywaiter is reaching out to the FT group asking for help.

channa, your response is predictable but not helping.
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Old Sep 15, 10, 6:12 am   #10
 
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On DEN to IAH yesterday the Captain made the "turning off the seatbelt sign" announcement and a couple minutes later the FA made her announcement including the "when the Captain turns off the seat-belt sign" part as if she hadn't heard his announcement. Seemed kind of funny at the time and once is an error, not a trend.

But on the same flight there were new edicts that I've not seen before - telling PAX to "turn off your Bose noise-cancelling headphones" - on both takeoff and landing, and well before final approach in the case of landing.

Reminded me of the militant AA approach to cell phones in contrast to the kinder, gentler CO style.

I'd agree that it seems there's some new pressure on the cabin crew and they're going above and beyond the call of duty. But it'll prove annoying if this is the "New Uptight CO FA" of the future.
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Old Sep 15, 10, 6:30 am   #11
 
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Originally Posted by controller1 View Post
LukeSkywaiter is reaching out to the FT group asking for help.

channa, your response is predictable but not helping.
Agree 100% on both points.
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Old Sep 15, 10, 6:34 am   #12
 
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Several times over the years on LAX-IAH flights I've heard the final approach announcement made while we were in the vicinity of SAT (which I verified by looking out the window).

This did seem a bit early to me.....but I went ahead and ordered a cocktail anyway.
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Old Sep 15, 10, 7:41 am   #13
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by channa View Post
CO has the most professional men and women in the industry, QUOTE]

+1.

Actually this may be to line up with UA's newest procedures. At UA sterile cockpit is at 18,000 feet.
It looks like UA is going to 10k feet for sterile cockpit starting today. See posts in the 70s and later here:

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/unite...cedures-2.html

Don't know how this relates to CO right now, but alignment will likely be coming.
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Old Sep 15, 10, 7:52 am   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LukeSkywaiter View Post
My last two trips have been with lead FAs who decided to make the final approach announcement - and enforce it - on their own terms, as opposed to waiting for the "double ding" and the illumination of the sterile cockpit light.
This is the most common thing I encounter. If I'm told to stop work on my laptop or turn off my iPod above 10k, when there's no turbulence, I politely say that I'm wrapping stuff up and will have everything off at 10,000. More often than not they let it go at that because they have a sense that I know the rules, am observant, and am committing to abide by the rules.

Other times I get serious push-back and am told that I have to listen to them / am interfering / etc. I always comply because it's not worth anyone's time/trouble/or effort to fight over doing an extra five minutes of work.

There's other odd-ball ones that happen from time to time but they are generally just one-offs. 30 minute no standing rule into DCA (). COCO pass riders taking 1B and then telling me it's "open seating" when it's obviously not ().

Although, to be fair, I've had more "rogue" rules set-forth by UA GA's (not saying that to spite anyone, I'm being serious).
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Old Sep 15, 10, 8:24 am   #15
 
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I had a FA on one of the Delta regionals that was absolutely adamant that nothing other than the SkyMall and inflight magazine could be in the seat-back pocket. This was a little Barbie Jet, but I've never experienced that on COEx or United's RJs.
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