Citi AA $750 for Bonus Miles
Feb 1, 2008, 11:00 am
#16
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Washington, D.C.
Programs: AA PLT (MM), UA 1K, Marriott Ti, IHG Diamond
Posts: 929
Amen Brother!!! I hate gift cards and everyone who knows me knows this and doesn't dare insult me by getting me any for Christmas... I think they are a spit in the face to anyone with half a brain...
That being said, I spent about $5000 at giftcertificates.com this christmas on AA gift cards for myself and family because I already had that spending planned and ended up getting 5 miles/dollar plus approx 18% off... It was the 18% off that sealed the deal for me... If a gift card is sold at a greater than 10% discount, I will usually buy it if I know I will be using it in the immediate future...
That being said, I spent about $5000 at giftcertificates.com this christmas on AA gift cards for myself and family because I already had that spending planned and ended up getting 5 miles/dollar plus approx 18% off... It was the 18% off that sealed the deal for me... If a gift card is sold at a greater than 10% discount, I will usually buy it if I know I will be using it in the immediate future...
You and I are completely different in our approach to this stuff. For me the ratio makes a big different because there is opportunity cost involved in using it. When I use this card I am not using another card which pays me 5% in cash, so the difference between $750 and $250 in spending on this card is $25 in cash to me. Also, the quicker I hit the $ threshold the quicker I can move onto my next miles card to do it again. You are embracing the new card as a financial vehicle. I am embracing it as a way to get some miles. Period.
<soapbox>
As far as gift cards go, I think they call them gift cards because they are such a gift to the retailer or the bank that issues them. They have got to be the biggest legal scam on the planet. So, let's see. How about I give you some money to hold onto for me. You give me back a piece of worthless plastic and in many cases charge me for it. While I hold that plastic in the back of my drawer, how about you go off and use my money to invest or expand your operations, all without paying me for the use of my funds. Oh, and while you are at it, how about if you service charge me every month that I have a value on the card. Oh! And don't forget to make the card expire after while so you can keep the cash I gave you and provide no goods or services for it--even though the cash I gave you never expires! If I should happen to eventually use the card, keep in mind that I will most likely not use exactly the amount on the card and that human nature is to want to use up the value, so I will probably spend more in your store than I would have anyway, spending beyond the value of the card. These cards are such a win-win for the corporation a total lose-lose for the consumer. They give the consumer no more spending power or any advantage of cash and there is risk and cost built into them.
I prefer the universal gift certificate--cash. No expiration date, no service charges, not locked into one retailer. The only risk is getting mugged--but that's the same with a gift card.
</soapbox>
<soapbox>
As far as gift cards go, I think they call them gift cards because they are such a gift to the retailer or the bank that issues them. They have got to be the biggest legal scam on the planet. So, let's see. How about I give you some money to hold onto for me. You give me back a piece of worthless plastic and in many cases charge me for it. While I hold that plastic in the back of my drawer, how about you go off and use my money to invest or expand your operations, all without paying me for the use of my funds. Oh, and while you are at it, how about if you service charge me every month that I have a value on the card. Oh! And don't forget to make the card expire after while so you can keep the cash I gave you and provide no goods or services for it--even though the cash I gave you never expires! If I should happen to eventually use the card, keep in mind that I will most likely not use exactly the amount on the card and that human nature is to want to use up the value, so I will probably spend more in your store than I would have anyway, spending beyond the value of the card. These cards are such a win-win for the corporation a total lose-lose for the consumer. They give the consumer no more spending power or any advantage of cash and there is risk and cost built into them.
I prefer the universal gift certificate--cash. No expiration date, no service charges, not locked into one retailer. The only risk is getting mugged--but that's the same with a gift card.
</soapbox>
Feb 1, 2008, 11:38 am
#17
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: BOS, MHT
Programs: AA ltg, B6, DL, UA, AS, SPG/Marriott Plt, HH, Hyatt
Posts: 10,052
My biggest decision is due to the 3 apps in 60 days. During the holidays I used the $750 cards since I knew I could hit $750 on each of them in 60 days and get 25k each. However, now that things have slowed down I get the $250 cards so I can hit all three of them in the 60 day period. Depending at the 30 day point, I will reconsider the 3rd $250 for a $750 if I already blew through the 2 $250 cards. I like the 25k in miles, just takes a bit more planning to maximize the miles.
Jim
Jim
You and I are completely different in our approach to this stuff. For me the ratio makes a big different because there is opportunity cost involved in using it. When I use this card I am not using another card which pays me 5% in cash, so the difference between $750 and $250 in spending on this card is $25 in cash to me. Also, the quicker I hit the $ threshold the quicker I can move onto my next miles card to do it again. You are embracing the new card as a financial vehicle. I am embracing it as a way to get some miles. Period.
<soapbox>
As far as gift cards go, I think they call them gift cards because they are such a gift to the retailer or the bank that issues them. They have got to be the biggest legal scam on the planet. So, let's see. How about I give you some money to hold onto for me. You give me back a piece of worthless plastic and in many cases charge me for it. While I hold that plastic in the back of my drawer, how about you go off and use my money to invest or expand your operations, all without paying me for the use of my funds. Oh, and while you are at it, how about if you service charge me every month that I have a value on the card. Oh! And don't forget to make the card expire after while so you can keep the cash I gave you and provide no goods or services for it--even though the cash I gave you never expires! If I should happen to eventually use the card, keep in mind that I will most likely not use exactly the amount on the card and that human nature is to want to use up the value, so I will probably spend more in your store than I would have anyway, spending beyond the value of the card. These cards are such a win-win for the corporation a total lose-lose for the consumer. They give the consumer no more spending power or any advantage of cash and there is risk and cost built into them.
