"If I ran FlyerTalk..."
Jul 26, 2016, 3:37 pm
#166
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 3,526
Oh, where do I begin?
1. The clickbait and spam articles on the front page need to go. If a first time visitor to the site clicked on any of those articles, they'd probably have a negative impression of the site as the garbage is not welcoming to newbies.
2. The mobile site is terrible! Please either fix or remove it!
3. There should be more leeway in some of the heavy handed moderating done on some of the boards. Not that this is a deal-breaking problem, but sometimes there should be a little room for discussion of fringe details. This is not a complaint about moderators, as they are just doing their jobs, but instead is a suggestion for FT rules to allow for more wandering.
Here's a hypothetical example:
Topic: New Bus Service Comes to City A!
OP: A new bus service to City A has been announced! I can't wait to try it! It starts tomorrow!
FT 1: I rode it today, it was great!
FT 2: I rode it today as well, the ride quality was terrible, it was very bumpy.
FT 3: Maybe the tires weren't inflated properly
MOD 1: Reminder: This topic is about the bus service. Discussion about tires belong in [this thread]
FT 4: I too had an unpleasant ride due to the bumpiness
MOD 2: Folks, this thread is about the bus service, not the ride quality, please stay on topic. Feel free to start your own thread about the ride quality.
Of course, this is severely exaggerated, but this type of heavy handed moderation that disappoints me, and I can't be the only one. When this happens, I feel that people may either feel less inclined to contribute, or will go and make a new thread, clogging up the forums with a separate thread for every little detail. This doesn't occur in every forum though, and some of them actually do allow fringe discussions on the same thread.
1. The clickbait and spam articles on the front page need to go. If a first time visitor to the site clicked on any of those articles, they'd probably have a negative impression of the site as the garbage is not welcoming to newbies.
2. The mobile site is terrible! Please either fix or remove it!
3. There should be more leeway in some of the heavy handed moderating done on some of the boards. Not that this is a deal-breaking problem, but sometimes there should be a little room for discussion of fringe details. This is not a complaint about moderators, as they are just doing their jobs, but instead is a suggestion for FT rules to allow for more wandering.
Here's a hypothetical example:
Topic: New Bus Service Comes to City A!
OP: A new bus service to City A has been announced! I can't wait to try it! It starts tomorrow!
FT 1: I rode it today, it was great!
FT 2: I rode it today as well, the ride quality was terrible, it was very bumpy.
FT 3: Maybe the tires weren't inflated properly
MOD 1: Reminder: This topic is about the bus service. Discussion about tires belong in [this thread]
FT 4: I too had an unpleasant ride due to the bumpiness
MOD 2: Folks, this thread is about the bus service, not the ride quality, please stay on topic. Feel free to start your own thread about the ride quality.
Of course, this is severely exaggerated, but this type of heavy handed moderation that disappoints me, and I can't be the only one. When this happens, I feel that people may either feel less inclined to contribute, or will go and make a new thread, clogging up the forums with a separate thread for every little detail. This doesn't occur in every forum though, and some of them actually do allow fringe discussions on the same thread.
I do tend to wonder if voicing complaints here will be like voicing complaints to the TSA, nothing comes of it.
Jul 26, 2016, 3:43 pm
#167
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: SNA
Programs: AA gold, DL Gold, HHonors Diamond, Hyatt Explorist, IHG Plat
Posts: 446
Oh, where do I begin?
1. The clickbait and spam articles on the front page need to go. If a first time visitor to the site clicked on any of those articles, they'd probably have a negative impression of the site as the garbage is not welcoming to newbies.
2. The mobile site is terrible! Please either fix or remove it!
3. There should be more leeway in some of the heavy handed moderating done on some of the boards. Not that this is a deal-breaking problem, but sometimes there should be a little room for discussion of fringe details. This is not a complaint about moderators, as they are just doing their jobs, but instead is a suggestion for FT rules to allow for more wandering.
Here's a hypothetical example:
Topic: New Bus Service Comes to City A!
OP: A new bus service to City A has been announced! I can't wait to try it! It starts tomorrow!
FT 1: I rode it today, it was great!
FT 2: I rode it today as well, the ride quality was terrible, it was very bumpy.
FT 3: Maybe the tires weren't inflated properly
MOD 1: Reminder: This topic is about the bus service. Discussion about tires belong in [this thread]
FT 4: I too had an unpleasant ride due to the bumpiness
MOD 2: Folks, this thread is about the bus service, not the ride quality, please stay on topic. Feel free to start your own thread about the ride quality.
