Chinese "tea ceremony" scam, "see my art" and other scams
Apr 6, 2006, 4:42 pm
#16
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 211
Mr. Zhu was recently in Hangzhou and had some Xin Nian Cha (or fresh new years tea). Good Good Stuff. Amazing really. Just splendid. Mr. Zhu paid RMB 50/glass and thought it very reasonable.
Still Mr. Zhu thinks you got fleeced. If the girl was in on it, then her buying the box was just to return later. Let Mr. Zhu guess: she was short on cash so you paid the rest?
Still Mr. Zhu thinks you got fleeced. If the girl was in on it, then her buying the box was just to return later. Let Mr. Zhu guess: she was short on cash so you paid the rest?
Apr 6, 2006, 4:50 pm
#17
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Riverside, CA
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Posts: 1,581
Originally Posted by MrZhu
Mr. Zhu was recently in Hangzhou and had some Xin Nian Cha (or fresh new years tea). Good Good Stuff. Amazing really. Just splendid. Mr. Zhu paid RMB 50/glass and thought it very reasonable.
Still Mr. Zhu thinks you got fleeced. If the girl was in on it, then her buying the box was just to return later. Let Mr. Zhu guess: she was short on cash so you paid the rest?
Still Mr. Zhu thinks you got fleeced. If the girl was in on it, then her buying the box was just to return later. Let Mr. Zhu guess: she was short on cash so you paid the rest?
Apr 6, 2006, 5:33 pm
#18
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 321
I suspect the girl is in on the whole thing. Tea is such a popular part of Chinese culture, it is almost impossible to find a chinese who doesn't know what a tea ceremony is (especially for an educated teacher). For her to say that she has no idea and to suggest that you try it out is rather suspicious.
I wouldn't call this a scam though, you may have been charged highly inflated prices, but you did get some great tea service. A scam is when they advertised great tea service, then sold you crab grass (which is what happened to mine colleague when he travelled to GuangZhou).
I wouldn't call this a scam though, you may have been charged highly inflated prices, but you did get some great tea service. A scam is when they advertised great tea service, then sold you crab grass (which is what happened to mine colleague when he travelled to GuangZhou).
Last edited by PCheng; Apr 6, 2006 at 5:38 pm
Apr 6, 2006, 10:14 pm
#19
Moderator: Luxury Hotels and FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Palo Alto, California,USA
Posts: 17,854
It's a scam and I'd feel very comfortable calling it that. Right up there with the "I'm an artist, see my artwork" scam. Check out the China board on the Lonely Planet forums for threads on this.
Apr 7, 2006, 12:00 pm
#20
Join Date: May 2005
Location: London, England, United Kingdom
Programs: Marriott (Lifetime Titantium), whatever other programs as benefits make sense.
Posts: 1,920
I got hit by the same tea ceremony scam. It's pretty common, but very well run. In fact, I didn't even know I'd been scammed until a few days later when I was alerted to the fact that it was a scam (later backed up by reading about it in the China Lonely Planet guide).
Here's my story:
Leaving the Forbidden City I met two Chinese students who were studying English, Shadow and Coco. They asked if they could talk with me to practice their English. I agreed. Shadow and Coco studied just outside of Beijing, and had a day off as their teachers were having a conference. Coco had never seen the Forbidden City, so they had come into the city to see it.
We went to Tinanmen square, all the while chatting in English about my life and their lives. Shadow suggested checking out old Beijing. We walked through a pharmacy with some really expensive ginseng and checked out the really old buildings.
Coco suggested going to see a tea ceremony, as the tea festival was now on. We went to a tea house that had been in operation for over 200 years. The tea ceremony was performed by a young lady. She poured us different kinds of teas, and explained where they came from and their uses. When she spoke, she almost was singing. As harsh and unwelcoming as the Chinese can sometimes sound, it sounded melodic coming from this cute, button nosed girl as she poured us more tea.
However, no amount of melody could hide the disharmony of getting the 2461 RMB bill (around $330). Coco, Shadow and I were all shocked at the price. I ended up picking up the tab, as I remember what $110 a person would have done to my budget when I was student, and that was back in North America. Imagine the dent in a Chinese student's budget.