I prefer the universal gift certificate--cash. No expiration date, no service charges, not locked into one retailer. The only risk is getting mugged--but that's the same with a gift card.
</soapbox>
<soapbox>
As far as gift cards go, I think they call them gift cards because they are such a gift to the retailer or the bank that issues them. They have got to be the biggest legal scam on the planet. So, let's see. How about I give you some money to hold onto for me. You give me back a piece of worthless plastic and in many cases charge me for it. While I hold that plastic in the back of my drawer, how about you go off and use my money to invest or expand your operations, all without paying me for the use of my funds. Oh, and while you are at it, how about if you service charge me every month that I have a value on the card. Oh! And don't forget to make the card expire after while so you can keep the cash I gave you and provide no goods or services for it--even though the cash I gave you never expires! If I should happen to eventually use the card, keep in mind that I will most likely not use exactly the amount on the card and that human nature is to want to use up the value, so I will probably spend more in your store than I would have anyway, spending beyond the value of the card. These cards are such a win-win for the corporation a total lose-lose for the consumer. They give the consumer no more spending power or any advantage of cash and there is risk and cost built into them.
I prefer the universal gift certificate--cash. No expiration date, no service charges, not locked into one retailer. The only risk is getting mugged--but that's the same with a gift card.
</soapbox>
you also make a bunch of valid points. I was thinking of things I do, which is to get said Home depot cards and pretty much redeem them in stores every week (so in that sense, it's like cash and not gonna get lost in my car for 6 months or something). I see what you mean about not having to use the citi card to get up to 750 because you could use some other card, but in my experience, the best airline cards out there are American Airlines and AMEX SPG. the reasons are in other threads, but again, I will admit: lots of what I am saying above is just because it is from my own viewpoint. There are more than one viewpoints.
Feb 1, 2008, 5:45 pm
#18
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: BOS, MHT
Programs: AA ltg, B6, DL, UA, AS, SPG/Marriott Plt, HH, Hyatt
Posts: 10,052
You and I are completely different in our approach to this stuff. For me the ratio makes a big different because there is opportunity cost involved in using it. When I use this card I am not using another card which pays me 5% in cash, so the difference between $750 and $250 in spending on this card is $25 in cash to me. Also, the quicker I hit the $ threshold the quicker I can move onto my next miles card to do it again. You are embracing the new card as a financial vehicle. I am embracing it as a way to get some miles. Period.
<soapbox>
As far as gift cards go, I think they call them gift cards because they are such a gift to the retailer or the bank that issues them. They have got to be the biggest legal scam on the planet. So, let's see. How about I give you some money to hold onto for me. You give me back a piece of worthless plastic and in many cases charge me for it. While I hold that plastic in the back of my drawer, how about you go off and use my money to invest or expand your operations, all without paying me for the use of my funds. Oh, and while you are at it, how about if you service charge me every month that I have a value on the card. Oh! And don't forget to make the card expire after while so you can keep the cash I gave you and provide no goods or services for it--even though the cash I gave you never expires! If I should happen to eventually use the card, keep in mind that I will most likely not use exactly the amount on the card and that human nature is to want to use up the value, so I will probably spend more in your store than I would have anyway, spending beyond the value of the card. These cards are such a win-win for the corporation a total lose-lose for the consumer. They give the consumer no more spending power or any advantage of cash and there is risk and cost built into them.
I prefer the universal gift certificate--cash. No expiration date, no service charges, not locked into one retailer. The only risk is getting mugged--but that's the same with a gift card.
</soapbox>
<soapbox>
As far as gift cards go, I think they call them gift cards because they are such a gift to the retailer or the bank that issues them. They have got to be the biggest legal scam on the planet. So, let's see. How about I give you some money to hold onto for me. You give me back a piece of worthless plastic and in many cases charge me for it. While I hold that plastic in the back of my drawer, how about you go off and use my money to invest or expand your operations, all without paying me for the use of my funds. Oh, and while you are at it, how about if you service charge me every month that I have a value on the card. Oh! And don't forget to make the card expire after while so you can keep the cash I gave you and provide no goods or services for it--even though the cash I gave you never expires! If I should happen to eventually use the card, keep in mind that I will most likely not use exactly the amount on the card and that human nature is to want to use up the value, so I will probably spend more in your store than I would have anyway, spending beyond the value of the card. These cards are such a win-win for the corporation a total lose-lose for the consumer. They give the consumer no more spending power or any advantage of cash and there is risk and cost built into them.
I prefer the universal gift certificate--cash. No expiration date, no service charges, not locked into one retailer. The only risk is getting mugged--but that's the same with a gift card.
</soapbox>
Ya know I actually had to go back and rethink this post. When I type here, please note I am not trying to be cras... I am just pointing out some things I have learned in mile land over the past umpteen years.