Of course, this is severely exaggerated, but this type of heavy handed moderation that disappoints me, and I can't be the only one. When this happens, I feel that people may either feel less inclined to contribute, or will go and make a new thread, clogging up the forums with a separate thread for every little detail. This doesn't occur in every forum though, and some of them actually do allow fringe discussions on the same thread.
1. The clickbait and spam articles on the front page need to go. If a first time visitor to the site clicked on any of those articles, they'd probably have a negative impression of the site as the garbage is not welcoming to newbies.
2. The mobile site is terrible! Please either fix or remove it!
3. There should be more leeway in some of the heavy handed moderating done on some of the boards. Not that this is a deal-breaking problem, but sometimes there should be a little room for discussion of fringe details. This is not a complaint about moderators, as they are just doing their jobs, but instead is a suggestion for FT rules to allow for more wandering.
Here's a hypothetical example:
Topic: New Bus Service Comes to City A!
OP: A new bus service to City A has been announced! I can't wait to try it! It starts tomorrow!
FT 1: I rode it today, it was great!
FT 2: I rode it today as well, the ride quality was terrible, it was very bumpy.
FT 3: Maybe the tires weren't inflated properly
MOD 1: Reminder: This topic is about the bus service. Discussion about tires belong in [this thread]
FT 4: I too had an unpleasant ride due to the bumpiness
MOD 2: Folks, this thread is about the bus service, not the ride quality, please stay on topic. Feel free to start your own thread about the ride quality.
Of course, this is severely exaggerated, but this type of heavy handed moderation that disappoints me, and I can't be the only one. When this happens, I feel that people may either feel less inclined to contribute, or will go and make a new thread, clogging up the forums with a separate thread for every little detail. This doesn't occur in every forum though, and some of them actually do allow fringe discussions on the same thread.
Jul 26, 2016, 3:54 pm
#168
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Miami, FL
Programs: UA 1MM, AA Plat, Marriott LT Titanium, Hyatt Glob, IHG ♢ Amb, Hilton ♢, Hertz Pres
Posts: 6,016
Jul 26, 2016, 4:03 pm
#169
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 8,135
All of these complaints & criticisms about mods & moderation--including my own--suggest an idea for improving FT: provide an obvious, straightforward mechanism for registering such concerns with FT mgmt. Right now, I suspect most FTers have no idea that the Community Director exists, let alone how to convey complaints to her.
Jul 26, 2016, 4:47 pm
#170
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: SYD
Programs: QF WP/LTG | UA P
Posts: 13,530
To move to a lighter side....
If I ran Flyertalk, I'd arrange for airlines to serve free beer to all FTers but only on Fridays.
If I ran Flyertalk, I'd arrange for airlines to serve free beer to all FTers but only on Fridays.
Jul 26, 2016, 4:57 pm
#171
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Fort Worth TX
Programs: Earned status with AA, DL, SPG, HH, Hyatt, Marriott, Seabourn, NCL, National, Hertz...I miss my bed!
Posts: 10,927
And in other parts of the world as well though not as often as they do in and around Chicago.
I'm sure more regular gatherings are organised elsewhere on the Internet but many DOs are still organised on FT as you will see in this thread.
Some people may have moved on but the kind of friendship you describe still exists among FTers. In fact almost all my friends I'm regularly in touch via Facebook and WhatsApp chat are people I have met through FlyerTalk and FT DOs.
I'm sure more regular gatherings are organised elsewhere on the Internet but many DOs are still organised on FT as you will see in this thread.
Some people may have moved on but the kind of friendship you describe still exists among FTers. In fact almost all my friends I'm regularly in touch via Facebook and WhatsApp chat are people I have met through FlyerTalk and FT DOs.
My interest in attending DOs dropped considerably when many of them became "mega-sized" and everything had to revolve around the "what am I getting out of this" factor (what is the airline doing for me, what seminar am I getting to attend, etc.)
I liked the days when we all hopped on a plane just to go drink beer together. Any talk about mileage programs was an after thought, not the primary objective. Any special airline or hotel experience was because we created it for ourselves (and not always sanctioned... like the aborted QF Lounge Takeover of 2005... or a certain "open bar" incident at a London hotel that was definitely not okay with that hotel... or getting security called on us after several people ended up half-dressed in a swimming pool in Singapore at 3 am).