Shadow and Coco, by way of thanks, took me out to a restaurant for Beijing duck (also known in North America as Peking Duck), and then we walked more around old Beijing and the Hutong. After spending the whole afternoon together, I parted ways with Coco and Shadow and headed back to my hotel.
Was I scammed? I had a few doubts when the bill originally came, but after spending another 2 hours with Coco and Shadow, I figured they were on the level. It was only 2 days later when hearing about the EXACT same thing happening to a fellow traveller, and then reading about the EXACT details of the scam in another backpackers Lonely Planet that I realized I was taken advantage of.
The amazing things about it, though, is that I am not at all mad about it. It was such a pleasent afternoon and it was nice to have some local guides to the city. The scam was so expertly run that I didn't know it was even happening. Really, I was pretty stupid for not asking about the price of the tea ceremony before taking part. And what's $300 to me?
Greg
Here's my story:
Leaving the Forbidden City I met two Chinese students who were studying English, Shadow and Coco. They asked if they could talk with me to practice their English. I agreed. Shadow and Coco studied just outside of Beijing, and had a day off as their teachers were having a conference. Coco had never seen the Forbidden City, so they had come into the city to see it.
We went to Tinanmen square, all the while chatting in English about my life and their lives. Shadow suggested checking out old Beijing. We walked through a pharmacy with some really expensive ginseng and checked out the really old buildings.
Coco suggested going to see a tea ceremony, as the tea festival was now on. We went to a tea house that had been in operation for over 200 years. The tea ceremony was performed by a young lady. She poured us different kinds of teas, and explained where they came from and their uses. When she spoke, she almost was singing. As harsh and unwelcoming as the Chinese can sometimes sound, it sounded melodic coming from this cute, button nosed girl as she poured us more tea.
However, no amount of melody could hide the disharmony of getting the 2461 RMB bill (around $330). Coco, Shadow and I were all shocked at the price. I ended up picking up the tab, as I remember what $110 a person would have done to my budget when I was student, and that was back in North America. Imagine the dent in a Chinese student's budget.
Shadow and Coco, by way of thanks, took me out to a restaurant for Beijing duck (also known in North America as Peking Duck), and then we walked more around old Beijing and the Hutong. After spending the whole afternoon together, I parted ways with Coco and Shadow and headed back to my hotel.
Was I scammed? I had a few doubts when the bill originally came, but after spending another 2 hours with Coco and Shadow, I figured they were on the level. It was only 2 days later when hearing about the EXACT same thing happening to a fellow traveller, and then reading about the EXACT details of the scam in another backpackers Lonely Planet that I realized I was taken advantage of.
The amazing things about it, though, is that I am not at all mad about it. It was such a pleasent afternoon and it was nice to have some local guides to the city. The scam was so expertly run that I didn't know it was even happening. Really, I was pretty stupid for not asking about the price of the tea ceremony before taking part. And what's $300 to me?
Greg
Apr 7, 2006, 1:00 pm
#21
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 6,359
Geez, those Chinese people must laugh aloud everyday at the fact that we're all such suckers if that many of us fall for crap like this. It was definitely a scam. Tea is not $100 or $300 in a place where you can get dinner for $2. You probably got tea made from Lipton teabags................ 
I've been tried to take advantage of several times in China, but have never fallen for it (I think). I figure if somebody is being that nice to me, they are either a hooker or they are trying to scam me. I don't run into nice people like that in the US, why would I think I would run into nice people like that in China?
I've been tried to take advantage of several times in China, but have never fallen for it (I think). I figure if somebody is being that nice to me, they are either a hooker or they are trying to scam me. I don't run into nice people like that in the US, why would I think I would run into nice people like that in China?
Apr 7, 2006, 1:12 pm
#22
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: 99654
Programs: Many
Posts: 6,450
Originally Posted by gregorygrady
I figure if somebody is being that nice to me, they are either a hooker or they are trying to scam me. I don't run into nice people like that in the US, why would I think I would run into nice people like that in China?
or may be their scam simply didnt work. but overall I found people
very helpful.
Personally I would never go to a restaurant, bar or a tea house with someone
I just met. Unless I know them through some close friends.