So here's some more on the subject broken down by some of your points within your post above. Yes, like I said, it depends on each persons' needs, but here we go:
1) OK, I claimed getting the AA mastercard spend $750 get 25k is better than the AA mastercard spend $250 get 20k and here's why (for the sake of this, I'll call the $750/25k AA deal "my MC" or "my card":
Sure, you can get to the bonus faster with the other card, but you can still do this with mine. Let's say we both JUST wanted to use the card to get the threashold of money spent and grab the bonus miles. There, done. Cancel it and move on once you reach the necessary spending amont. Ok well if that's true, then no, I am NOT using it as a financial vehicle. I too am using it to get miles. Period. I just know I'll spend another $500 pretty quickly and this will give me that extra 5,000 miles. And again, it's NOT 'buying 5000 miles for $500.' It's different. I know I can spend $750 just as fast as I could spend $250 so that's why this is a no brainer. If we were talking about the difference between, say, spending $250 and $3,000 then that mayu be a different story (but it could still be possible, especially if the mile incentive raises a special eyebrow. When such an offer exists please let me know!
) Anyway, you said--and this is very true--if you spend time on using that card to spend the $500 on my MC, then you arent getting a cash back on some other card you would have been using instead.
Ok yeah, but IS the $25 cash back you get actually BETTER for you than 5,000 AA miles?
I somehow think it is NOT.
Put it this way: My friend booked a trip to Africa for this summer using 75,000 AA miles to get there via London. (FYI: traveling to London in summer is harder to get with award miles and very expensive if you paid for the flight outright) 75,000 miles. Ok, well, that's 5,000 miles x 15. You said if you spent your money on a cash back card instead of my MC AA deal I liked, you would get say $25. $25x15 is $375.
The ticket on AA and its partners was priced at well over $2,000 Rt economy. That's a LOT more 'cash back' you'd have to get than just $25. That's a lot more than $375. It was $2000. You'd need a TON of cash back deals!
This is why 5,000 miles MAY be worth more than the $25 cash here.
Another way would be to take a look (as a comparison only) at what it costs to BUY 5,000 miles at AA.com. I think it's a bit more than $25.
OR, if you just got an economy ticket somewhere say, BOS-Vail, CO for a luxurious ski trip (granted you would have to book well in advance to snag that award, but it exists and I've done it), you'd be spending a lot more than a couple hundred dollars for the ticket gained from cash back card rebates. Your $25 gained on that cash back card you are using did not give you those extra 5,000 AA miles I got for spending all my money on the AA Mastercard... So your $25= my 5,000 miles again. A 25,000 mile econ std award is 5 x 5,000 miles. $25x 5 is $125. Case and point here: I would argue that NO ticket to VAIL, CO is going to cost $125. So if you got cash back you wont get to fly there that cheaply! In fact the cheapest I have ever seen it in off season is about $350 from where I live in the east cost (BOS).
Even flying on some short regional jet cramped mid-day business trip from nowhere to nowhere is going to run you at least $200 Rt. that's more $25's. But it's still only 25,000 miles!
So, getting 5,000 miles is better than getting $25 if you play the miles game right.
But you said this is about getting miles, period. You meant that you wish to get to that bonus triggering threashold as fast as possible and then rinse, lather and repeat. Ok, I respect that (and currently, citi is like the only major bank that still allows this churn--United's chase visa stopped it last feb) but again, getting to 750 is not THAT far from getting to 250, and if the deal DID suddenly die like the chase visa did for some people who were in mid churn heaven, then wouldnt it have at least been better to have reaped as MANY MILES PER CARD as possible first? Again, it does come down to if you think you can spend $750 quickly and conveniently and for the most gain...
2) and I'm only on #2...
I mentioned home depot gift cards in my earlier scenerio. Ok, in case you or anyone here is confused... these store cards are NOT run the same way those 'gift cards' I think you are talking about. You are possibly thinking of bank gift cards or simon mall gift cards, etc. Yes, those can stink--BUT if you are proactive and read the fine print and do everything the right way, you do NOT lose the money there either! DON'T let them keep that remaining 30cents on each card. DON'T let it expire or run into a fee laiden period because you failed to empty it. DON'T pay for it or pay a fee that makes a miles gain become 'cost prohibitive' (I always loved that phrase
). Gift cards, or GC, as i used to call them, stopped being good in FT land a few years ago when charter one, national city and wachovia visa buxx among others sorta fell out of ease of use. When USAA bank stopped giving out free online or telephone cash advances and when limits and intra bank rules and harsh policy started freezing up funds of people like us who bought tons of them but now had to wait for some no name bank to issue us a check somday so we could pay our credit card back. I used to put the money I cashed out from them into a high-yeild interest savings account for a month, get some miles for the GC purchase AND get a few bucks in ineterst payments too! Oh those were the days... especially when none of them charged ANY fees! (charter one in its beginning) And I think one of the last vestiges of any decent gift card out there was the AMEX traveler's cheque card... after ATM fees and some other costs, you would yeild about 2700 Starwood points for about $30. I figured that a room at the Westin Maui (12,000 points per night) for about 4 of these 'runs' was well worth the $120 in costs! ($30x4) Oh yeah, that room was worth more than $120 per night! It should be remembered that store cards like the Home Depot gift cards DO NOT cost to get shipped to you, they do not expire and they have no fees inside the card or losses if not used, etc. Sure, those silly store-bought AMEX gift cards you see at the supermarket check out register do, and that's a huge rip off, and oh yeah, if you buy a gift card of any kind, you are letting the store have your money early, but at the same time, the gift card gives you freedom to buy whatever you want when you want it in the store!