Jul 26, 2016, 5:40 pm
#172
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 2008
Location: CHA, MAN;
Programs: Delta DM 1 MM; Hz PC
Posts: 11,169
Jul 26, 2016, 7:05 pm
#173
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Verdi, NV, SFO & Olympic (aka Squaw )Valley.
Programs: Ikon Pass Full + AS Gold + Marriott Titanium + Hilton Gold. Recovering UA Plat. LT lounge AA+DL+UA
Posts: 3,823
As a 10 year veteran of FlyerTalk...
a)The engineer in me: Many of us know that this community is based around phpBB (or a derivative) and it would be great if real engineering effort was spent to build something that reflects the 2010s instead of the late 1990s. Not just a mobile app, but a pivot that really fosters community.
b) The liberal arts grad in me: FT leadership should read Randy Farmer's book "Building Web Reputation Systems" (can't share a link without violating TOS; dm if you need one.) Volunteer mods deserve their halos, especially the amazing ones here, but again see point a.
c) The MBA in me thinks that FT misses tremendous revenue (and press) by not making it easier for us to share and buy travel deals. I miss the "mileage run" forums of ~5+ years ago, most of us have elsewhere we get deals now, and also feel the "coupon connection" service could use some sort of escrow.
d) The pragmatist in me thinks that older internet communities tend to have retention issues. For real I'm much less engaged than 12, 24, 36, etc months ago. This ultimately is the Yahoo conundrum: innovate and customers leave. Don't innovate and more customer leave.
a)The engineer in me: Many of us know that this community is based around phpBB (or a derivative) and it would be great if real engineering effort was spent to build something that reflects the 2010s instead of the late 1990s. Not just a mobile app, but a pivot that really fosters community.
b) The liberal arts grad in me: FT leadership should read Randy Farmer's book "Building Web Reputation Systems" (can't share a link without violating TOS; dm if you need one.) Volunteer mods deserve their halos, especially the amazing ones here, but again see point a.
c) The MBA in me thinks that FT misses tremendous revenue (and press) by not making it easier for us to share and buy travel deals. I miss the "mileage run" forums of ~5+ years ago, most of us have elsewhere we get deals now, and also feel the "coupon connection" service could use some sort of escrow.
d) The pragmatist in me thinks that older internet communities tend to have retention issues. For real I'm much less engaged than 12, 24, 36, etc months ago. This ultimately is the Yahoo conundrum: innovate and customers leave. Don't innovate and more customer leave.
Jul 26, 2016, 10:29 pm
#174
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Mountain View, CA (near SJC and SFO)
Programs: Hilton Gold, Marriott Gold, IHG Platinum, and no status whatsoever on the airlines (!)
Posts: 468
Encourage and facilitate more sharing of structured info.
Related: more highly emphasize wikis, encourage their creation and updating and so on.
There's such an amazing wealth of info shared in this community and an impressive generosity in sharing it, but too often the meat is terribly buried under 42 pages of chit chat, arguments, repeated questions (since, who has time to read or even skim 42 pages?!).
On one hand, the status quo rewards those who have lots of free time or who are obsessed flyertalkers. But on the other hand, it's daunting and discouraging to both new Flyertalkers and those who have a busy life outside of this great community.
Related: more highly emphasize wikis, encourage their creation and updating and so on.
There's such an amazing wealth of info shared in this community and an impressive generosity in sharing it, but too often the meat is terribly buried under 42 pages of chit chat, arguments, repeated questions (since, who has time to read or even skim 42 pages?!).
On one hand, the status quo rewards those who have lots of free time or who are obsessed flyertalkers. But on the other hand, it's daunting and discouraging to both new Flyertalkers and those who have a busy life outside of this great community.
Jul 27, 2016, 2:53 am
#175
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Luxembourg/Milan
Programs: Sky Team Elite Plus, Lufthansa Senator, BA Sliver, Hilton Diamond VIP, IHG GOLD, Marriot Gold
Posts: 26
There may be a way to do this so apologies if the post is redundant. I find the amount of info overwhelming and most of it irrelevant to me - take me way too long to wade through stuff to get what interests me and therefore I do not use the site much - same with the newsletter - if there was a way to personalise what you saw it would be great - most times I open it - see several pages of tiny writing and delete it.........