Apr 7, 2006, 1:23 pm
#23
Suspended
Join Date: Nov 1999
Posts: 24,153
Had something similiar last Thurs. After being approached to buy anything and everything Except maybe the Brooklyn Bridge ( give them some time they'll figure a way to sell to Us also) a girl comes over and speaks in English of cause I answered in French (that I dont speak, asking if she spoke French) anyway she followed along saying its simply her day off.
I showed her a slip of paper with some areas written down and says Im heading in the wrong way and takes me back to Tianemen and then past Mao and with Mao to your back to right of it. It was an area filled with small stores of all kinds, loved the ones auctioning off Jade (right) just like the Electronic ones in Spitfields in London. I was heading or trying to , to the Hutong area near the Hyatt.
Anyway after walking around for awhile we walk into a store as she wants some tea to drink and passed the aisle of whatever to a flight of steps that goes Upstairs. Thats when I stopped her and said 'Im not going up" didnt know about the scams as I didnt read or have Lonely Planet. I just didnt like the idea of not being able to make a Stage Left ASAP if I needed to.
We walked around some more,about 2 hrs all in total now, then she wanted something to drink , OK so it cost me for a bottle of Orange whatever a few Yuan, worth it as I really liked walking around the Old part with all those Stalls. She kept telling me she was hungry, I simply answered I had just finished eating before we met, how about Tea I pulled out my 2 water bottles I had and said , by day its Only water.
Im usually skeptical in nature, like buying those Gucci Bags that are the real thing, I answered yea and Im a woman only dressed like a man guess how much this beard I have cost me to have transplanted, it got a laugh out of them.
the only thing I did buy was 2 Dragon Baseball Caps for 20Y for both. Some wanted 120 for 1 telling me its hand stiched and costs them 100Y. So I stopped back at some of the places and offered to sell them the 2 I had for 90 each as it will cost them less then what they paid and after all it was hand stiched. They passed, I said I can sell both for 170Y but I would be lossing 10Y they laughed , some said they were happy that most people werent as smart as I was, otherwise they would be out of business.
I showed her a slip of paper with some areas written down and says Im heading in the wrong way and takes me back to Tianemen and then past Mao and with Mao to your back to right of it. It was an area filled with small stores of all kinds, loved the ones auctioning off Jade (right) just like the Electronic ones in Spitfields in London. I was heading or trying to , to the Hutong area near the Hyatt.
Anyway after walking around for awhile we walk into a store as she wants some tea to drink and passed the aisle of whatever to a flight of steps that goes Upstairs. Thats when I stopped her and said 'Im not going up" didnt know about the scams as I didnt read or have Lonely Planet. I just didnt like the idea of not being able to make a Stage Left ASAP if I needed to.
We walked around some more,about 2 hrs all in total now, then she wanted something to drink , OK so it cost me for a bottle of Orange whatever a few Yuan, worth it as I really liked walking around the Old part with all those Stalls. She kept telling me she was hungry, I simply answered I had just finished eating before we met, how about Tea I pulled out my 2 water bottles I had and said , by day its Only water.
Im usually skeptical in nature, like buying those Gucci Bags that are the real thing, I answered yea and Im a woman only dressed like a man guess how much this beard I have cost me to have transplanted, it got a laugh out of them.
the only thing I did buy was 2 Dragon Baseball Caps for 20Y for both. Some wanted 120 for 1 telling me its hand stiched and costs them 100Y. So I stopped back at some of the places and offered to sell them the 2 I had for 90 each as it will cost them less then what they paid and after all it was hand stiched. They passed, I said I can sell both for 170Y but I would be lossing 10Y they laughed , some said they were happy that most people werent as smart as I was, otherwise they would be out of business.
Last edited by craz; Apr 7, 2006 at 1:32 pm
Apr 7, 2006, 1:40 pm
#25
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 211
Originally Posted by gregorygrady
Tea is not $100 or $300 in a place where you can get dinner for $2.
Mr. Zhu also will note that while you can get dinner for $2 in Beijing you can also get it for $2 in New York (very similar dish actually, Mr. Zhu likes the fried noodle cart outside the lower Manhattan courthouse). MrZhu knows many restaurants in Beijing where you can't eat for less than $200/head.