If you WERE in need of things from stores like home depot, like so many here may be, then this works out! If you were to say, log into an airline web site mall and saw some promo stating you MUST spend $300 THIS WEEK in order to get a 10x bonus deal on home depot purchases, then buying a gift card with them is way better than being forced into buying a new skill saw you really didnt need just to get the miles! My point here is that you can, with a home depot store gift card, fulfil the requirements of the short-term mall promo buy spending what they ask of you in the time frame, but still have the ability to control what you buy with it and when you buy it! And with no shipping costs that that heavy saw would have incurred. Why, you could have long since earned your 3000 miles from that promo but still be carrying around the store gift card to go buy something at home depot when you need it. If you don't lose the thing, it's money already put aside for the purchase you are going to do anyway. Just dont lose it! (don't get hit by a bus, slip on soap, lose your wallet, lose that phone number of your date tonight or lose your Patriots' Play off tickets either! Live life but be in control of it too!)
PS: if you buy at BestBuy.com you can do store pick up and if you buy for your office at Staples, they give free shipping if it's over $50, so those are great ways to do this too--if you get lots of office supplies anyway or are already in the market for that new HD TV
I got to such stores as the ones I keep babbling about--and yes, this post is way long but it has all the crap we need to talk about in it and so if you (plr) end up benefitting from it you cant bust on me there
. I use the airline malls to get miles via both their standard offers on shopping thru them and by taking advantage of promos on those mall sites. So if anything, I am in it for my miles more than anyone, because I even get mad at friends of mine who don't yet know about using the airline malls! I'm like, "Dude, you STILL get to the same store's web site online, but thru the genius of portal marketing, you simply need to do a few extra click to get there via your favorite airline! It's a freakin no brainer, and if you already buy at those stores all the time anyway, why arent you doing it??? It's FREE miles! You just need to play their game!" Some still don't get it. And yeah I can still cancel that AA MC when I reach the $750, and then churn for a new one just like you said. Quickly.
Buying gift cards or no, I say using the airline mall works wonders. It will, if you are say, buying for Christmas or birthdays, certainly give you plenty of ways to spend $750 on a AA Mastercard within a freakin week if you want to. unless you consume nothing, you will probably do this faster than you think.
heck, you could even tell a friend: Dude, that wide screen TV you want at bestbuy is $750 right? Well I'll buy it with my credit card and have them ship it to you if you let me earn the miles. I'll give you dinner or $10 for it! Whadya say, man?" Your friend would say, YEAH! Sure, go ahead!
So he gives you the CASH, and you get 750 miles for making the charge, and whatever the bestbuy airline mall deal is this month... I think it's 2:1 at AA and NWA's malls, so that's another 1500 miles just for buying your buddy some dinner.
Worth it?
well, you could take $25 and buy him a few whoppers instead.
3) universal gift certs or cards.
Ok, these have a cost. that's because they provide convenience. convenience costs money. WHY PAY for a cert like this? It used to be something people here in FT land figured out ways to make many miles from, but right now it costs too much to get what they give. To PAY for a piece of paper? I agree with ya there... what a sham! I don't use those now that the whole system is skewed. Plus they figured us out anyway.
Feb 1, 2008, 10:47 pm
#19
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: LAX
Posts: 650
Feb 1, 2008, 11:33 pm
#20
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: SFO, SJC, OAK, LVK AA Lifetime Plat 2MM, LUV A-List, Hyatt Gold, SPG Lifetime Gold, Commercial Pilot (not employed by airlines)
Posts: 1,531
Ya know I actually had to go back and rethink this post. When I type here, please note I am not trying to be cras... I am just pointing out some things I have learned in mile land over the past umpteen years.
So here's some more on the subject broken down by some of your points within your post above. Yes, like I said, it depends on each persons' needs, but here we go:
1) OK, I claimed getting the AA mastercard spend $750 get 25k is better than the AA mastercard spend $250 get 20k and here's why (for the sake of this, I'll call the $750/25k AA deal "my MC" or "my card":
Sure, you can get to the bonus faster with the other card, but you can still do this with mine. Let's say we both JUST wanted to use the card to get the threashold of money spent and grab the bonus miles. There, done. Cancel it and move on once you reach the necessary spending amont. Ok well if that's true, then no, I am NOT using it as a financial vehicle. I too am using it to get miles. Period. I just know I'll spend another $500 pretty quickly and this will give me that extra 5,000 miles. And again, it's NOT 'buying 5000 miles for $500.' It's different. I know I can spend $750 just as fast as I could spend $250 so that's why this is a no brainer. If we were talking about the difference between, say, spending $250 and $3,000 then that mayu be a different story (but it could still be possible, especially if the mile incentive raises a special eyebrow. When such an offer exists please let me know!)
Anyway, you said--and this is very true--if you spend time on using that card to spend the $500 on my MC, then you arent getting a cash back on some other card you would have been using instead.
Ok yeah, but IS the $25 cash back you get actually BETTER for you than 5,000 AA miles?
I somehow think it is NOT.
Put it this way: My friend booked a trip to Africa for this summer using 75,000 AA miles to get there via London. (FYI: traveling to London in summer is harder to get with award miles and very expensive if you paid for the flight outright) 75,000 miles. Ok, well, that's 5,000 miles x 15. You said if you spent your money on a cash back card instead of my MC AA deal I liked, you would get say $25. $25x15 is $375.
The ticket on AA and its partners was priced at well over $2,000 Rt economy. That's a LOT more 'cash back' you'd have to get than just $25. That's a lot more than $375. It was $2000. You'd need a TON of cash back deals!
This is why 5,000 miles MAY be worth more than the $25 cash here.
Another way would be to take a look (as a comparison only) at what it costs to BUY 5,000 miles at AA.com. I think it's a bit more than $25.