Jul 27, 2016, 3:35 am
#176
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Either at the shooting range or anywhere good beer can be found...
Posts: 51,030
All of these complaints & criticisms about mods & moderation--including my own--suggest an idea for improving FT: provide an obvious, straightforward mechanism for registering such concerns with FT mgmt. Right now, I suspect most FTers have no idea that the Community Director exists, let alone how to convey complaints to her.
Jul 27, 2016, 5:54 am
#177
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 71
The Manufactured Spend section needs to be private. The amount of sensitive information posted on the open forum amazes me. Make access to it something you have to earn, similar to other points/miles forums.
Jul 27, 2016, 7:13 am
#178
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Thanks for the Memories !!!
Posts: 10,656
It must be said that this website is owned in its entirety by KKR. KKR via its ownership of Internet Brands has just purchased Fodor's. If you want to see the (present) future, it is that website.
Problem: Page views(aka participation) are down. This is probably due to the creaking interface and also due to the "noise" and to an extent the moderation of the website.
Problem: vBulletin! It was obsolete at the turn of the century. IB still owns vBulletin you would think that they would upgrade to the latest version ? Apparently not ! Before embarking on an app, fix the main web site first, and do it quickly, as mobile is where it is at. For reference see what you competitors at On Demand Media are doing with their properties !
Facade of Community: The Community has changed, in most cases it only exists in name. The social aspect of this site for the most part no longer exists, or at least not like it did, and therein lies a huge problem.
Moderation: The moderation corps needs a re-vamp. Too many have been in their positions for too long(and that was a decade ago). Time to let a new generation take over. If you are going to continue on with this type of moderation then you should seriously consider paying them ! Would rather have a few great professionals, who are remunerated for their work, than a hundred volunteers running amok, deleting and moving threads, and generally making the site unreadable. There needs a to be thorough reflection about this.
Talkboard: Time to say goodbye, it finished serving its purpose long ago !
Too many fora: There are too many fora ! Time for a thorough house cleaning. It wouldn't take a lot to choose which ones to delist.
Too many ads : I firmly believe this is causing you to lose eyeballs, ranking, and $$$. The ads as the only revenue stream model is going the way of the dodo as we all can turn them off ! Time to think of a new model/way to monetize your site. By the way, you are still serving those Chinese and Russian dating ads(soft porn). You are better than this !
Problem: Page views(aka participation) are down. This is probably due to the creaking interface and also due to the "noise" and to an extent the moderation of the website.
Problem: vBulletin! It was obsolete at the turn of the century. IB still owns vBulletin you would think that they would upgrade to the latest version ? Apparently not ! Before embarking on an app, fix the main web site first, and do it quickly, as mobile is where it is at. For reference see what you competitors at On Demand Media are doing with their properties !
Facade of Community: The Community has changed, in most cases it only exists in name. The social aspect of this site for the most part no longer exists, or at least not like it did, and therein lies a huge problem.
Moderation: The moderation corps needs a re-vamp. Too many have been in their positions for too long(and that was a decade ago). Time to let a new generation take over. If you are going to continue on with this type of moderation then you should seriously consider paying them ! Would rather have a few great professionals, who are remunerated for their work, than a hundred volunteers running amok, deleting and moving threads, and generally making the site unreadable. There needs a to be thorough reflection about this.
Talkboard: Time to say goodbye, it finished serving its purpose long ago !
Too many fora: There are too many fora ! Time for a thorough house cleaning. It wouldn't take a lot to choose which ones to delist.
Too many ads : I firmly believe this is causing you to lose eyeballs, ranking, and $$$. The ads as the only revenue stream model is going the way of the dodo as we all can turn them off ! Time to think of a new model/way to monetize your site. By the way, you are still serving those Chinese and Russian dating ads(soft porn). You are better than this !
Jul 27, 2016, 9:54 am
#179
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 1
changes needed
1) upgrade technology format for thread comments
2) less click bait--tell more about the story in a summary
3) increase font size and only dark font (no gray) for easier readability
2) less click bait--tell more about the story in a summary
3) increase font size and only dark font (no gray) for easier readability
Jul 27, 2016, 10:13 am
#180
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Argentina
Posts: 40,200
I've been inhabiting a forum for bikers recently. It's been interesting to see the difference in content and moderation in that forum compared to FT. The participation of the Mods on the bikers forum was more integrated compared to FT.