percysmith

Wow. Sorry to hear.

I think jiejie and 889 has covered the whose to blame bits but I wonder if Expedia issued the tickets as all AA stock (ie was your CA segment also issued under AA stock or did Expedia sell you two tickets?)

Anyway I will be reluctant to go trans-alliance on the same booking unless there's a very very big incentive to do it.

Your descriptions of how you were handled by AA and the PEK immigration authorities do not alter my generally negative predisposition towards them, as a non-guanxi counterparty.

jiejie

Detention rooms at the airport, family kept together. We're not talking Chinese prison cell here, nor rubber hose treatment.

anacapamalibu

Thats good...thought maybe they seperate male, female, juveniles for safety.

moyeung

from aa tariff rules:
MISSED CONNECTIONS
IN THE EVENT A PASSENGER MISSES AN ONWARD CONNECTING
FLIGHT ON WHICH SPACE HAS BEEN RESERVED BECAUSE THE
DELIVERING CARRIER DID NOT OPERATE ITS FLIGHT ACCORDING
TO SCHEDULE OR CHANGED THE SCHEDULE OF SUCH FLIGHT, THE
DELIVERING CARRIER WILL ARRANGE FOR THE CARRIAGE OF THE
PASSENGER OR MAKE INVOLUNTARY REFUND IN ACCORDANCE WITH
RULE 90 (REFUNDS).

definition of missed connection:
MISCONNECTION OCCURS AT A CONNECTING POINT WHEN A
PASSENGER HOLDING CONFIRMED SPACE ON AN ORIGINAL
RECEIVING CARRIER IS UNABLE TO USE SUCH CONFIRMED
SPACE BECAUSE THE DELIVERING CARRIER WAS UNABLE TO
DELIVER HIM TO THE CONNECTING POINT IN TIME TO
CONNECT WITH SUCH RECEIVING CARRIER'S FLIGHT.

so according to aa rules unless air china declared a force majeure event they are responsible for your onward connection

Andre

Hi Moyeung,

Thanks for bringing that to my attention, can't believe I didn't see that bit when I initially went through those rules myself.

What this means, from my understanding at least, is that the OP was correct in initially requesting that CA rebook him. In fact, he would have probably been in breach of his contract with AA if he had not done so. However, whether CA then complies with these AA rules or not does not affect AA's basic liability to the passenger for damages due to delay (as well as other causes) along the entire journey, as it is a carrier, namely the issuing carrier.

So, given the fact that CA refused to re-accommodate the stranded travelers, the OP can and should claim all out of pocket expenses from AA, who in turn have an excellent case for a claim against CA. Do you agree?

hkskyline

But is there a definition of a reasonable delay? I can't imagine a 1 minute late from schedule can result in a full compensation claim.

889

I suspect Air China will say that under industry standards it did operate its flight to schedule with just a ten-minute delay. Then it will say that even if it had arrived on the dot, the OP would still have missed the connection. That is, the "late arrival" didn't really cause the OP's difficulties.

Andre

For the OP, the relevant issue is not whether CA, AA, Beijing airport or anyone else was at fault (as long as it wasn't the OP himself of course), but rather who is liable to get him and family to MIA at the originally agreed cost and time. And AA is definitely liable for that.

I don't get your question in this context, but indeed I don't see how one could prove damages arising from a 1-minute delay.

OP and family reached their final ticketed destination of MIA over 24h behind schedule (delay). They spent thousands of dollars on additional air tickets, immigration fines etc. (damages).

hkskyline

Looking at the circumstances and length of delay, I would find it hard to argue in court to enforce the letter of the law and that CA is liable because of the "delay" under the following :

IN THE EVENT A PASSENGER MISSES AN ONWARD CONNECTING
FLIGHT ON WHICH SPACE HAS BEEN RESERVED BECAUSE THE
DELIVERING CARRIER DID NOT OPERATE ITS FLIGHT ACCORDING
TO SCHEDULE OR CHANGED THE SCHEDULE OF SUCH FLIGHT

I think there would be more sympathy if the delay was 3 hours rather than measured in minutes.

Andre

This is not what I am advocating at all. Please refer to this post.

moyeung

The rule is nothing about compensation for expenses, its whose responsibility to rebook the flights if the passenger misconnnects due to the delivering carriers fault. The problem here is that the CA flight arrived at a hardstand close to ontime but the OP's MCT was now significantly reduced due to taking a bus. So CA can claim an ontime arrival even though it didn't arrive at the terminal.

also is it possible since CA didn't issue a boarding pass in TPE that AA denied him boarding as he wasn't checked in for his onward flight and was declared a no show in PEK? The OP claimed that he didnt get to the front of the line until 30 mins before the sked dep time and according to AA tariff rules it was too late.

AA WILL
CANCEL THE RESERVATIONS OF ANY PASSENGER WHO FAILS TO
PRESENT HIMSELF FOR CHECK-IN AT THE BOARDING PASS
LIFTING POINT WITH THE APPROPRIATE BOARDING PASS AT
LEAST {X} 30 MINUTES FOR A DEPARTURE TO OR FROM AN
INTERNATIONAL DESTINATION, NOTWITHSTANDING THAT SUCH
PASSENGER MAY HAVE CHECK-IN FOR THE SAME FLIGHT AT
ANOTHER

moyeung

andre
it came under rule 80 in general international tariffs

CHUD

This is exactly what happened. 10min late arrival + 20min bus ride = 30min delay for me. When I arrived at the transfer desk, the lady called AA and gave them our names. When they replied with an immediate "NO" after hearing our names, it gave me the impression that our reservation was already cancelled.

Also when asking CA for reaccommodations, they looked up my flight and stated it was within the rules of not being late and thus misconnection was my fault. At the end, I told them that I didn't want any compensation or reacommodations, I just wanted documentation that I missed my flight because the CA flight was 10mins late to try to extend my TWOV from 24hrs to 48hrs but they also denied me. I got the feeling that they are fined by the government for issuing too many of these documents.

Loren Pechtel

It sounds like the real issue here is you were sold a ticket with a connection time that in reality can't be made. I would think your beef is with whoever sold that ticket.

moyeung

CHUD
found this on the Beijing airport website
5、What if tourists are not able to leave China within 72 hours due to special reasons?
72-hour visa-free transit foreign visitors who have to stay for more than 72 hours due to force majeure must apply for visas at Beijing Public Security Bureau.