OR, if you just got an economy ticket somewhere say, BOS-Vail, CO for a luxurious ski trip (granted you would have to book well in advance to snag that award, but it exists and I've done it), you'd be spending a lot more than a couple hundred dollars for the ticket gained from cash back card rebates. Your $25 gained on that cash back card you are using did not give you those extra 5,000 AA miles I got for spending all my money on the AA Mastercard... So your $25= my 5,000 miles again. A 25,000 mile econ std award is 5 x 5,000 miles. $25x 5 is $125. Case and point here: I would argue that NO ticket to VAIL, CO is going to cost $125. So if you got cash back you wont get to fly there that cheaply! In fact the cheapest I have ever seen it in off season is about $350 from where I live in the east cost (BOS).
Even flying on some short regional jet cramped mid-day business trip from nowhere to nowhere is going to run you at least $200 Rt. that's more $25's. But it's still only 25,000 miles!
So, getting 5,000 miles is better than getting $25 if you play the miles game right.
But you said this is about getting miles, period. You meant that you wish to get to that bonus triggering threashold as fast as possible and then rinse, lather and repeat. Ok, I respect that (and currently, citi is like the only major bank that still allows this churn--United's chase visa stopped it last feb) but again, getting to 750 is not THAT far from getting to 250, and if the deal DID suddenly die like the chase visa did for some people who were in mid churn heaven, then wouldnt it have at least been better to have reaped as MANY MILES PER CARD as possible first? Again, it does come down to if you think you can spend $750 quickly and conveniently and for the most gain...
2) and I'm only on #2...
I mentioned home depot gift cards in my earlier scenerio. Ok, in case you or anyone here is confused... these store cards are NOT run the same way those 'gift cards' I think you are talking about. You are possibly thinking of bank gift cards or simon mall gift cards, etc. Yes, those can stink--BUT if you are proactive and read the fine print and do everything the right way, you do NOT lose the money there either! DON'T let them keep that remaining 30cents on each card. DON'T let it expire or run into a fee laiden period because you failed to empty it. DON'T pay for it or pay a fee that makes a miles gain become 'cost prohibitive' (I always loved that phrase). Gift cards, or GC, as i used to call them, stopped being good in FT land a few years ago when charter one, national city and wachovia visa buxx among others sorta fell out of ease of use. When USAA bank stopped giving out free online or telephone cash advances and when limits and intra bank rules and harsh policy started freezing up funds of people like us who bought tons of them but now had to wait for some no name bank to issue us a check somday so we could pay our credit card back. I used to put the money I cashed out from them into a high-yeild interest savings account for a month, get some miles for the GC purchase AND get a few bucks in ineterst payments too! Oh those were the days... especially when none of them charged ANY fees! (charter one in its beginning) And I think one of the last vestiges of any decent gift card out there was the AMEX traveler's cheque card... after ATM fees and some other costs, you would yeild about 2700 Starwood points for about $30. I figured that a room at the Westin Maui (12,000 points per night) for about 4 of these 'runs' was well worth the $120 in costs! ($30x4) Oh yeah, that room was worth more than $120 per night!
It should be remembered that store cards like the Home Depot gift cards DO NOT cost to get shipped to you, they do not expire and they have no fees inside the card or losses if not used, etc. Sure, those silly store-bought AMEX gift cards you see at the supermarket check out register do, and that's a huge rip off, and oh yeah, if you buy a gift card of any kind, you are letting the store have your money early, but at the same time, the gift card gives you freedom to buy whatever you want when you want it in the store!
If you WERE in need of things from stores like home depot, like so many here may be, then this works out! If you were to say, log into an airline web site mall and saw some promo stating you MUST spend $300 THIS WEEK in order to get a 10x bonus deal on home depot purchases, then buying a gift card with them is way better than being forced into buying a new skill saw you really didnt need just to get the miles! My point here is that you can, with a home depot store gift card, fulfil the requirements of the short-term mall promo buy spending what they ask of you in the time frame, but still have the ability to control what you buy with it and when you buy it! And with no shipping costs that that heavy saw would have incurred. Why, you could have long since earned your 3000 miles from that promo but still be carrying around the store gift card to go buy something at home depot when you need it. If you don't lose the thing, it's money already put aside for the purchase you are going to do anyway. Just dont lose it! (don't get hit by a bus, slip on soap, lose your wallet, lose that phone number of your date tonight or lose your Patriots' Play off tickets either! Live life but be in control of it too!)
PS: if you buy at BestBuy.com you can do store pick up and if you buy for your office at Staples, they give free shipping if it's over $50, so those are great ways to do this too--if you get lots of office supplies anyway or are already in the market for that new HD TV
I got to such stores as the ones I keep babbling about--and yes, this post is way long but it has all the crap we need to talk about in it and so if you (plr) end up benefitting from it you cant bust on me there. I use the airline malls to get miles via both their standard offers on shopping thru them and by taking advantage of promos on those mall sites. So if anything, I am in it for my miles more than anyone, because I even get mad at friends of mine who don't yet know about using the airline malls! I'm like, "Dude, you STILL get to the same store's web site online, but thru the genius of portal marketing, you simply need to do a few extra click to get there via your favorite airline! It's a freakin no brainer, and if you already buy at those stores all the time anyway, why arent you doing it??? It's FREE miles! You just need to play their game!" Some still don't get it.
And yeah I can still cancel that AA MC when I reach the $750, and then churn for a new one just like you said. Quickly.
