HeadInTheClouds

With the new KL lounge though, AMS is much better than the LH lounges at MUC in terms of space and crowding. That is the only real downside of MUC to me.

Of note - I have gotten stuck in a couple ugly MUC Schengen>non-Schengen immigration queues in the last year (i.e. 30 min+). But those have been in the evening connecting on to LH flights to Asia.

But on balance the airport itself is very nice, and walks are much less than @ AMS. Any way you slice it, these are the top two connecting airports in Europe for sure.

iahphx

Hooray! Old-timers will remember that Munich was one of CO's first European destinations. I guess it was inevitable that they would return -- especially with the Lufthansa alliance -- but it sure took awhile.

This is a great flight on so many levels. Great airport: nice and modern, good for connections, great on-site beer garden (outside of security). Munich is a great city to visit, and Bavaria is one of my favorite destinations in the world. And MUC has good driving access to many great Eastern European destinations that you really should visit, and are still quite affordable -- but hard to fly too (and usually expensive to fly to).

I can't think of any European flight I'd prefer they add. My next pick would be Budapest -- which is a much bigger city than anyone thinks -- but I'm guessing it's going to be a loooong while!

RNE

Interesting. The last time I was in MUC was 1974. Flew on a 747. Woo hoo! My father took me to Bad Kissingen to show me where his family is from. Think the city has changed much since then? I vaguely recall seeing this weird "wall" of vines with water or something trickling down through the thicket. I believe it was some beverage.

Yeah, I might be visiting your country again, Phil. Sorry. Not during Oktoberfest, though, which is the worst time to be anywhere near Deutschland, of course.

Yes, but it's hard to beat AMS as a jump point into the Continent, especially when connecting to westerly cities like LIS and BCN. MUC is 400 miles farther than AMS, and, IMHO, the latter is a more bohemian city than MUC will ever be. Still, you're quite correct: MUC is better than FRA. So, I applaud CO for that.

featheroleather

German govt wasn't happy that TXL was fuel stopping on a regular basis, thats why its on a 762.

In other news, UAL announced a big 777 order while CAL is getting more 737's. Woo Hoo !

(I know I dont see the big picture, I hear its hidden in Ft Wayne.)

supermasterphil

TXL has a 20 minute express bus, that's not too bad. The new Berlin airport will be worse in terms of getting into downtown but much better than TXL (big peace of cr@p)

Come as often as you want, just keep on spending!

Oktoberfest is great. If you don't appreciate it, just stay away. There are plenty of people (actually about 7 million each year) who enjoy it and quite a few are regulars on this board and always asked for this new flight!


Why would you connect to LIS or BCN through MUC out of EWR? Just take the CO nonstop, unless of course you know about the great LH service and go for the miles .

I don't think Munich has any desire to be a bohemian city and I am happy if it stays that way. AMS has it's charm and so has MUC. It's not worse, it's not better, it's just different! Easy sex and drugs are of course always attractive to most citizens of a country where prudishness is the average.

supermasterphil

Why would German government care? Besides the unhappy customers...?

featheroleather

CAL overpromised non-stop service. TXL was at the limit for the 757 and was being weight restricted. German govt said put up or shut up. We switched to 762.

Same thing when we used to fly to SCL(Santiago Chile). Started out as DC-10non-stop EWR-SCL, then we used to divert so much to LIM IIRC and switched it to 757 service. Bye Bye SCL. Probably not making as much dinero factored in that decision.

theblakefish

^^^^^^^^^

yeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!

^^^^^^^^^

EWR764

Enroute diversions for fuel cost a fortune, both in dollars and customer satisfaction, especially because DL runs their 763ER across town to JFK and only needs to make a stop in the most extreme of circumstances. In the winter, when a number of frequencies to Europe don't operate (see FCO from 14x/week to 4x/week), more 767s are available to replace 757 flying to cities like TXL and BCN. Come the summer schedule, they'll both be 757s again, making occasional fuel stops as necessary.

I doubt Merkel implored Continental to switch to a 767... we aren't talking about the Nigerian government here!

Flyer IAH

What about potential LH expansion? IAH-MUC would be a nice addition to the daily IAH-FRA, which could be downgraded from 744 to 343/346 with the new IAH-FRA on CO.

channa

[QUOTE=EWR764;12848038]Enroute diversions for fuel cost a fortune, both in dollars and customer satisfaction, especially because DL runs their 763ER across town to JFK and only needs to make a stop in the most extreme of circumstances. In the winter, when a number of frequencies to Europe don't operate (see FCO from 14x/week to 4x/week), more 767s are available to replace 757 flying to cities like TXL and BCN. Come the summer schedule, they'll both be 757s again, making occasional fuel stops as necessary.

I doubt Merkel implored%

supermasterphil

Would love it, I am sure that if LH sees any chance that it'd work, they do it.
There were rumors on FT before that CO was pretty much against LH doing IAH out of MUC but of course that was before Star.

[QUOTE=channa;12848182]Seems like a logical explanation, thanks ^

Merkel is officially the chancellor in Germany but if you read the job description, her real job is actually to look out for airline customers and make sure they get the real deal out of Germany

I am sure Obama is her US counterpart in that regard

featheroleather

[QUOTE=EWR764;12848038] Predicting what equipment CO will use 6 months from now is as pointless as predicting where the lie flat 777 is going tommorow.


BTW, TXL was a 762 this past summer.

doobierw

Our staffing for next year, came out with absolutely zero new staffing for the 777 fleet. One would think that with 2 new aircraft coming online they would have needed to staff an additional 10% into that fleet (20 a/c going to 22). But that wasn't the case, so we are led to believe that even with the two new aircraft, the level of 777 flying will remain the same (while a/c are routed through HKG for the lie flat mod and maint rework).

I don't know of ANY United 777 order. Referencing the Boeing website shows that UAL does not have a single a/c on order (http://active.boeing.com/commercial/...tTimeout=20000)

Part of the 'big picture' is that CAL was offered 8 777s to fill the gap during our 787 delivery delay. We were slated to be getting 2 787s in '11, but that has been moved up now to 6. (Will believe it when I see it, but that is apparently the plan.) As the 787 delivery schedule gets firmed up, you'll probably see us cancelling the remaining 777s we have coming....still four after these next two IIRC.

Additionally, CAL apparently has an agreement in place with Boeing, where each of our 737 delivery slots can be transferred directly into a 787 delivery slot. When you see us ordering additional 737s, there is a strong possibility we are moving into position for more 787s. Our recent cancellation of 777s, and announcement of additional 737s was apparently part one of a two part move where 777s were cancelled in anticipation of additional 787 deliveries in '11, AND an additional move which will take some 737 delivery slots and convert those into 787s.

TXL and BCN are do'able in the non-winter months. It was problematic for us anytime we had headwinds over 100 knots over the N. Atlantic in the winter months. MUC would be do'able with a 757 in non-winter. We've done ZRH, TXL, FRA, MXP with it at various points (subs and what not), so it's an option depending on how the loads play out.

DRW

ijgordon

They can turn a 762 in 90 minutes?

How many inbound connections are there to MUC that can make the 9:20am departure of the CO flight?!?