Regarding who the greater "sucker" is MrZhu thinks it is a silly debate. Still, sometimes MrZhu questions why the Central Bank of China loans so much of their tea proceeds to the U.S. mortgage market.
Apr 7, 2006, 1:49 pm
#26
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 6,359
Ahhhh, MrZhu sounds like a smart man. I probably should have worded it better. The tea that these "suckers" are getting conned into buying for $100-$300 is NOT $100-$300 tea.
And yes, we "suckers" over here laugh at you "suckers" over in China for subsidizing our recent housing boom of the last 3 years. Worry not though, you will get the last laugh at us American suckers when your government stops buying so many US bonds and we suckers are stuck footing 15% interest rates on our future mortgages....
And yes, we "suckers" over here laugh at you "suckers" over in China for subsidizing our recent housing boom of the last 3 years. Worry not though, you will get the last laugh at us American suckers when your government stops buying so many US bonds and we suckers are stuck footing 15% interest rates on our future mortgages....
Apr 29, 2006, 2:52 am
#27
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Asia/Europe
Programs: CX, OZ, MU (+AY, DL), Shangri-La, Hilton
Posts: 7,236
This morning after a coffee and a stroll on the Bund I happened to attract the interest of four Chinese art students from Beijing... 
Very polite, fluent in several languages including my obscure one ( 
) and "celebrating in Shanghai". It's a pity I couldn't follow them to their art exhibition as I had a train to catch... Thanks FT.
Very polite, fluent in several languages including my obscure one ( ) and "celebrating in Shanghai". It's a pity I couldn't follow them to their art exhibition as I had a train to catch... Thanks FT.
Originally Posted by RichardInSF
It's a scam and I'd feel very comfortable calling it that. Right up there with the "I'm an artist, see my artwork" scam. Check out the China board on the Lonely Planet forums for threads on this.
May 5, 2006, 8:23 am
#29
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: London
Posts: 18,398
Thanks for sharing your experience. Although I’ve now googled this scam and seen it documented on other websites, your example is still the best at showcasing how easy it is to get sucked into this kind of thing, and how sophisticated and subtle the artists can be, no matter how jaded/precautious/savvy we think we are.
I’m sorry your experience cost you a sizeable chunk of dollars, and even if the tea isn’t of the quality you’d hope for, the craftsmanship and artistry of the lady who led you there was exquisite (with the distance I have from what happened, I can’t help but have a certain admiration for her skill in manipulating you). I feel sorry that the opportunities available to her are so limited that she is compelled to ‘work’ in this way. Someone of her intelligence and charisma deserves so much better.
Both of you have been screwed by the same circumstances, but from what I’ve read, it could have been much worse. My sincere commiserations.
I’m sorry your experience cost you a sizeable chunk of dollars, and even if the tea isn’t of the quality you’d hope for, the craftsmanship and artistry of the lady who led you there was exquisite (with the distance I have from what happened, I can’t help but have a certain admiration for her skill in manipulating you). I feel sorry that the opportunities available to her are so limited that she is compelled to ‘work’ in this way. Someone of her intelligence and charisma deserves so much better.
Both of you have been screwed by the same circumstances, but from what I’ve read, it could have been much worse. My sincere commiserations.
May 5, 2006, 8:59 am
#30
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Pre-9/11 America
Posts: 5,115
Originally Posted by Ted Striker
Plus, of course, the tea I had purchased.
I always come back with Longjing tea, procured through some of my associates who are able to get grades of Longjing tea that aren't even available on the market. I don't even want to know what the price might be, and I surely don't declare what I think it might be on my customs form (Sometimes it is good to be an ignorant laowai
) . Matter of fact, I am drinking a cup of it right now...it is absolutely wonderful!As others have said, good tea can range from expensive to "Ai-yaaaaa!" A long afternoon at a teahouse in Longjing or on the West Lake of Hangzhou can easily run up a bill of RMB1000 for two people. And this is what makes your whole affair seem mercenary to me: the fact that it was a party of two. Chinese tend to go out in groups, and going out as a couple is still very, very nouveau xifang, even in Beijing.