Buying gift cards or no, I say using the airline mall works wonders. It will, if you are say, buying for Christmas or birthdays, certainly give you plenty of ways to spend $750 on a AA Mastercard within a freakin week if you want to. unless you consume nothing, you will probably do this faster than you think.
heck, you could even tell a friend: Dude, that wide screen TV you want at bestbuy is $750 right? Well I'll buy it with my credit card and have them ship it to you if you let me earn the miles. I'll give you dinner or $10 for it! Whadya say, man?" Your friend would say, YEAH! Sure, go ahead!
So he gives you the CASH, and you get 750 miles for making the charge, and whatever the bestbuy airline mall deal is this month... I think it's 2:1 at AA and NWA's malls, so that's another 1500 miles just for buying your buddy some dinner.
Worth it?
well, you could take $25 and buy him a few whoppers instead.
3) universal gift certs or cards.
Ok, these have a cost. that's because they provide convenience. convenience costs money. WHY PAY for a cert like this? It used to be something people here in FT land figured out ways to make many miles from, but right now it costs too much to get what they give. To PAY for a piece of paper? I agree with ya there... what a sham! I don't use those now that the whole system is skewed. Plus they figured us out anyway.
So here's some more on the subject broken down by some of your points within your post above. Yes, like I said, it depends on each persons' needs, but here we go:
1) OK, I claimed getting the AA mastercard spend $750 get 25k is better than the AA mastercard spend $250 get 20k and here's why (for the sake of this, I'll call the $750/25k AA deal "my MC" or "my card":
Sure, you can get to the bonus faster with the other card, but you can still do this with mine. Let's say we both JUST wanted to use the card to get the threashold of money spent and grab the bonus miles. There, done. Cancel it and move on once you reach the necessary spending amont. Ok well if that's true, then no, I am NOT using it as a financial vehicle. I too am using it to get miles. Period. I just know I'll spend another $500 pretty quickly and this will give me that extra 5,000 miles. And again, it's NOT 'buying 5000 miles for $500.' It's different. I know I can spend $750 just as fast as I could spend $250 so that's why this is a no brainer. If we were talking about the difference between, say, spending $250 and $3,000 then that mayu be a different story (but it could still be possible, especially if the mile incentive raises a special eyebrow. When such an offer exists please let me know!
) Anyway, you said--and this is very true--if you spend time on using that card to spend the $500 on my MC, then you arent getting a cash back on some other card you would have been using instead.
Ok yeah, but IS the $25 cash back you get actually BETTER for you than 5,000 AA miles?
I somehow think it is NOT.
Put it this way: My friend booked a trip to Africa for this summer using 75,000 AA miles to get there via London. (FYI: traveling to London in summer is harder to get with award miles and very expensive if you paid for the flight outright) 75,000 miles. Ok, well, that's 5,000 miles x 15. You said if you spent your money on a cash back card instead of my MC AA deal I liked, you would get say $25. $25x15 is $375.
The ticket on AA and its partners was priced at well over $2,000 Rt economy. That's a LOT more 'cash back' you'd have to get than just $25. That's a lot more than $375. It was $2000. You'd need a TON of cash back deals!
This is why 5,000 miles MAY be worth more than the $25 cash here.
Another way would be to take a look (as a comparison only) at what it costs to BUY 5,000 miles at AA.com. I think it's a bit more than $25.
OR, if you just got an economy ticket somewhere say, BOS-Vail, CO for a luxurious ski trip (granted you would have to book well in advance to snag that award, but it exists and I've done it), you'd be spending a lot more than a couple hundred dollars for the ticket gained from cash back card rebates. Your $25 gained on that cash back card you are using did not give you those extra 5,000 AA miles I got for spending all my money on the AA Mastercard... So your $25= my 5,000 miles again. A 25,000 mile econ std award is 5 x 5,000 miles. $25x 5 is $125. Case and point here: I would argue that NO ticket to VAIL, CO is going to cost $125. So if you got cash back you wont get to fly there that cheaply! In fact the cheapest I have ever seen it in off season is about $350 from where I live in the east cost (BOS).
Even flying on some short regional jet cramped mid-day business trip from nowhere to nowhere is going to run you at least $200 Rt. that's more $25's. But it's still only 25,000 miles!
So, getting 5,000 miles is better than getting $25 if you play the miles game right.
But you said this is about getting miles, period. You meant that you wish to get to that bonus triggering threashold as fast as possible and then rinse, lather and repeat. Ok, I respect that (and currently, citi is like the only major bank that still allows this churn--United's chase visa stopped it last feb) but again, getting to 750 is not THAT far from getting to 250, and if the deal DID suddenly die like the chase visa did for some people who were in mid churn heaven, then wouldnt it have at least been better to have reaped as MANY MILES PER CARD as possible first? Again, it does come down to if you think you can spend $750 quickly and conveniently and for the most gain...
2) and I'm only on #2...
I mentioned home depot gift cards in my earlier scenerio. Ok, in case you or anyone here is confused... these store cards are NOT run the same way those 'gift cards' I think you are talking about. You are possibly thinking of bank gift cards or simon mall gift cards, etc. Yes, those can stink--BUT if you are proactive and read the fine print and do everything the right way, you do NOT lose the money there either! DON'T let them keep that remaining 30cents on each card. DON'T let it expire or run into a fee laiden period because you failed to empty it. DON'T pay for it or pay a fee that makes a miles gain become 'cost prohibitive' (I always loved that phrase
). Gift cards, or GC, as i used to call them, stopped being good in FT land a few years ago when charter one, national city and wachovia visa buxx among others sorta fell out of ease of use. When USAA bank stopped giving out free online or telephone cash advances and when limits and intra bank rules and harsh policy started freezing up funds of people like us who bought tons of them but now had to wait for some no name bank to issue us a check somday so we could pay our credit card back. I used to put the money I cashed out from them into a high-yeild interest savings account for a month, get some miles for the GC purchase AND get a few bucks in ineterst payments too! Oh those were the days... especially when none of them charged ANY fees! (charter one in its beginning) And I think one of the last vestiges of any decent gift card out there was the AMEX traveler's cheque card... after ATM fees and some other costs, you would yeild about 2700 Starwood points for about $30. I figured that a room at the Westin Maui (12,000 points per night) for about 4 of these 'runs' was well worth the $120 in costs! ($30x4) Oh yeah, that room was worth more than $120 per night! It should be remembered that store cards like the Home Depot gift cards DO NOT cost to get shipped to you, they do not expire and they have no fees inside the card or losses if not used, etc. Sure, those silly store-bought AMEX gift cards you see at the supermarket check out register do, and that's a huge rip off, and oh yeah, if you buy a gift card of any kind, you are letting the store have your money early, but at the same time, the gift card gives you freedom to buy whatever you want when you want it in the store!
If you WERE in need of things from stores like home depot, like so many here may be, then this works out! If you were to say, log into an airline web site mall and saw some promo stating you MUST spend $300 THIS WEEK in order to get a 10x bonus deal on home depot purchases, then buying a gift card with them is way better than being forced into buying a new skill saw you really didnt need just to get the miles! My point here is that you can, with a home depot store gift card, fulfil the requirements of the short-term mall promo buy spending what they ask of you in the time frame, but still have the ability to control what you buy with it and when you buy it! And with no shipping costs that that heavy saw would have incurred. Why, you could have long since earned your 3000 miles from that promo but still be carrying around the store gift card to go buy something at home depot when you need it. If you don't lose the thing, it's money already put aside for the purchase you are going to do anyway. Just dont lose it! (don't get hit by a bus, slip on soap, lose your wallet, lose that phone number of your date tonight or lose your Patriots' Play off tickets either! Live life but be in control of it too!)
PS: if you buy at BestBuy.com you can do store pick up and if you buy for your office at Staples, they give free shipping if it's over $50, so those are great ways to do this too--if you get lots of office supplies anyway or are already in the market for that new HD TV
I got to such stores as the ones I keep babbling about--and yes, this post is way long but it has all the crap we need to talk about in it and so if you (plr) end up benefitting from it you cant bust on me there
. I use the airline malls to get miles via both their standard offers on shopping thru them and by taking advantage of promos on those mall sites. So if anything, I am in it for my miles more than anyone, because I even get mad at friends of mine who don't yet know about using the airline malls! I'm like, "Dude, you STILL get to the same store's web site online, but thru the genius of portal marketing, you simply need to do a few extra click to get there via your favorite airline! It's a freakin no brainer, and if you already buy at those stores all the time anyway, why arent you doing it??? It's FREE miles! You just need to play their game!" Some still don't get it. And yeah I can still cancel that AA MC when I reach the $750, and then churn for a new one just like you said. Quickly.
Buying gift cards or no, I say using the airline mall works wonders. It will, if you are say, buying for Christmas or birthdays, certainly give you plenty of ways to spend $750 on a AA Mastercard within a freakin week if you want to. unless you consume nothing, you will probably do this faster than you think.
heck, you could even tell a friend: Dude, that wide screen TV you want at bestbuy is $750 right? Well I'll buy it with my credit card and have them ship it to you if you let me earn the miles. I'll give you dinner or $10 for it! Whadya say, man?" Your friend would say, YEAH! Sure, go ahead!
So he gives you the CASH, and you get 750 miles for making the charge, and whatever the bestbuy airline mall deal is this month... I think it's 2:1 at AA and NWA's malls, so that's another 1500 miles just for buying your buddy some dinner.
Worth it?
well, you could take $25 and buy him a few whoppers instead.
3) universal gift certs or cards.
Ok, these have a cost. that's because they provide convenience. convenience costs money. WHY PAY for a cert like this? It used to be something people here in FT land figured out ways to make many miles from, but right now it costs too much to get what they give. To PAY for a piece of paper? I agree with ya there... what a sham! I don't use those now that the whole system is skewed. Plus they figured us out anyway.
Some interesting reading about what a moneymaker gift cards are. from Wall Street Journal.
Feb 2, 2008, 6:39 am
#21
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: BOS, MHT
Programs: AA ltg, B6, DL, UA, AS, SPG/Marriott Plt, HH, Hyatt
Posts: 10,052
LOL pushback--that wasn't my intent
But anyway, All's I'm sayin' is that I think it's possible to do many easy things to spend $750 quickly and still adhere to the churn speed you are talking about. I was merely showing a few fast ways that work for moi.
I do also think that the merchants and card issuers probably would like it better if we did that sort of thing with these AA cards anyway. Maybe they are saying something like, "Well, if they're gonna churn, we might as well get 'em to buy more stuff in the process." Ok, I'll play!
But anyway, All's I'm sayin' is that I think it's possible to do many easy things to spend $750 quickly and still adhere to the churn speed you are talking about. I was merely showing a few fast ways that work for moi.
I do also think that the merchants and card issuers probably would like it better if we did that sort of thing with these AA cards anyway. Maybe they are saying something like, "Well, if they're gonna churn, we might as well get 'em to buy more stuff in the process." Ok, I'll play!
Feb 2, 2008, 9:51 am
#22
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Washington, D.C.
Programs: AA PLT (MM), UA 1K, Marriott Ti, IHG Diamond
Posts: 929
Ok, OK. You win! Just on sheer volume.
Some interesting reading about what a moneymaker gift cards are. from Wall Street Journal.
Some interesting reading about what a moneymaker gift cards are. from Wall Street Journal.
LOL pushback--that wasn't my intent
But anyway, All's I'm sayin' is that I think it's possible to do many easy things to spend $750 quickly and still adhere to the churn speed you are talking about. I was merely showing a few fast ways that work for moi.
I do also think that the merchants and card issuers probably would like it better if we did that sort of thing with these AA cards anyway. Maybe they are saying something like, "Well, if they're gonna churn, we might as well get 'em to buy more stuff in the process." Ok, I'll play!
But anyway, All's I'm sayin' is that I think it's possible to do many easy things to spend $750 quickly and still adhere to the churn speed you are talking about. I was merely showing a few fast ways that work for moi.
I do also think that the merchants and card issuers probably would like it better if we did that sort of thing with these AA cards anyway. Maybe they are saying something like, "Well, if they're gonna churn, we might as well get 'em to buy more stuff in the process." Ok, I'll play!
Feb 2, 2008, 1:36 pm
#23
Join Date: Jul 2006
Programs: Top Tiers for 2013 AA, MR, PC Thanks FT!
Posts: 712
Just checked the AAdvantage shopping portal. You can buy The Home Depot gift cards through giftcertificates.com However, if I remember correctly - you can't redeem a supercertificate for them.
Feb 12, 2008, 4:09 am
#24
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2002
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the northwest site lets you earn miles from HD GC purchases but the AA site does not unless you do it via gift cert.com as this poster says.
Feb 24, 2008, 9:25 pm
#25
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2002
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incidently, my wife's new AA citi MC with the "spend $750 in first 4 months, get 25k AA miles" dealio has ALREADY posted the sign on bonus and her card is just a month old, if that. She and I went shopping for more home improvement stuff that we needed anyway:
Starting Balance 1,029
02/18/08 NEW CITICARD MBR BONUS MILES 25,000
02/18/08 CBAA WORLD MASTERCARD PURCH 1,140
Total Miles Posted 26,140
ENDING BALANCE 27,169
Time to churn in card #2, eh?
MM
Starting Balance 1,029
02/18/08 NEW CITICARD MBR BONUS MILES 25,000
02/18/08 CBAA WORLD MASTERCARD PURCH 1,140
Total Miles Posted 26,140
ENDING BALANCE 27,169
Time to churn in card #2, eh?
MM
Feb 24, 2008, 11:29 pm
#26
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: SFO, SJC, OAK, LVK AA Lifetime Plat 2MM, LUV A-List, Hyatt Gold, SPG Lifetime Gold, Commercial Pilot (not employed by airlines)
Posts: 1,531
incidently, my wife's new AA citi MC with the "spend $750 in first 4 months, get 25k AA miles" dealio has ALREADY posted the sign on bonus and her card is just a month old, if that. She and I went shopping for more home improvement stuff that we needed anyway:
Starting Balance 1,029
02/18/08 NEW CITICARD MBR BONUS MILES 25,000
02/18/08 CBAA WORLD MASTERCARD PURCH 1,140
Total Miles Posted 26,140
ENDING BALANCE 27,169
Time to churn in card #2, eh?
MM
Starting Balance 1,029
02/18/08 NEW CITICARD MBR BONUS MILES 25,000
02/18/08 CBAA WORLD MASTERCARD PURCH 1,140
Total Miles Posted 26,140
ENDING BALANCE 27,169
Time to churn in card #2, eh?
MM
Feb 25, 2008, 7:30 am
#27
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: BOS, MHT
Programs: AA ltg, B6, DL, UA, AS, SPG/Marriott Plt, HH, Hyatt
Posts: 10,052
Feb 25, 2008, 12:21 pm
#28
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Modesto, CA (90 miles from any real airport)
Programs: SPG Plat (3.2MM LT), Hilton Gold, AA LT Plat (3.2MM), Hertz 5*, US Mint MVP
Posts: 638
incidently, my wife's new AA citi MC with the "spend $750 in first 4 months, get 25k AA miles" dealio has ALREADY posted the sign on bonus and her card is just a month old, if that. She and I went shopping for more home improvement stuff that we needed anyway:
Starting Balance 1,029
02/18/08 NEW CITICARD MBR BONUS MILES 25,000
02/18/08 CBAA WORLD MASTERCARD PURCH 1,140
Total Miles Posted 26,140
ENDING BALANCE 27,169
Time to churn in card #2, eh?
MM
Starting Balance 1,029
02/18/08 NEW CITICARD MBR BONUS MILES 25,000
02/18/08 CBAA WORLD MASTERCARD PURCH 1,140
Total Miles Posted 26,140
ENDING BALANCE 27,169
Time to churn in card #2, eh?
MMJim
Feb 25, 2008, 1:19 pm
#30
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Join Date: Nov 2002
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the miles I mentioned in the bonus and CC miles awarded to AA were copy pasted right from the AAdvantage account itself/ They be in there.
time to wait a bit and get another card.
time to wait a bit and get another card.